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[0:00] <FreenetLogBot> The monitoring script has detected that http://mirror2.freenetproject.org/ is eligible to be back on the main mirror rotation list. Welcome Back!
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[0:48] <dkf> Anyone know any alternatives to openDHT?
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[1:11] <toad_> dkf: ummm, freenet? :)
[1:11] <toad_> what's opendht?
[1:12] <toad_> | In contrast to the usual DHT model, clients of OpenDHT do not need to run a DHT node in order to use the service. Instead, they can issue put and get operations to any DHT node, which processes the operations on their behalf.
[1:12] <toad_> ah
[1:12] <toad_> that wouldn't work for u
[1:12] <toad_> us
[1:12] <toad_> it does however more or less work for Tor
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[1:17] <dkf> does freenet have a dht?
[1:25] <infinity0> openDHT handles churn better than freenet i think though
[1:26] <infinity0> (nodes frequently joinig/leaving)
[1:29] <dkf> well, openDHT is purpose built to be a dht
[1:30] <dkf> not a distribute cache or routing network or anything else
[1:30] <dkf> but it looks like openDHT is dieing, if you look at the mailing list
[1:31] <infinity0> any network needs users to sustain it; i thought openDHT was an academic research project anyways
[1:31] <dkf> so, I'm looking for alternatives.. I'm starting to think I should just piggy back on some other commonly used network
[1:31] <infinity0> "get/set a key" doesn't exactly appeal to normal people
[1:31] <infinity0> freenet is good, it could do with growth :)
[1:31] <infinity0> a bit slow but i hear that's mainly due to most people still being on 0.5
[1:32] <dkf> it's the chicken and the egg problem.. you need users to have a dht, you need a dht to have users.. that's why there should be an openDHT out there.. to help bootstrap new p2p programs
[1:32] <infinity0> oh yeah good point
[1:32] <dkf> or.... why don't various p2p apps band together and bind all there dhts into one?
[1:33] <infinity0> it would be good but there's not enough communication between the projects i guess
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[1:33] <infinity0> maybe you could try to contact various people and try to link them up? :)
[1:33] <dkf> Not all projects have to do it... but it'd be good I suppose.. well
[1:34] <dkf> does freenet have an unencrypted put/get dht interface that someone like me could use? no hops or anything.. just for rendezvous purposes between clients.
[1:35] <dkf> no anonymization
[1:36] <dkf> I know i2p does, but I don't know how long that'll last with jrandom gone
[1:42] <infinity0> i dunno
[1:42] <infinity0> g2g, dad needs to use net, cya laters
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[1:48] <dkf> lates
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[16:29] <Vauge> is frost still included in freenet 0.7 1154?
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[17:48] <Vauge> is frost still included in freenet 0.7 1154?
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[17:57] <beala> not sure, but no one uses frost anymore.
[17:58] <Luke771> some do
[17:58] <Luke771> non-english communities, mostly
[17:59] <Luke771> for instance, I know for sure that French boards aren't being DoS'd and the French guys still use Frost
[18:01] <beala> ah touche
[18:16] <Vauge> yeah french is pretty dominant according to the post-trackers, but I'd like to have it anyway.
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[20:09] <amphibian> anyone got any bright ideas on how to resolve the wierd vista errors reported on support@ ?
[20:09] <amphibian> me installing Vista is not an acceptable way forward! :)
[20:11] <kork> I could give you rdp access to a vista system..
[20:14] <amphibian> hmmm
[20:14] <amphibian> even if you did it probably wouldn't exhibit the same bugs as the reports...
[20:14] <FreenetLogBot> r21586 (1154) was built successfully on emu, mirrors are updating
[20:14] <amphibian> freenet *does* work on Vista *sometimes* ...
[20:15] <kork> dunno, haven't read them
[20:20] <reflect> I may be wrong, but if one is truly concerned about privacy (hence using freenet) isn't running freenet on a windows machine sort of an oxymoron?
[20:22] <reflect> sure, whatever you do on freenet may be private, but if you watch a movie with their mediaplayer, it gets sent back to microsoft.. and other examples
[20:23] <reflect> it seems to me that running freenet on windows sort of creates an illusion of privacy.. which could be dangerous.
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[20:41] <Vauge> reflect: just because the info goes back to microsoft doesn't mean your ISP or gov gets to track it
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[20:41] <Vauge> besides you don't have to use windows media player
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[20:42] <kork> newest wmp is pretty good though I have to admit
[20:42] <reflect> how is it better that a company gets the information? and, there are more than one example of this kind of "phone home" activity with regards to Windows
[20:43] * Vauge hasn't used wmp much prefers vlc for almost everything
[20:45] <Vauge> the idea isn't that an individual company will get information about a certain type of file your using....its more about big brother not knowing everything your doing on the net regardless of whether that big brother is the government or your ISP
[20:46] <reflect> why would you include an ISP there, and not the maker of your OS? what's the difference?
[20:47] <reflect> http://www.computerbytesman.com/privacy/wmp8dvd.htm < take a peek at this article
[20:47] <Vauge> lets use an analogy of credit cards.....if 1 company knows everything you spend money on they can paint a pretty complete picture of who you are and what you do....but if you use several forms of payment sometimes cash sometimes check and sometimes various credit cards it becomes much more difficult to figure out what your doing
[20:47] <reflect> it's not just about file types, it's the exact name of the movie, tied to an exact computer
[20:48] <Vauge> the same is true of your ISP if they know everything you do and everywhere you go they can get a real clear picture of who you are on the net....but break that up...use several different paths and it becomes much more difficult
[20:48] <reflect> Vauge, I like your analogy. it's good. but isn't using windows, helping them? unless you really know where and which of their programs that really does phone home?
[20:49] <Vauge> probably, but with microsoft its a lessor of 2 evils and it still wouldn't be a complete picture
[20:50] <reflect> as a consumer of a closed source OS, it's really hard to know what gets sent back.. thus I think using freenet on a windows machine.. creates a false illusion of privacy... you think you're safe, but.. perhaps you're not
[20:50] <Vauge> or not as complete as your ISP or gov could get by monitoring your (everyone's) connection
[20:50] <reflect> I don't like "lesser of two evils" comparisons
[20:50] <reflect> it doesn't apply here
[20:51] <reflect> if you use windows, you expose yourself to certain risks, period.. risks that you do NOT expose yourself to using most other operating systems
[20:52] <Vauge> you think microsoft could ruin your life the way a district attorney or out of control FBI could?
[20:54] <reflect> I'm not american, I don't care about the FBI.. they're powerless here. it's the principal of sending out involuntary information
[20:54] <Vauge> I use *nix, but it doesn't mean I'm any more protected than an MS user......its an assumption based on an image of *nix being better not any scientific comparison I'm aware of
[20:56] <reflect> many unix OSes has code audits done by others.. often independent people, there to find security holes or whatever.. if you're really savvy, you could audit the code yourself, if you had the time.
[20:57] <reflect> unless you're using a closed sourced *nix OS
[20:58] <Vauge> the OS itself maybe closed, but there is still action-logging in most *nix and you'd have to make certain each and every app is audited as well
[20:58] <Vauge> err not closed,,,I meant secure
[21:00] <reflect> well, I think that by using windows, you're seriously harming your chance of privacy - unless you really know what you're doing, and what applications to avoid
[21:01] <reflect> and if you use freenet on windows, you're creating a very dangerous illusion of privacy, which could really harm you if you live in the wrong country
[21:03] <Vauge> if your argument is that all forms of windows are inherently insecure, and that many apps only make that worse....I agree completely, regardless using freenet is a good first step to obscuring what your doing on the internet which is the primary source of information gathering by all sorts of people and agencies
[21:04] <Vauge> additionally outside the US *nix usage jumps to 30% or better
[21:07] <Vauge> ooh bad # on my part sorry even outside US the % of *nix machines seems to be well less than 30%
[21:08] <reflect> thank you, I was starting to wonder :)
[21:09] <reflect> I would argue well less than 2%
[21:09] <Vauge> lol thats what happens when you rely on memory for statistics
[21:11] <Vauge> well http://news.softpedia.com/news/Linux-to-Finally-Kill-Windows-in-Europe-66574.shtml puts windows at 94% worldwide and some countries in the high 20% range
[21:12] <Vauge> my bad the high 20% range was pirated MS systems
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[21:14] <Vauge> but it looks like Dell now offers ubuntu as an OS choice and many servers have had various *nix releases as a choice for years
[21:14] <reflect> Sun too, along with Solaris
[21:15] <reflect> they're making a dent
[21:16] <Vauge> with wine and open office, I think *nix is just about ready for prime time....now its a matter of getting support staff in place to deal with *nix as easily as MS
[21:17] <Vauge> vista will probably prove to be the best thing for *nix since MS couldn't make up its mind about 2000/xp/millenium
[21:17] <reflect> that part is probably easier as it's more logical.. it's often easier to reproduce an error on linux as it actually tells you what's going on in logs and via system traces or whatever
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[21:20] <Vauge> I don't know about that, problems with windows are more monolithic than with *nix....if you have a windows OS problem you can pretty well guess there are 1000 hits on google about it whether MS admits it or not....with *nix you've got so many releases and contributors that dependency problems can be very obscure
[21:21] <reflect> sorry, that's not my experience at all
[21:21] <reflect> if a problem is found in a software and I google for it, and I get a hit for some other OS, it usually works
[21:22] <Vauge> well your probably much better at dealing with *nix than I am (I'd be willing to bet on it) to me much of it is still black magic
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[21:23] <reflect> don't worry.. it'll come to you with experience
[21:24] <Vauge> I expect it will, this is my 3rd or 4th try with *nix. I've been running Ubuntu (yeah go ahead and sneer) for about 2 months and this is the first release that has gotten more use than my MS box at first release....and that whole ease of use thing is the key for me
[21:27] <reflect> I won't sneer, I think ubuntu is really good
[21:27] <reflect> I've been using various OSes for 10 years now, and I think ubuntu more or less hits the spot
[21:28] <reflect> it's user-oriented, it helps you when you get stuck, most of the time.. makes life easy. it doesn't always get it right, but they try, more so than any other I've seen to date
[21:30] <Vauge> I think it is really good too, and I think that so long as people don't start saying things like 'netscape will become the dominate OS' MS will be asleep at the wheel long enough that it may be to late to stop when Ubuntu hits mainstream conciousness
[21:31] <Vauge> but I do wonder what MS will do when that time comes...probably lots of law suits regarding software copyrights
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[21:33] <billoutre_> bonsoir
[21:33] <billoutre_> hello
[21:34] <pmpp> billoutre_> #freenet-fr
[21:34] <Vauge> did you know in england its more expensive to buy an open source machine than a windows machine
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[21:41] <reflect> Vauge, how?
[21:41] <reflect> or why?
[21:42] <Vauge> software patents
[21:46] <reflect> if I buy a computer here and opt to not have an OS, I take a good chunk out of the price
[21:46] <reflect> but you say "open source machine" and that's different... I guess that means redhat or something?
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[22:18] <Vauge> my mistake on that open source more expensive....I had thought that british users were required to pay software patent fees, which could theoretically make open source packages more expensive.....what I was reading was hyperbolic prediction of what could happen.
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[23:48] <StorSnoken> hello guys
[23:48] <StorSnoken> anyone awake?
[23:56] * DaffyDuck_ (n=jan@) Quit ("Zzzzzzz....")
[23:57] <Dieppe> StorSnoken: what di you wanna know ?
[23:57] <Dieppe> doł
[23:57] <Dieppe> erf
[23:57] <StorSnoken> Dieppe nothing, i got help :)
[23:57] <Dieppe> l
[23:57] <Dieppe> erf
[23:57] <Dieppe> k
[23:59] <Dieppe> I'm totally hgh, but if you ask something in the 10 next min I'll answer
[23:59] <Dieppe> high**
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