From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org Fri Sep 7 12:49:26 2007 From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 13:49:26 +0100 Subject: [freenet-chat] TorrentFreak: Comcast/Sandvine block bittorrent seeding Message-ID: <200709071349.31849.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> Seems to be on a traffic analysis level as it works on encrypted bittorrent - I wonder if this would block Freenet? http://torrentfreak.com/comcast-throttles-bittorrent-traffic-seeding-impossible/ http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18323368-Comcast-is-using-Sandvine-to-manage-P2P-Connections Thanks to whoever originally sent me this URL! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/chat/attachments/20070907/38424a24/attachment.pgp From nextgens at freenetproject.org Fri Sep 7 14:13:16 2007 From: nextgens at freenetproject.org (Florent =?iso-8859-1?Q?Daigni=E8re?=) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 16:13:16 +0200 Subject: [freenet-chat] TorrentFreak: Comcast/Sandvine block bittorrent seeding In-Reply-To: <200709071349.31849.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> References: <200709071349.31849.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070907141315.GA5747@freenetproject.org> * Matthew Toseland [2007-09-07 13:49:26]: > Seems to be on a traffic analysis level as it works on encrypted bittorrent - > I wonder if this would block Freenet? > > http://torrentfreak.com/comcast-throttles-bittorrent-traffic-seeding-impossible/ > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18323368-Comcast-is-using-Sandvine-to-manage-P2P-Connections > > Thanks to whoever originally sent me this URL! Nothing new as far as I can see ... killing TCP sessions sending out RSTs is what China has been doing for years! NextGen$ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/chat/attachments/20070907/31f5de1a/attachment.pgp From makosoft at googlemail.com Fri Sep 7 14:29:48 2007 From: makosoft at googlemail.com (Aidan Thornton) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 15:29:48 +0100 Subject: [freenet-chat] TorrentFreak: Comcast/Sandvine block bittorrent seeding In-Reply-To: <20070907141315.GA5747@freenetproject.org> References: <200709071349.31849.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> <20070907141315.GA5747@freenetproject.org> Message-ID: On 9/7/07, Florent Daigni?re wrote: > * Matthew Toseland [2007-09-07 13:49:26]: > > > Seems to be on a traffic analysis level as it works on encrypted bittorrent - > > I wonder if this would block Freenet? > > > > http://torrentfreak.com/comcast-throttles-bittorrent-traffic-seeding-impossible/ > > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18323368-Comcast-is-using-Sandvine-to-manage-P2P-Connections > > > > Thanks to whoever originally sent me this URL! > > Nothing new as far as I can see ... killing TCP sessions sending out > RSTs is what China has been doing for years! > The interesting bit is how they identify the connections to kill, particularly if encryption is in use. I reckon they could probably do most of the stuff they're advertising (most of the time) by monitoring the unencrypted communication with the tracker. Of course, this could result in them missing connections - particularly encrypted ones - or killing ones they shouldn't (for example, if it's set to prevent seeding and there are peers in common between a torrent a user is seeding to and one they're leeching from). Then again, they could be doing some sort of traffic analysis. (Of course, that'd probably have even more problems.) I think I saw an interesting comment on /. somewhere about that. Aidan (a.k.a. makomk) From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org Fri Sep 7 14:42:00 2007 From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 15:42:00 +0100 Subject: [freenet-chat] TorrentFreak: Comcast/Sandvine block bittorrent seeding In-Reply-To: <20070907142646.GC5747@freenetproject.org> References: <200709071349.31849.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> <200709071522.12900.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> <20070907142646.GC5747@freenetproject.org> Message-ID: <200709071542.05566.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> On Friday 07 September 2007 15:26, Florent Daigni?re wrote: > * Matthew Toseland [2007-09-07 15:22:06]: > > > On Friday 07 September 2007 15:13, you wrote: > > > * Matthew Toseland [2007-09-07 13:49:26]: > > > > > > > Seems to be on a traffic analysis level as it works on encrypted > > bittorrent - > > > > I wonder if this would block Freenet? > > > > > > > > > > http://torrentfreak.com/comcast-throttles-bittorrent-traffic-seeding-impossible/ > > > > > > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18323368-Comcast-is-using-Sandvine-to-manage-P2P-Connections > > > > > > > > Thanks to whoever originally sent me this URL! > > > > > > Nothing new as far as I can see ... killing TCP sessions sending out > > > RSTs is what China has been doing for years! > > > > The means of killing them isn't the interesting part. It's the means of > > detecting them that's of interest. > > As far as I know only "transport" is cyphered using RC4 ... access to > the tracker isn't (unless ssl is involved)... Well it's transport they are interfering with here.. > > by the way preventing seeding when transfert is over is trivial ... flow > analysis ... when you don't download, prevent "uploading". Detect that > it switches from a "symmetrical" pattern to an asymetrical one Exactly, it's traffic flow analysis. Widely deployed, cheap traffic flow analysis hardware kills us. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/chat/attachments/20070907/b9cefe40/attachment.pgp From nextgens at freenetproject.org Fri Sep 7 14:26:47 2007 From: nextgens at freenetproject.org (Florent =?iso-8859-1?Q?Daigni=E8re?=) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 16:26:47 +0200 Subject: [freenet-chat] TorrentFreak: Comcast/Sandvine block bittorrent seeding In-Reply-To: <200709071522.12900.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> References: <200709071349.31849.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> <20070907141315.GA5747@freenetproject.org> <200709071522.12900.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20070907142646.GC5747@freenetproject.org> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-encrypted Size: 11 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/chat/attachments/20070907/96716018/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: msg.asc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 3484 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/chat/attachments/20070907/96716018/attachment.obj From toad at amphibian.dyndns.org Fri Sep 7 14:51:01 2007 From: toad at amphibian.dyndns.org (Matthew Toseland) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 15:51:01 +0100 Subject: [freenet-chat] Fwd: Re: TorrentFreak: Comcast/Sandvine block bittorrent seeding Message-ID: <200709071551.01262.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: [freenet-chat] TorrentFreak: Comcast/Sandvine block bittorrent seeding Date: Friday 07 September 2007 15:26 From: Florent Daigni?re To: Matthew Toseland * Matthew Toseland [2007-09-07 15:22:06]: > On Friday 07 September 2007 15:13, you wrote: > > * Matthew Toseland [2007-09-07 13:49:26]: > > > > > Seems to be on a traffic analysis level as it works on encrypted > bittorrent - > > > I wonder if this would block Freenet? > > > > > > > http://torrentfreak.com/comcast-throttles-bittorrent-traffic-seeding-impossible/ > > > > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18323368-Comcast-is-using-Sandvine-to-manage-P2P-Connections > > > > > > Thanks to whoever originally sent me this URL! > > > > Nothing new as far as I can see ... killing TCP sessions sending out > > RSTs is what China has been doing for years! > > The means of killing them isn't the interesting part. It's the means of > detecting them that's of interest. As far as I know only "transport" is cyphered using RC4 ... access to the tracker isn't (unless ssl is involved)... by the way preventing seeding when transfert is over is trivial ... flow analysis ... when you don't download, prevent "uploading". Detect that it switches from a "symmetrical" pattern to an asymetrical one ------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/chat/attachments/20070907/837f66bb/attachment.pgp From scarreigns at gmail.com Sun Sep 9 04:41:17 2007 From: scarreigns at gmail.com (Taka Khumbartha) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 21:41:17 -0700 Subject: [freenet-chat] TorrentFreak: Comcast/Sandvine block bittorrent seeding In-Reply-To: <200709071349.31849.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> References: <200709071349.31849.toad@amphibian.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <46E3796D.30006@gmail.com> Matthew Toseland @ 2007/09/07 05:49: > Seems to be on a traffic analysis level as it works on encrypted bittorrent - > I wonder if this would block Freenet? > > http://torrentfreak.com/comcast-throttles-bittorrent-traffic-seeding-impossible/ > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18323368-Comcast-is-using-Sandvine-to-manage-P2P-Connections > sadly, this is most likely the beginning of the end of net neutrality[1], something comcast is known to be against. at&t, verizon, and now the US Justice dept. are also against it. google & microsoft are some big ones in support of it. also, see the recent at&t censorship of pearl jam's anti-bush rhetoric, from about a month ago[2] it's happening everywhere, and it needs to end. see http://www.savetheinternet.com/ also 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality 2. http://www.savetheinternet.com/blog/2007/08/09/att-plays-gatekeeper-censors-pearl-jam/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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