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[16:28] <nextgens> the debate on @devl is nonsense
[16:28] <toad_> which one?
[16:28] <toad_> did you read my piece about laptops?
[16:28] <nextgens> the one about multi-user systems
[16:28] <nextgens> toad_> anyway
[16:28] <toad_> well we just need a passworded login imho
[16:28] <nextgens> we are being deverted way too often
[16:29] <nextgens> the only acceptable answer is "send a patch" or fuck off and fill in a bug ticket on the BTS like others
[16:29] <toad_> hmmm?
[16:29] <nextgens> it's just like the testDDA thingy
[16:29] <toad_> well we can't really say that to ian now can we?
[16:30] <nextgens> something someone found nice at the time ... we had to implement immediately and we haven't finished to deal with
[16:30] <toad_> one good thing about the trend to laptops is they tend not to be multi-user systems
[16:30] <nextgens> toad_> the original poster wasn't ian
[16:30] <toad_> sure
[16:30] <toad_> it was michael
[16:30] <toad_> i respect michael but in this instance i disagree with him
[16:30] <nextgens> and if now the aim is at "short term objectives" to maximize gain, I don't see how it fits into the logic
[16:31] <toad_> it doesn't
[16:31] <nextgens> my rant isn't about the people :)
[16:31] <nextgens> it's about the proceedure
[16:31] <toad_> a login might happen towards the end of the UI refactoring
[16:31] <toad_> but i'm not working on the UI refactoring atm anyway
[16:31] <nextgens> it's not like he was the first to suggest it anywya :)
[16:31] <toad_> i do think that shutting down the node just because somebody else logs in is unacceptable
[16:32] <toad_> if somebody else has sufficient rights then they can kill it manually
[16:32] <nextgens> the main problem is that windows users are used to multi-tasking but not multi-user environments
[16:32] * toad_ is getting tons of "Waited too long for a blocking send"
[16:32] <toad_> i think it might be a single peer... argh it's at least two peers...
[16:32] <nextgens> on a *nix system you don't even ask for others to shut their processes down
[16:33] <nextgens> you just can't do it
[16:33] <nextgens> unless you're r00t
[16:33] <nextgens> and the irony of the story is that most of the time the user is sharing the cpu with his OS...
[16:34] <nextgens> and he is used to it
[16:34] <toad_> hehe
[16:34] <nextgens> I hardly ever see a user complaining about windows "hanging" for no valid reason doing nothing
[16:35] <toad_> hmmm?
[16:36] <toad_> how important is it to optimise inserts?
[16:36] <toad_> if i don't optimise them now then i'll have to optimise them later and likely have some back compatibility issues - probably keep both structures for a while
[16:36] <nextgens> the user finds "normal" for his processor to be monopolized in order to display some graphic effect instead of actually doing what has been resquested
[16:37] <toad_> by now vs later i mean before vs after merging db4o
[16:37] <nextgens> it affects client-layer: do it after the merge
[16:37] <nextgens> is it clear that the merge is going to happen at this stage?
[16:37] <toad_> nextgens: i mean do i do it in the db4o branch, prior to the merge?
[16:38] <toad_> or in trunk afterwards?
[16:38] <nextgens> or are you still doubtful about the validity of the "db4o" solution?
[16:38] <toad_> no, i'm confident that it's an improvement at least for requests
[16:38] <nextgens> I suggest you do it after the merge to trunk
[16:38] <nextgens> we don't want to keep branches around for no valid reason
[16:38] <nextgens> I assume you master the new client-layer now that it has just been rewritten
[16:39] <toad_> even if it means maintenance later? well, the longer we keep the branch open the more maintenance we have to do there...
[16:39] <nextgens> hence it shouldn't be worth branching :)
[16:39] <nextgens> yeah
[16:39] <toad_> heh well i wrote it in the first place :)
[16:39] <nextgens> ...
[16:39] <nextgens> and you're the only one understanding the magic involved there :)
[16:39] <nextgens> I hope the new design is clearer :)
[16:40] <toad_> ok so what is vital *before* merging? garbage collection of persistent structures, garbage collection of temp files, make sure largish directory inserts work, make sure large inserts work
[16:40] <nextgens> what do you mean by large?
[16:40] <nextgens> >4G?
[16:40] <toad_> 4G or so yeah
[16:41] <nextgens> hmmm
[16:41] <toad_> -rw-r--r-- 1 browser browser 4.4G 2008-09-27 07:03 /usr/local/temp/jigdo/debian-40r4a-amd64-DVD-1.iso
[16:41] <nextgens> my /stats/ page shows some clustering
[16:41] <nextgens> what about yours?
[16:41] <toad_> well it only shows darknet peers
[16:41] <toad_> so clustering might happen
[16:41] <toad_> without there being any problem
[16:42] <nextgens> sure
[16:42] <toad_> mine shows a whole bunch of nodes at 0.5
[16:42] <Artefact2> yes, mine too at 0.4
[16:42] <nextgens> but it's still worrying that the darknet is contained to a small subset of the keyspace
[16:42] <nextgens> same thing here
[16:42] <toad_> brb
[16:42] <toad_> nextgens: why?
[16:42] <toad_> pure darknet nodes...
[16:42] <toad_> brb anyway
[16:42] <nextgens> well, we still randomize locations
[16:43] <nextgens> and they shouldn't go away as chrun ought to be minimal on darknet
[16:44] <nextgens> my hands hurt; I wonder what that household product is made of
[16:45] <toad_> no
[16:45] <toad_> the random locations will go away because of swapping
[16:45] <toad_> random reset isn't intended to cause drift, it's intended to prevent false optima
[16:45] <toad_> normally the node will come back to where it should be
[16:46] <toad_> do you agree with my analysis w.r.t. laptops on devl?
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[17:09] <nextgens> mostly
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[17:33] <qn> Hi. Seems to be off-topic, but where can one get some SSK's for FMS? All the initial identitys seems to be dead.
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[19:24] <apm12> Hello, are freenet packages for debian exists?
[19:27] <nextgens> no
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[23:28] <TheSeeker> for toad: http://dark-code.bulix.org/5dgrjf-68491
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