From xpdf at wp.pl Fri Nov 16 08:33:44 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:33:44 +0100 Subject: [Tech] Jabber transport Message-ID: <473D55E8.5080507@wp.pl> Jabber is good idea to make a freenet faster & moore knowing. The protocol & servers is stable. Users & account are moore. many servers have SSL. plugins to popular communicators. Ach this idea is wonderfull. From sandos at home.se Fri Nov 16 08:39:29 2007 From: sandos at home.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?John_B=E4ckstrand?=) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:39:29 +0100 Subject: [Tech] Jabber transport In-Reply-To: <473D55E8.5080507@wp.pl> References: <473D55E8.5080507@wp.pl> Message-ID: <473D5741.4010605@home.se> xpdf wrote: > Jabber is good idea to make a freenet faster & moore knowing. The > protocol & servers is stable. Users & account are moore. many servers > have SSL. plugins to popular communicators. > > Ach this idea is wonderfull. What is the idea? Xmpp is wonderful for sure, but would you use it for refs or for actual transport? --- John B?ckstrand From xpdf at wp.pl Fri Nov 16 09:33:22 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 10:33:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech] Jabber transport In-Reply-To: <473D5741.4010605@home.se> References: <473D55E8.5080507@wp.pl> <473D5741.4010605@home.se> Message-ID: <473D63E2.4020307@wp.pl> John B?ckstrand pisze: > xpdf wrote: > >> Jabber is good idea to make a freenet faster & moore knowing. The >> protocol & servers is stable. Users & account are moore. many servers >> have SSL. plugins to popular communicators. >> >> Ach this idea is wonderfull. >> > > What is the idea? Xmpp is wonderful for sure, but would you use it for > refs or for actual transport? > for transport. many programists,many serwers. many users! From xpdf at wp.pl Fri Nov 16 10:49:33 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:49:33 +0100 Subject: [Tech] Jabber transport In-Reply-To: <473D63E2.4020307@wp.pl> References: <473D55E8.5080507@wp.pl> <473D5741.4010605@home.se> <473D63E2.4020307@wp.pl> Message-ID: <473D75BD.6010004@wp.pl> xpdf pisze: > John B?ckstrand pisze: > >> xpdf wrote: >> >> >>> Jabber is good idea to make a freenet faster & moore knowing. The >>> protocol & servers is stable. Users & account are moore. many servers >>> have SSL. plugins to popular communicators. >>> >>> Ach this idea is wonderfull. >>> >>> >> What is the idea? Xmpp is wonderful for sure, but would you use it for >> refs or for actual transport? >> >> > for transport. > many programists,many serwers. many users! I think if the psi have a PGP encrypt messages the users need a encrypt. Tor is not security. If write the plugins to psi or new communicator (is one in TK, many in java) The problem with freenet is slowly & less users. Jabber solve this problem. I think. In first phase can write a transport in server jabber. Exchange the freenet-files betwen users. Next write the client, use encrypt SSL in XML tree jabber. From xpdf at wp.pl Fri Nov 16 13:07:43 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:07:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech] I can't put my file Message-ID: <473D961F.6070005@wp.pl> I can't put my file to the free net CHK at q4s5Yb2RfHukxPiH0Bvkb-h-Rs1Bf0bg4LhAwz1Qv8M,lKClwaNDGc0-mcxN2KLHr3ytQSX4rdBtRIPoivQFq~g,AAIC--8 this file is cut there is zipped orginal. Why the system cut my file? (from web interface & python fcp) ./fcpput CHK at relSlowa rel-Slowa-w-pogoni-za-wrogiem.htm here is orginal http://dark-code.bulix.org/jgj8xu-61108 where is problem? From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org Fri Nov 16 13:10:06 2007 From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:10:06 +0000 Subject: [Tech] Jabber transport In-Reply-To: <473D55E8.5080507@wp.pl> References: <473D55E8.5080507@wp.pl> Message-ID: <200711161310.11734.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> On Friday 16 November 2007 08:33, xpdf wrote: > Jabber is good idea to make a freenet faster & moore knowing. The > protocol & servers is stable. Users & account are moore. many servers > have SSL. plugins to popular communicators. By all means write a plugin to use jabber to exchange noderefs. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/tech/attachments/20071116/e57b286a/attachment.pgp From xpdf at wp.pl Fri Nov 16 13:37:46 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:37:46 +0100 Subject: [Tech] Jabber transport In-Reply-To: <200711161310.11734.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> References: <473D55E8.5080507@wp.pl> <200711161310.11734.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <473D9D2A.7070002@wp.pl> Matthew Toseland pisze: > On Friday 16 November 2007 08:33, xpdf wrote: > >> Jabber is good idea to make a freenet faster & moore knowing. The >> protocol & servers is stable. Users & account are moore. many servers >> have SSL. plugins to popular communicators. >> > > By all means write a plugin to use jabber to exchange noderefs. > in jabber are 'transports' similar to plugins in servers. I think about it. exchange is not neccesary. IMHO From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org Fri Nov 16 20:07:54 2007 From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:07:54 +0000 Subject: [Tech] Jabber transport In-Reply-To: <473D9D2A.7070002@wp.pl> References: <473D55E8.5080507@wp.pl> <200711161310.11734.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> <473D9D2A.7070002@wp.pl> Message-ID: <200711162007.59159.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> On Friday 16 November 2007 13:37, xpdf wrote: > Matthew Toseland pisze: > > On Friday 16 November 2007 08:33, xpdf wrote: > > > >> Jabber is good idea to make a freenet faster & moore knowing. The > >> protocol & servers is stable. Users & account are moore. many servers > >> have SSL. plugins to popular communicators. > >> > > > > By all means write a plugin to use jabber to exchange noderefs. > > > in jabber are 'transports' similar to plugins in servers. > I think about it. > > exchange is not neccesary. IMHO Routing all traffic through the Jabber central servers will a) be very slow and b) constitute a DoS in the eyes of most server operators. Jabber, IM clients in general, email, and so on, are IMHO in the category of either: a) Ways to get onto the network in the first place i.e. exchange darknet refs or b) Ways to stay on the network: Rendezvous transports. Transports which are used only for sending the current IP address to a node which is unable to connect because it doesn't know it. Eventually we will have plugins for both data transports (UDP, TCP, HTTP etc) and rendezvous transports (IM, email etc). -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/tech/attachments/20071116/6edc3568/attachment.pgp From xpdf at wp.pl Fri Nov 16 21:02:25 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:02:25 +0100 Subject: [Tech] Jabber transport In-Reply-To: <200711162007.59159.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> References: <473D55E8.5080507@wp.pl> <200711161310.11734.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> <473D9D2A.7070002@wp.pl> <200711162007.59159.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <473E0561.2070703@wp.pl> Matthew Toseland pisze: > On Friday 16 November 2007 13:37, xpdf wrote: > >> Matthew Toseland pisze: >> >>> On Friday 16 November 2007 08:33, xpdf wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Jabber is good idea to make a freenet faster & moore knowing. The >>>> protocol & servers is stable. Users & account are moore. many servers >>>> have SSL. plugins to popular communicators. >>>> >> > > Routing all traffic through the Jabber central servers will a) be very slow > not more than at present but people who use freenet they will be counted in thousands > and b) constitute a DoS in the eyes of most server operators. > many serwer-s is very good google wp.pl (huge polish portal) etc. > Jabber, IM clients in general, email, and so on, are IMHO in the category of > either: > Hm. why IM? If I tell use jabber protocol to free net not this same to usem IM on freenet. Tell me how many is of servers freenets? How many is servers jabber & client jabber. How many people write aplications to use freenet? Rethink ;) about it. > a) Ways to get onto the network in the first place i.e. exchange darknet refs > or > jabber is naturaly. Naturaly colecting friend in my roster. I know this people. The freenet growing naturaly. > b) Ways to stay on the network: Rendezvous transports. Transports which are > used only for sending the current IP address to a node which is unable to > connect because it doesn't know it. > Yes, but how many users? This is problem. Tor was broken therefore the path message will be short (time), and there nodes are little > Eventually we will have plugins for both data transports (UDP, TCP, HTTP etc) > and rendezvous transports (IM, email etc). > I hate java ;) this serwer not working propertly on many net hardware (routers, small or old computers) not working on many PDA. I think the rewrite a small freenet on jaber protocol will be beter than the present situation From xpdf at wp.pl Sat Nov 17 09:07:31 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:07:31 +0100 Subject: [Tech] Jabber transport In-Reply-To: <473E0561.2070703@wp.pl> References: <473D55E8.5080507@wp.pl> <200711161310.11734.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> <473D9D2A.7070002@wp.pl> <200711162007.59159.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> <473E0561.2070703@wp.pl> Message-ID: <473EAF53.3010005@wp.pl> > Yes, but how many users? This is problem. Tor was broken therefore the > path message will be short (time), and there nodes are little > >> Eventually we will have plugins for both data transports (UDP, TCP, HTTP etc) >> and rendezvous transports (IM, email etc). >> Hm.. the small bot in perl (gateway freenet <-> jabber net) or php. Only to get & put CHK at ... file. If: + I use SSL connection to serwer & bott SSL connection + the server are trustable + the bot get & put max 'x' (x=40 or less) instruction in one time We can to check what this working. fcp2.0 I willingly installing it on my system to test. From xpdf at wp.pl Sat Nov 17 10:59:26 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:59:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech] simple example Message-ID: <473EC98E.6080100@wp.pl> What I can write a simple get in fcp2.o library C? I have to know a freenet protocol? Exist any simple functions get key? From sich at cafe-philo.net Sat Nov 17 14:43:14 2007 From: sich at cafe-philo.net (sich) Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 15:43:14 +0100 Subject: [Tech] simple example In-Reply-To: <473EC98E.6080100@wp.pl> References: <473EC98E.6080100@wp.pl> Message-ID: <473EFE02.8060009@cafe-philo.net> xpdf a ?crit : > What I can write a simple get in fcp2.o library C? > > I have to know a freenet protocol? Exist any simple functions get key? http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetFCPSpec2Point0 sich From xpdf at wp.pl Mon Nov 19 06:52:40 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:52:40 +0100 Subject: [Tech] AJAX In-Reply-To: <473EFE02.8060009@cafe-philo.net> References: <473EC98E.6080100@wp.pl> <473EFE02.8060009@cafe-philo.net> Message-ID: <474132B8.5040607@wp.pl> Can I use AJAX on my freepage? I read some pages & I found a
put Is possible to make this? Many people turn off the java script. From xpdf at wp.pl Mon Nov 19 07:29:45 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 08:29:45 +0100 Subject: [Tech] Wiki In-Reply-To: <473EFE02.8060009@cafe-philo.net> References: <473EC98E.6080100@wp.pl> <473EFE02.8060009@cafe-philo.net> Message-ID: <47413B69.6050006@wp.pl> Why I can't use http://www.blogjones.com/TiddlyWikiTutorial.html TidlyWiki or other JScrip web page on 127.0.0.1:8888 ? Is any idea ro run JS on this page? From thelema314 at gmail.com Mon Nov 19 07:29:57 2007 From: thelema314 at gmail.com (Edgar Friendly) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 01:29:57 -0600 Subject: [Tech] Wiki In-Reply-To: <47413B69.6050006@wp.pl> References: <473EC98E.6080100@wp.pl> <473EFE02.8060009@cafe-philo.net> <47413B69.6050006@wp.pl> Message-ID: <47413B75.3040605@gmail.com> xpdf wrote: > Why I can't use http://www.blogjones.com/TiddlyWikiTutorial.html > TidlyWiki or other JScrip web page on 127.0.0.1:8888 ? > Is any idea ro run JS on this page? > _______________________________________________ > Tech mailing list > Tech at freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech The developers have (quite reasonably) decided that Javascript poses a security risk in freesites (at least partly because there's no effective way to sanitize it). IIRC, one can use JS if ... something about ignoring the security warnings. Maybe more than just that. E. From phillip.hutchings at sitharus.com Mon Nov 19 07:30:38 2007 From: phillip.hutchings at sitharus.com (Phillip Hutchings) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:30:38 +1300 Subject: [Tech] AJAX In-Reply-To: <474132B8.5040607@wp.pl> References: <473EC98E.6080100@wp.pl> <473EFE02.8060009@cafe-philo.net> <474132B8.5040607@wp.pl> Message-ID: On 19/11/2007, at 19:52, xpdf wrote: > Can I use AJAX on my freepage? No, for security reasons Freenet filters out JavaScript, since it could be used to harvest freenet user's details. -- Phillip Hutchings http://www.sitharus.com/ From xpdf at wp.pl Mon Nov 19 07:45:48 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 08:45:48 +0100 Subject: [Tech] AJAX In-Reply-To: References: <473EC98E.6080100@wp.pl> <473EFE02.8060009@cafe-philo.net> <474132B8.5040607@wp.pl> Message-ID: <47413F2C.10102@wp.pl> Phillip Hutchings pisze: > On 19/11/2007, at 19:52, xpdf wrote: > > >> Can I use AJAX on my freepage? >> > > No, for security reasons Freenet filters out JavaScript, since it > could be used to harvest freenet user's details. > ok. meybe rewrite a put metod or make special freenetput? (similar to send a message to frost) I would like to write a forum & comment below my news on web page. What I can do this? You are open on this idea? From xpdf at wp.pl Mon Nov 19 07:54:33 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 08:54:33 +0100 Subject: [Tech] AJAX In-Reply-To: <47413F2C.10102@wp.pl> References: <473EC98E.6080100@wp.pl> <473EFE02.8060009@cafe-philo.net> <474132B8.5040607@wp.pl> <47413F2C.10102@wp.pl> Message-ID: <47414139.5080903@wp.pl> xpdf pisze: > Phillip Hutchings pisze: > >> On 19/11/2007, at 19:52, xpdf wrote: >> >> >> >>> Can I use AJAX on my freepage? >>> >>> >> No, for security reasons Freenet filters out JavaScript, since it >> could be used to harvest freenet user's details. >> >> > ok. meybe rewrite a put metod or make special freenetput? > (similar to send a message to frost) > I would like to write a forum & comment below my news on web page. What > I can do this? > You are open on this idea? Interactive with users is very important. From phillip.hutchings at sitharus.com Mon Nov 19 08:00:28 2007 From: phillip.hutchings at sitharus.com (Phillip Hutchings) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 21:00:28 +1300 Subject: [Tech] AJAX In-Reply-To: <47414139.5080903@wp.pl> References: <473EC98E.6080100@wp.pl> <473EFE02.8060009@cafe-philo.net> <474132B8.5040607@wp.pl> <47413F2C.10102@wp.pl> <47414139.5080903@wp.pl> Message-ID: <979CCB06-93C8-44BA-B8D2-389FAA481465@sitharus.com> On 19/11/2007, at 20:54, xpdf wrote: > xpdf pisze: >> Phillip Hutchings pisze: >> >>> On 19/11/2007, at 19:52, xpdf wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Can I use AJAX on my freepage? >>>> >>>> >>> No, for security reasons Freenet filters out JavaScript, since it >>> could be used to harvest freenet user's details. >>> >>> >> ok. meybe rewrite a put metod or make special freenetput? >> (similar to send a message to frost) >> I would like to write a forum & comment below my news on web page. >> What >> I can do this? >> You are open on this idea? > Interactive with users is very important. Look at frost then, it's a usenet-style system. There are also a few others, I recall one that works through a web interface similar to fproxy. Freenet isn't really suited to run a wiki, or any system that's based on the standard client-server model. -- Phillip Hutchings http://www.sitharus.com/ From xpdf at wp.pl Mon Nov 19 08:13:24 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:13:24 +0100 Subject: [Tech] AJAX In-Reply-To: <979CCB06-93C8-44BA-B8D2-389FAA481465@sitharus.com> References: <473EC98E.6080100@wp.pl> <473EFE02.8060009@cafe-philo.net> <474132B8.5040607@wp.pl> <47413F2C.10102@wp.pl> <47414139.5080903@wp.pl> <979CCB06-93C8-44BA-B8D2-389FAA481465@sitharus.com> Message-ID: <474145A4.5000309@wp.pl> Phillip Hutchings pisze: > On 19/11/2007, at 20:54, xpdf wrote: > > >> xpdf pisze: >> >>> Phillip Hutchings pisze: >>> >>> >>>> On 19/11/2007, at 19:52, xpdf wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Can I use AJAX on my freepage? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> No, for security reasons Freenet filters out JavaScript, since it >>>> could be used to harvest freenet user's details. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ok. meybe rewrite a put metod or make special freenetput? >>> (similar to send a message to frost) >>> I would like to write a forum & comment below my news on web page. >>> What >>> I can do this? >>> You are open on this idea? >>> >> Interactive with users is very important. >> > > Look at frost then, it's a usenet-style system. There are also a few > others, I recall one that works through a web interface similar to > fproxy. > > Freenet isn't really suited to run a wiki, or any system that's based > on the standard client-server model. yes but interaction is interesting to users. If I read freepage I would like to write a comment. On page I make The data send to KSK/SSK etc. file like that frost. Och, i cant imagine the comment is sended to frost board directly ;) & serwer on my komputer read the messages from frost & update my web page. Slowly but usualy. From freenetwork at web.de Mon Nov 19 09:31:12 2007 From: freenetwork at web.de (freenetwork at web.de) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:31:12 +0100 Subject: [Tech] AJAX In-Reply-To: <474145A4.5000309@wp.pl> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:13:24 +0100, xpdf wrote: >Phillip Hutchings pisze: >> On 19/11/2007, at 20:54, xpdf wrote: >> >> >>> xpdf pisze: >>> >>>> Phillip Hutchings pisze: >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 19/11/2007, at 19:52, xpdf wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Can I use AJAX on my freepage? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> No, for security reasons Freenet filters out JavaScript, since it >>>>> could be used to harvest freenet user's details. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ok. meybe rewrite a put metod or make special freenetput? >>>> (similar to send a message to frost) >>>> I would like to write a forum & comment below my news on web page. >>>> What >>>> I can do this? >>>> You are open on this idea? >>>> >>> Interactive with users is very important. >>> >> >> Look at frost then, it's a usenet-style system. There are also a few >> others, I recall one that works through a web interface similar to >> fproxy. It's called "WORST" :) Sadly development seems to have ceased but it works quite good >> Freenet isn't really suited to run a wiki, or any system that's based >> on the standard client-server model. >yes but interaction is interesting to users. >If I read freepage I would like to write a comment. On page I make >
>
>The data send to KSK/SSK etc. file like that frost. Och, i cant imagine >the comment is sended to frost board directly ;) & serwer on my komputer >read the messages from frost & update my web page. Slowly but usualy. In The Old Days there was a method called "Nearly Instant Messaging" or "NIM" that allowed visitors to enter a freeform text into a textbox and upload this text to a numbered slot that's in effect a KSK-key. Haven't seen these on 0.7, though. Here's a code snipplet to get you started, I don't kow if this works at all with 0.7, or might need some tweaking:
Used Submission Slot Checker:
1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 

Target:
 Adjust as required (use a free slot)

HTL:
 Higher values for deeper insertions (they take longer)

Your Message:


From xpdf at wp.pl Mon Nov 19 09:43:04 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:43:04 +0100 Subject: [Tech] AJAX In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47415AA8.5040802@wp.pl> freenetwork at web.de pisze: > On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:13:24 +0100, xpdf wrote: > > >> Phillip Hutchings pisze: >> >>> On 19/11/2007, at 20:54, xpdf wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> xpdf pisze: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Phillip Hutchings pisze: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 19/11/2007, at 19:52, xpdf wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Can I use AJAX on my freepage? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> No, for security reasons Freenet filters out JavaScript, since it >>>>>> could be used to harvest freenet user's details. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ok. meybe rewrite a put metod or make special freenetput? >>>>> (similar to send a message to frost) >>>>> I would like to write a forum & comment below my news on web page. >>>>> What >>>>> I can do this? >>>>> You are open on this idea? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Interactive with users is very important. >>>> >>>> >>> Look at frost then, it's a usenet-style system. There are also a few >>> others, I recall one that works through a web interface similar to >>> fproxy. >>> > > It's called "WORST" :) > Sadly development seems to have ceased but it works quite good > hm.. I never seen a proxy web<--> worst please send me a url From nextgens at freenetproject.org Mon Nov 19 09:41:50 2007 From: nextgens at freenetproject.org (Florent =?iso-8859-1?Q?Daigni=E8re?=) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:41:50 +0100 Subject: [Tech] AJAX In-Reply-To: References: <474145A4.5000309@wp.pl> Message-ID: <20071119094150.GA4279@freenetproject.org> * freenetwork at web.de [2007-11-19 10:31:12]: > On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:13:24 +0100, xpdf wrote: > > >Phillip Hutchings pisze: > >> On 19/11/2007, at 20:54, xpdf wrote: > >> > >> > >>> xpdf pisze: > >>> > >>>> Phillip Hutchings pisze: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On 19/11/2007, at 19:52, xpdf wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Can I use AJAX on my freepage? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> No, for security reasons Freenet filters out JavaScript, since it > >>>>> could be used to harvest freenet user's details. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> ok. meybe rewrite a put metod or make special freenetput? > >>>> (similar to send a message to frost) > >>>> I would like to write a forum & comment below my news on web page. > >>>> What > >>>> I can do this? > >>>> You are open on this idea? > >>>> > >>> Interactive with users is very important. > >>> > >> > >> Look at frost then, it's a usenet-style system. There are also a few > >> others, I recall one that works through a web interface similar to > >> fproxy. > > It's called "WORST" :) > Sadly development seems to have ceased but it works quite good > > >> Freenet isn't really suited to run a wiki, or any system that's based > >> on the standard client-server model. > > >yes but interaction is interesting to users. > >If I read freepage I would like to write a comment. On page I make > >
> >
> > >The data send to KSK/SSK etc. file like that frost. Och, i cant imagine > >the comment is sended to frost board directly ;) & serwer on my komputer > >read the messages from frost & update my web page. Slowly but usualy. > > In The Old Days there was a method called "Nearly Instant Messaging" or "NIM" that allowed visitors to enter a freeform text into a textbox and upload this text to a numbered slot that's in effect a KSK-key. Haven't seen these on 0.7, though. > Here's a code snipplet to get you started, I don't kow if this works at all with 0.7, or might need some tweaking: > It works on .7 see http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetNIMs It's possible to send frost messages using it too... but I'm not sure that it's documented anywhere. NextGen$ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/tech/attachments/20071119/d90cc554/attachment.pgp From xpdf at wp.pl Mon Nov 19 09:56:14 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:56:14 +0100 Subject: [Tech] AJAX In-Reply-To: <20071119094150.GA4279@freenetproject.org> References: <474145A4.5000309@wp.pl> <20071119094150.GA4279@freenetproject.org> Message-ID: <47415DBE.9020207@wp.pl> >> In The Old Days there was a method called "Nearly Instant Messaging" or "NIM" that allowed visitors to enter a freeform text into a textbox and upload this text to a numbered slot that's in effect a KSK-key. Haven't seen these on 0.7, though. >> Here's a code snipplet to get you started, I don't kow if this works at all with 0.7, or might need some tweaking: >> >> > > It works on .7 see http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetNIMs > Error: Invalid URI * Nazwa pliku: nim-1.bin * Size: unknown * MIME type: unknown Explanation > It's possible to send frost messages using it too... but I'm not sure > that it's documented anywhere. > hm interesting From xpdf at wp.pl Mon Nov 19 10:28:26 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:28:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech] key In-Reply-To: <47415DBE.9020207@wp.pl> References: <474145A4.5000309@wp.pl> <20071119094150.GA4279@freenetproject.org> <47415DBE.9020207@wp.pl> Message-ID: <4741654A.3080000@wp.pl> What long are key in SSK? in bits not long of keys this is rsa? From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org Mon Nov 19 13:07:12 2007 From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:07:12 +0000 Subject: [Tech] AJAX In-Reply-To: <47415DBE.9020207@wp.pl> References: <474145A4.5000309@wp.pl> <20071119094150.GA4279@freenetproject.org> <47415DBE.9020207@wp.pl> Message-ID: <200711191307.17668.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> On Monday 19 November 2007 09:56, xpdf wrote: > > >> In The Old Days there was a method called "Nearly Instant Messaging" or "NIM" that allowed visitors to enter a freeform text into a textbox and upload this text to a numbered slot that's in effect a KSK-key. Haven't seen these on 0.7, though. > >> Here's a code snipplet to get you started, I don't kow if this works at all with 0.7, or might need some tweaking: > >> > >> > > > > It works on .7 see http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetNIMs > > > > Error: Invalid URI > > * Nazwa pliku: nim-1.bin > > * Size: unknown > * MIME type: unknown NIM forms must upload to KSKs, not SSKs. It would be interesting to inline a Worst board in a frame ... we'd need to port Worst to the fred plugin API first. Likewise with freekiwiki (a freenet wiki implementation). -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/tech/attachments/20071119/821af54c/attachment.pgp From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org Mon Nov 19 13:07:53 2007 From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:07:53 +0000 Subject: [Tech] key In-Reply-To: <4741654A.3080000@wp.pl> References: <474145A4.5000309@wp.pl> <47415DBE.9020207@wp.pl> <4741654A.3080000@wp.pl> Message-ID: <200711191307.54097.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> On Monday 19 November 2007 10:28, xpdf wrote: > What long are key in SSK? > in bits not long of keys this is rsa? http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetSSKPages -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/tech/attachments/20071119/7dd33a2d/attachment.pgp From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org Mon Nov 19 13:08:46 2007 From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:08:46 +0000 Subject: [Tech] Wiki In-Reply-To: <47413B75.3040605@gmail.com> References: <473EC98E.6080100@wp.pl> <47413B69.6050006@wp.pl> <47413B75.3040605@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200711191308.46112.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> On Monday 19 November 2007 07:29, Edgar Friendly wrote: > xpdf wrote: > > Why I can't use http://www.blogjones.com/TiddlyWikiTutorial.html > > TidlyWiki or other JScrip web page on 127.0.0.1:8888 ? > > Is any idea ro run JS on this page? > > _______________________________________________ > > Tech mailing list > > Tech at freenetproject.org > > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech > > The developers have (quite reasonably) decided that Javascript poses a > security risk in freesites (at least partly because there's no effective > way to sanitize it). IIRC, one can use JS if ... something about > ignoring the security warnings. Maybe more than just that. You can't use javascript, it's filtered out for security reasons. However there is a wiki-over-freenet project, Freekiwiki. See the board on Frost. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/tech/attachments/20071119/6e89c9b4/attachment.pgp From xpdf at wp.pl Mon Nov 19 14:56:30 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:56:30 +0100 Subject: [Tech] key In-Reply-To: <200711191307.54097.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> References: <474145A4.5000309@wp.pl> <47415DBE.9020207@wp.pl> <4741654A.3080000@wp.pl> <200711191307.54097.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <4741A41E.2070308@wp.pl> Matthew Toseland pisze: > On Monday 19 November 2007 10:28, xpdf wrote: > >> What long are key in SSK? >> in bits not long of keys this is rsa? >> > > http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetSSKPages in this page not write how long are the keys in bytes. From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org Mon Nov 19 15:12:20 2007 From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:12:20 +0000 Subject: [Tech] key In-Reply-To: <4741A41E.2070308@wp.pl> References: <474145A4.5000309@wp.pl> <200711191307.54097.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> <4741A41E.2070308@wp.pl> Message-ID: <200711191512.25099.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> On Monday 19 November 2007 14:56, xpdf wrote: > Matthew Toseland pisze: > > On Monday 19 November 2007 10:28, xpdf wrote: > > > >> What long are key in SSK? > >> in bits not long of keys this is rsa? > >> > > > > http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetSSKPages > > in this page not write how long are the keys in bytes. It does now. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/tech/attachments/20071119/53e86141/attachment.pgp From xpdf at wp.pl Mon Nov 19 15:26:20 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:26:20 +0100 Subject: [Tech] key In-Reply-To: <200711191512.25099.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> References: <474145A4.5000309@wp.pl> <200711191307.54097.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> <4741A41E.2070308@wp.pl> <200711191512.25099.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <4741AB1C.8030605@wp.pl> Matthew Toseland pisze: > On Monday 19 November 2007 14:56, xpdf wrote: > >> Matthew Toseland pisze: >> >>> On Monday 19 November 2007 10:28, xpdf wrote: >>> >>> >>>> What long are key in SSK? >>>> in bits not long of keys this is rsa? >>>> >>>> >>> http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetSSKPages >>> >> in this page not write how long are the keys in bytes. >> > > It does now. ok show me. I not see From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org Mon Nov 19 15:35:23 2007 From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:35:23 +0000 Subject: [Tech] key In-Reply-To: <4741AB1C.8030605@wp.pl> References: <474145A4.5000309@wp.pl> <200711191512.25099.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> <4741AB1C.8030605@wp.pl> Message-ID: <200711191535.23547.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> On Monday 19 November 2007 15:26, xpdf wrote: > Matthew Toseland pisze: > > On Monday 19 November 2007 14:56, xpdf wrote: > > > >> Matthew Toseland pisze: > >> > >>> On Monday 19 November 2007 10:28, xpdf wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> What long are key in SSK? > >>>> in bits not long of keys this is rsa? > >>>> > >>>> > >>> http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetSSKPages > >>> > >> in this page not write how long are the keys in bytes. > >> > > > > It does now. > > ok show me. I not see At the end, "The gory details". -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/tech/attachments/20071119/b66915f3/attachment.pgp From xpdf at wp.pl Mon Nov 19 17:51:32 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:51:32 +0100 Subject: [Tech] key In-Reply-To: <200711191535.23547.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> References: <474145A4.5000309@wp.pl> <200711191512.25099.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> <4741AB1C.8030605@wp.pl> <200711191535.23547.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <4741CD24.5010100@wp.pl> Matthew Toseland pisze: > On Monday 19 November 2007 15:26, xpdf wrote: > >> Matthew Toseland pisze: >> >>> On Monday 19 November 2007 14:56, xpdf wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Matthew Toseland pisze: >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Monday 19 November 2007 10:28, xpdf wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> What long are key in SSK? >>>>>> in bits not long of keys this is rsa? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetSSKPages >>>>> >>>>> >>>> in this page not write how long are the keys in bytes. >>>> >>>> >>> It does now. >>> >> ok show me. I not see >> > > At the end, "The gory details". thx From xpdf at wp.pl Tue Nov 20 16:54:03 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:54:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech] https Message-ID: <4743112B.6090606@wp.pl> Is possibe to make a https transmision? I put a x509 rsa key to my web page. https://127.0.0.1:8888/... I woul be a signed whole web page From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org Tue Nov 20 17:33:07 2007 From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:33:07 +0000 Subject: [Tech] https In-Reply-To: <4743112B.6090606@wp.pl> References: <4743112B.6090606@wp.pl> Message-ID: <200711201733.07898.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> On Tuesday 20 November 2007 16:54, xpdf wrote: > Is possibe to make a https transmision? > I put a x509 rsa key to my web page. There is a patch being worked on on Frost to add HTTPS functionality to Fproxy. It should land in the next few days. > > https://127.0.0.1:8888/... > > I woul be a signed whole web page I don't understand. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/tech/attachments/20071120/179f0773/attachment.pgp From thelema314 at gmail.com Tue Nov 20 18:10:11 2007 From: thelema314 at gmail.com (Edgar Friendly) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:10:11 -0600 Subject: [Tech] https In-Reply-To: <200711201733.07898.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> References: <4743112B.6090606@wp.pl> <200711201733.07898.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <47432303.5060203@gmail.com> Matthew Toseland wrote: > On Tuesday 20 November 2007 16:54, xpdf wrote: >> Is possibe to make a https transmision? >> I put a x509 rsa key to my web page. > > There is a patch being worked on on Frost to add HTTPS functionality to > Fproxy. It should land in the next few days. >> https://127.0.0.1:8888/... >> >> I woul be a signed whole web page > > I don't understand. > > It seems he doesn't understand a basic idea of freenet. Possibility 1: He seems to think that freenet "web pages" can do much more than they actually can. He hasn't read that the pages get retrieved through the freenet server, but no more - any processing has to occur completely client side, in the client's web browser. Possibility 2: He doesn't realize how much signing goes on for *every* key inserted into freenet. E. From xpdf at wp.pl Tue Nov 20 19:39:40 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 20:39:40 +0100 Subject: [Tech] https In-Reply-To: <200711201733.07898.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> References: <4743112B.6090606@wp.pl> <200711201733.07898.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <474337FC.9050801@wp.pl> Matthew Toseland pisze: > On Tuesday 20 November 2007 16:54, xpdf wrote: > >> Is possibe to make a https transmision? >> I put a x509 rsa key to my web page. >> > > There is a patch being worked on on Frost to add HTTPS functionality to > Fproxy. It should land in the next few days. ok, thanks From xpdf at wp.pl Wed Nov 21 08:16:11 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 09:16:11 +0100 Subject: [Tech] can I publish cache on my web page? In-Reply-To: <474337FC.9050801@wp.pl> References: <4743112B.6090606@wp.pl> <200711201733.07898.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> <474337FC.9050801@wp.pl> Message-ID: <4743E94B.2020204@wp.pl> Tell me. If the file in my cache of nodes no have a full key I can publish it in my web page? the people who know full key can read from me file add public key, encrypt end read the file? I still don't know what I have From xpdf at wp.pl Wed Nov 21 09:12:34 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:12:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech] example get fpc2 In-Reply-To: <20071119094150.GA4279@freenetproject.org> References: <474145A4.5000309@wp.pl> <20071119094150.GA4279@freenetproject.org> Message-ID: <4743F682.8030305@wp.pl> I would like to get the mykey from freenet. & printf it on screen. What I have to make a request? -> FcpMessageSend(serv, "ClientGet", 2, "Name", "test", "ExpectedVersion", "2.0"); Please tell me. _________________ #include #include #include #include #include int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { FcpMessage *msg; FcpServer *serv; int port=9481; char *host="127.0.0.1"; char key[5000]; char mykey[]="CHK@~1D4uM8BqfGbHVjah91Izh-jIuZUn26S0T~uH-lHOW4,zvZCH2oY0IqsesCjH3E3rCUNObzbYEyYl4HWD0nqF-c,AAIA--8"; msg = FcpMessageCreate(2*1024); if (msg==NULL) return(1); /* Connect to the server */ serv = FcpServerConnect(host, port, 64*1024, 64*1024); if (serv==NULL) { printf("Couldn't connect to %s %d!!\n", host, port); return(1); } /* Send the client hello message */ FcpMessageSend(serv, "ClientGet", 2, "Name", "test", "ExpectedVersion", "2.0"); /* Clean up */ FcpServerDisconnect(serv); FcpMessageDestroy(msg); return(0); } From xpdf at wp.pl Wed Nov 21 09:25:20 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:25:20 +0100 Subject: [Tech] sec example Message-ID: <4743F980.4060203@wp.pl> second version of example http://dark-code.bulix.org/ojzo7b-61741 What I can to do to receive file? From xpdf at wp.pl Thu Nov 22 07:29:47 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 08:29:47 +0100 Subject: [Tech] Wiki Message-ID: <47452FEB.3090501@wp.pl> My friend ask me what he can add a polish translations to HomePage on wiki? From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org Thu Nov 22 10:24:05 2007 From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 10:24:05 +0000 Subject: [Tech] Wiki In-Reply-To: <47452FEB.3090501@wp.pl> References: <47452FEB.3090501@wp.pl> Message-ID: <200711221024.06143.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> On Thursday 22 November 2007 07:29, xpdf wrote: > My friend ask me what he can add a polish translations to HomePage on wiki? I don't see any reason why not. At the top of HomePage there are translations of the installation page. Also he might be interested in translating the freenet UI itself; I believe the polish translation is not up to date: http://wiki.freenetproject.org/TranslatingFreenet -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/tech/attachments/20071122/5b2e7835/attachment.pgp From xpdf at wp.pl Thu Nov 22 11:38:24 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 12:38:24 +0100 Subject: [Tech] Wiki In-Reply-To: <200711221024.06143.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> References: <47452FEB.3090501@wp.pl> <200711221024.06143.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <47456A30.5010701@wp.pl> Matthew Toseland pisze: > On Thursday 22 November 2007 07:29, xpdf wrote: > >> My friend ask me what he can add a polish translations to HomePage on wiki? >> > > I don't see any reason why not. HomePage is editable? Aha. Thanks. From jUrner at arcor.de Thu Nov 22 12:13:52 2007 From: jUrner at arcor.de (Juergen Urner) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 13:13:52 +0100 Subject: [Tech] Fcp notes and issues Message-ID: <47457280.7090306@arcor.de> Hello, Quite a list, but I got some some notes / issues regarding Fcp-2.0. Instead of flooding the bug tracker with minor issues I thought I better bundle them and ask for advice (Node #1075 r15872M) 1.) PersistentGet ...the node sends a PersistentGet message as soon as a connection is established for each request still in the queue. a. the order in wich these messages arrive, should I assume it is arbitrary or is it in request insertion order? b. is it intentional that listing is not followed by an EndListPersitentRequests message? As far as I can see, this would allow clients to do clean post init processing. c. a minor point in relation to the initial listing of persistent requests. Maybe a bit paranoid, but some client may have left an unknown number of requests laying around for the next client to run into. Somehow I would feel better if I could tell the node to only list a a specified set of requests and forget about all others. d. MaxSize and BinaryBlob fields are not passed. This could make it hard in some cases to resend a message without keeping track of the initial message across conncetions. 2.) A suggestion on identifiers. As far as I can see the only way to process is to be prepaired to resend a message to handle IdentifierCollisions. Maybe it would allow clients to do cleaner processing if the node could be explicitely queried for identifiers. 3.) I already asked this question on Frost regarding translations and client / node locale. Why not let the client tell the node wich locale to use in a connection? IIRC nextgens responded something like: error messages are intended to be used by programmers only. Coding a bit deeper into Fcp I noticed all the strings being passed in ConfigData messages and feel like restating my point. Why double effords (horror ;-)when all these strings are already translated so nicely. Was: my american friend wants to talk to the greek node on my machine. 4.) from my wishlist: handle filename collisions. The node checks for TempFilename collisions for security reasons but IIRC does not check for Filename collisions when the request is complete. Anyway.. a flag would be nice indicating how to handle collisions of either one. Something like "HandleTmpFilenameCollisions=report | rename", "HandleFilenameCollisions=report | rename". Where rename does an automatic rename to "myTmpFilename (1)" / "myFilename (1)", reporting the final names on PersistentGet and DataFound. I know, "blah (1)" == ugly, but IMHO but that's what a client has to do anyways. Juergen From nextgens at freenetproject.org Thu Nov 22 12:33:27 2007 From: nextgens at freenetproject.org (Florent =?iso-8859-1?Q?Daigni=E8re?=) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 13:33:27 +0100 Subject: [Tech] Wiki In-Reply-To: <47456A30.5010701@wp.pl> References: <47452FEB.3090501@wp.pl> <200711221024.06143.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> <47456A30.5010701@wp.pl> Message-ID: <20071122123326.GA4256@freenetproject.org> * xpdf [2007-11-22 12:38:24]: > Matthew Toseland pisze: > > On Thursday 22 November 2007 07:29, xpdf wrote: > > > >> My friend ask me what he can add a polish translations to HomePage on wiki? > >> > > > > I don't see any reason why not. > HomePage is editable? Aha. Thanks. I've added a link to the polish page -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/tech/attachments/20071122/800d0c08/attachment.pgp From xpdf at wp.pl Thu Nov 22 12:43:38 2007 From: xpdf at wp.pl (xpdf) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 13:43:38 +0100 Subject: [Tech] Wiki In-Reply-To: <20071122123326.GA4256@freenetproject.org> References: <47452FEB.3090501@wp.pl> <200711221024.06143.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> <47456A30.5010701@wp.pl> <20071122123326.GA4256@freenetproject.org> Message-ID: <4745797A.3030100@wp.pl> Florent Daigni?re pisze: > * xpdf [2007-11-22 12:38:24]: > > >> Matthew Toseland pisze: >> >>> On Thursday 22 November 2007 07:29, xpdf wrote: >>> >>> >>>> My friend ask me what he can add a polish translations to HomePage on wiki? >>>> >>>> >>> I don't see any reason why not. >>> >> HomePage is editable? Aha. Thanks. >> > > I've added a link to the polish page ok,ok. I tell my friend. The web page is editable & my friend can edit it himself. From nextgens at freenetproject.org Thu Nov 22 12:41:23 2007 From: nextgens at freenetproject.org (Florent =?iso-8859-1?Q?Daigni=E8re?=) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 13:41:23 +0100 Subject: [Tech] Fcp notes and issues In-Reply-To: <47457280.7090306@arcor.de> References: <47457280.7090306@arcor.de> Message-ID: <20071122124123.GB4256@freenetproject.org> * Juergen Urner [2007-11-22 13:13:52]: > 3.) I already asked this question on Frost regarding translations and > client / node > locale. Why not let the client tell the node wich locale to use in a > connection? IIRC > nextgens responded something like: error messages are intended to be > used by > programmers only. > > Coding a bit deeper into Fcp I noticed all the strings being passed in > ConfigData messages > and feel like restating my point. Why double effords (horror ;-)when all > these strings are > already translated so nicely. Was: my american friend wants to talk to > the greek node on > my machine. Well, the reason is that it's easier code-wise to assume that everyone on the node uses the same locale. Fill in a ticket on the bug tracker if you need/want that feature. NextGen$ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/tech/attachments/20071122/7b00bda9/attachment.pgp From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org Wed Nov 28 12:07:44 2007 From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:07:44 +0000 Subject: [Tech] Fcp notes and issues In-Reply-To: <47457280.7090306@arcor.de> References: <47457280.7090306@arcor.de> Message-ID: <200711281207.50371.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> On Thursday 22 November 2007 12:13, Juergen Urner wrote: > Hello, > > Quite a list, but I got some some notes / issues regarding Fcp-2.0. > Instead of flooding > the bug tracker with minor issues I thought I better bundle them and ask > for advice > (Node #1075 r15872M) > > > 1.) PersistentGet > ...the node sends a PersistentGet message as soon as a connection is > established for > each request still in the queue. Yes. The purpose is to remind the client of all the requests it has started and not cleaned up after. The client is supposed to delete those persistent requests which it has no further use for. > > a. the order in wich these messages arrive, should I assume it is arbitrary > or is it in request insertion order? Yes. > > b. is it intentional that listing is not followed by an > EndListPersitentRequests > message? As far as I can see, this would allow clients to do clean post > init processing. "Clean post init processing" = ignore all the messages ? They're not supposed to ignore all the messages! IIRC we send a full status for each request, so it is clear that the request is finished...? > > c. a minor point in relation to the initial listing of persistent requests. > Maybe a bit paranoid, but some client may have left an unknown number of > requests > laying around for the next client to run into. Somehow I would feel > better if I could > tell the node to only list a a specified set of requests and forget about > all others. This is why we have the Name field in the ClientHello. They are *your requests* if your application is well-written and uses a unique and well known Name. > > d. MaxSize and BinaryBlob fields are not passed. This could make it hard > in some cases > to resend a message without keeping track of the initial message across > conncetions. File a bug for this one. > > > 2.) A suggestion on identifiers. > As far as I can see the only way to process is to be prepaired to resend > a message > to handle IdentifierCollisions. Maybe it would allow clients to do > cleaner processing > if the node could be explicitely queried for identifiers. A single Name is a single client, full stop. We only allow one simultaneous connection with the same Name. However, on the global queue, this is not the case: many clients can be accessing it at once. So on the global queue, probing for an identifier would not make sense. On the client queue, it might make sense, although it would undoubtedly be faster to just send the request and retry it if necessary. File a bug if it simplifies your client. > > 3.) I already asked this question on Frost regarding translations and > client / node > locale. Why not let the client tell the node wich locale to use in a > connection? IIRC > nextgens responded something like: error messages are intended to be > used by > programmers only. At the moment FCP error messages aren't localised as far as I know. > > Coding a bit deeper into Fcp I noticed all the strings being passed in > ConfigData messages > and feel like restating my point. Why double effords (horror ;-)when all > these strings are > already translated so nicely. Was: my american friend wants to talk to > the greek node on > my machine. The config strings are localised but not much else. If you want l10n for the config strings, we could pass in the locale for that specific family of commands? > > 4.) from my wishlist: handle filename collisions. The node checks for > TempFilename > collisions for security reasons but IIRC does not check for Filename > collisions when the > request is complete. Anyway.. a flag would be nice indicating how to > handle collisions of > either one. Something like "HandleTmpFilenameCollisions=report | rename", > "HandleFilenameCollisions=report | rename". Where rename does an > automatic rename > to "myTmpFilename (1)" / "myFilename (1)", reporting the final names on > PersistentGet > and DataFound. I know, "blah (1)" == ugly, but IMHO but that's what a > client has to do > anyways. Ignore the tempFilename, we've got rid of it iirc. Data is written to a random filename related to the final filename, and then renamed. Well, if the file already exists, it could mean it was a bad filename, or it's already been downloaded by another client. The desired handling could be anything from rename it (IMHO this is not likely to be useful very often) to dump the old data to keep the old data in temporary space. The easiest thing is if the rename fails, we just tell the client where the data is now (the random temp filename). > > Juergen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/tech/attachments/20071128/27675af8/attachment.pgp From jUrner at arcor.de Wed Nov 28 17:33:05 2007 From: jUrner at arcor.de (Juergen Urner) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:33:05 +0100 Subject: [Tech] Fcp notes and issues In-Reply-To: <200711281207.50371.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> References: <47457280.7090306@arcor.de> <200711281207.50371.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <474DA651.2010005@arcor.de> In the meantime I filed a feature / bugreport for each issue. So, don't know if it makes much sense to discuss it here. Anyway... Matthew Toseland schrieb: > On Thursday 22 November 2007 12:13, Juergen Urner wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> Quite a list, but I got some some notes / issues regarding Fcp-2.0. >> Instead of flooding >> the bug tracker with minor issues I thought I better bundle them and ask >> for advice >> (Node #1075 r15872M) >> >> >> 1.) PersistentGet >> ...the node sends a PersistentGet message as soon as a connection is >> established for >> each request still in the queue. >> > > Yes. The purpose is to remind the client of all the requests it has started > and not cleaned up after. The client is supposed to delete those persistent > requests which it has no further use for. > >> a. the order in wich these messages arrive, should I assume it is arbitrary >> or is it in request insertion order? >> > > Yes. > I assume yes == "arbitrary". >> b. is it intentional that listing is not followed by an >> EndListPersitentRequests >> message? As far as I can see, this would allow clients to do clean post >> init processing. >> > > "Clean post init processing" = ignore all the messages ? They're not supposed > to ignore all the messages! IIRC we send a full status for each request, so > it is clear that the request is finished...? > Not necessarily for ignoring them, but for knowing when the node is done throwing persistents at the client and doing eventual post processings. >> c. a minor point in relation to the initial listing of persistent requests. >> Maybe a bit paranoid, but some client may have left an unknown number of >> requests >> laying around for the next client to run into. Somehow I would feel >> better if I could >> tell the node to only list a a specified set of requests and forget about >> all others. >> > > This is why we have the Name field in the ClientHello. They are *your > requests* if your application is well-written and uses a unique and well > known Name. > Not necessarily my* requests. I filed a report regarding this [https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=1893]. Well-known-name is well known to who? I wouldn' t want to keep track of all names all clients may have in use when there is a better solution. >> d. MaxSize and BinaryBlob fields are not passed. This could make it hard >> in some cases >> to resend a message without keeping track of the initial message across >> conncetions. >> > > File a bug for this one. > Done so. >> 2.) A suggestion on identifiers. >> As far as I can see the only way to process is to be prepaired to resend >> a message >> to handle IdentifierCollisions. Maybe it would allow clients to do >> cleaner processing >> if the node could be explicitely queried for identifiers. >> > > A single Name is a single client, full stop. We only allow one simultaneous > connection with the same Name. However, on the global queue, this is not the > case: many clients can be accessing it at once. So on the global queue, > probing for an identifier would not make sense. On the client queue, it might > make sense, although it would undoubtedly be faster to just send the request > and retry it if necessary. File a bug if it simplifies your client. > Done so. >> 3.) I already asked this question on Frost regarding translations and >> client / node >> locale. Why not let the client tell the node wich locale to use in a >> connection? IIRC >> nextgens responded something like: error messages are intended to be >> used by >> programmers only. >> > > At the moment FCP error messages aren't localised as far as I know. > Error messages No. Config strings Yes. >> Coding a bit deeper into Fcp I noticed all the strings being passed in >> ConfigData messages >> and feel like restating my point. Why double effords (horror ;-)when all >> these strings are >> already translated so nicely. Was: my american friend wants to talk to >> the greek node on >> my machine. >> > > The config strings are localised but not much else. If you want l10n for the > config strings, we could pass in the locale for that specific family of > commands? > Good idea. That could do the job. Plus might be aswell that it gets more likely that messages / tooltips / (...) are the same accross clients. >> 4.) from my wishlist: handle filename collisions. The node checks for >> TempFilename >> collisions for security reasons but IIRC does not check for Filename >> collisions when the >> request is complete. Anyway.. a flag would be nice indicating how to >> handle collisions of >> either one. Something like "HandleTmpFilenameCollisions=report | rename", >> "HandleFilenameCollisions=report | rename". Where rename does an >> automatic rename >> to "myTmpFilename (1)" / "myFilename (1)", reporting the final names on >> PersistentGet >> and DataFound. I know, "blah (1)" == ugly, but IMHO but that's what a >> client has to do >> anyways. >> > > Ignore the tempFilename, we've got rid of it iirc. Data is written to a random > filename related to the final filename, and then renamed. > True one can ignore it. But IIRC it is not random but "myfile.txt.tmp". Thus I have to handle collisions all the time. ClientGet:"SSK at ABC/myfile.txt" vs ClientGet:"SSK at XYZ/myfile.txt" > Well, if the file already exists, it could mean it was a bad filename, or it's > already been downloaded by another client. The desired handling could be > anything from rename it (IMHO this is not likely to be useful very often) Quite a common task when downloading. "SSK at ABC/myfile.txt" is very likely to be different content then "SSK at XYZ/myfile.txt". And even if it is not the use case decides how to handle collisions. If I run a client for downloading, "download again" is most likely to be interpreted as "I want another fresh copy". A mail or board client may have needs to interp it differently. > to > dump the old data to keep the old data in temporary space. The easiest thing > is if the rename fails, we just tell the client where the data is now (the > random temp filename). > That's an alternative. But maybe in this case it would be even handier if the node would not try to rename the temp file in the first place. Why not let the client decide what to do with the file. That is make the Filename field optional and pass the TempFilename along with DataFound? This would give both, the node and* the client free hands to do whatever might be necessary. I know it is messing up the current protocol, and I am truly sorry for that. But the prospect of simplifying ClientGet for disk downloads down to having to pass a directory and only* a directory is to tempting. It would make live of clients so much easier not having to deal with all these error codes and being prepaired to repetetively resend messages. I already filed a feature request regarding this: [https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=1894] Thanks, Juergen From jUrner at arcor.de Fri Nov 30 10:27:54 2007 From: jUrner at arcor.de (Juergen Urner) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:27:54 +0100 Subject: [Tech] Fcp notes and issues Message-ID: <474FE5AA.4020304@arcor.de> Matthew Toseland schrieb: > On Wednesday 28 November 2007 17:33, you wrote: > >>>> c. a minor point in relation to the initial listing of persistent requests. > >>>> Maybe a bit paranoid, but some client may have left an unknown number of >>>> requests >>>> laying around for the next client to run into. Somehow I would feel >>>> better if I could >>>> tell the node to only list a a specified set of requests and forget about >>>> all others. >>>> >>> This is why we have the Name field in the ClientHello. They are *your >>> requests* if your application is well-written and uses a unique and well >>> known Name. >>> >> Not necessarily my* requests. I filed a report regarding this >> [https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=1893]. >> Well-known-name is well known to who? I wouldn' t want to keep track of >> all names all clients >> may have in use when there is a better solution. >> > > There isn't a better solution, short of getting rid of Name's and using the > global queue for everything. Which really sucks - do you want your client to > have to deal with Frost's board refreshes? Of course not! > > If it is necessary for the project to maintain a registry of well known names > then we will do so, but really it's not so hard to produce a unique Name - if > all else fails, dd if=/dev/random bs=32 count=1 | md5sum ! > Project... Freenet wide? No ;-) Mabe misunderstandood somehow. All I am trying to point out is that for any name, even if consists of random bytes there is no guarantee that it is unique. Collisions will happen in between clients, no matter what and no problem about that. But a problem with the curent assumption: a client tries to reconnect, lets send a CloseConnectionDuplicateClientName message and close the pipe of the former client. ...and the second asumption: client connects, we got some persistents laying around for that name. Shurely he likes us passing them all. I left some notes regarding this in "How to deal with orphaned persistent requests?" [https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=1564] I don't know what exactly the node is able to store about a perststents (blocks transfered?). But as a client I shurely would like being able to to the same things, being able to restore user requests without the help of the node, bypassing all eventual troubles. On local queue, the only way to do this curently is storing identifiers of requests I know about to be prepaired to discard requests I don't know about. Maybe I am overlooking something, but as far as I can see, from a clients point of view collisions are currenly quite hard to handle and very easily overlooked. Juergen From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org Fri Nov 30 11:30:41 2007 From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 11:30:41 +0000 Subject: [Tech] Fcp notes and issues In-Reply-To: <474FE5AA.4020304@arcor.de> References: <474FE5AA.4020304@arcor.de> Message-ID: <200711301130.41406.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> If you can't come up with a unique name we can all use the global queue. Or we can have the node generate one for you - of course you'll have to store it somewhere. It's really not that hard! Frost can call itself "Frost" (instead of "hello"). Thaw can call itself "Thaw". jSite can call itself "jSite". And so on. On Friday 30 November 2007 10:27, Juergen Urner wrote: > > If it is necessary for the project to maintain a registry of well > known names > > then we will do so, but really it's not so hard to produce a unique > Name - if > > all else fails, dd if=/dev/random bs=32 count=1 | md5sum ! > > > > Project... Freenet wide? No ;-) > > Mabe misunderstandood somehow. All I am trying to point out is that for any > name, even if consists of random bytes there is no guarantee that it is > unique. If it consists of random bytes it is highly unlikely there will be a collision. > Collisions will happen in between clients, no matter what and no problem > about > that. Not if the clients are sensible. The whole point is so that clients don't have to worry about other clients' requests. > > But a problem with the curent assumption: a client tries to reconnect, > lets send > a CloseConnectionDuplicateClientName message and close the pipe of the > former client. Changing that behaviour does not help at all if two clients happen to run at the same time. One of them will lose the connection. > > ...and the second asumption: client connects, we got some persistents > laying > around for that name. Shurely he likes us passing them all. I left some > notes > regarding this in "How to deal with orphaned persistent requests?" > [https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=1564] Normally a client will connect, see that a bunch of persistent requests have completed for it, deal with them, and remove them from the queue. > > Maybe I am overlooking something, but as far as I can see, from a > clients point > of view collisions are currenly quite hard to handle and very easily > overlooked. Collisions result from one of two scenarios: 1) The client doesn't have a unique name. This is a bug in the client. 2) Two copies of the client are run simultaneously. FCP is intended to be used by one computer, clients which care about this can further uniquify their names by e.g. adding the local username. > > Juergen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/tech/attachments/20071130/fca9739b/attachment.pgp From jUrner at arcor.de Fri Nov 30 13:48:40 2007 From: jUrner at arcor.de (Juergen Urner) Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:48:40 +0100 Subject: [Tech] Fcp notes and issues In-Reply-To: <200711301130.41406.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> References: <474FE5AA.4020304@arcor.de> <200711301130.41406.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <475014B8.108@arcor.de> Matthew Toseland wrote: > > Collisions result from one of two scenarios: > 1) The client doesn't have a unique name. This is a bug in the client. > 2) Two copies of the client are run simultaneously. FCP is intended to be used > by one computer, clients which care about this can further uniquify their > names by e.g. adding the local username. > First of all, sorry for taking so much of your time. I am aware that this is a corner case. case1: if a client can not come up with names that are guaranteed to be unique within the client its a client bug. True. case2: Correct me if I am wrong, but I'd assume case two applies on unrelated clients aswell, not only on multiple instances of the same client. If my assumption is true, clients have to be prepaired to deal with the fact that a collision might happen the very next moment. Either this or the node takes over due to the fact that it is the only instance that can guarantee uniquness in this case. Sidenote: I know how to come up with a name that is highly likely to be unique. I implemented RFC 4122 in Python and am pretty much aware of the drill and the limitations of of any approach in this direction. Juergen