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[4:22] <FreenetLogBot> The monitoring script has detected that http://mirror1.freenetproject.org/ is eligible to be back on the main mirror rotation list. Welcome Back!
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[11:26] <nextgens> awa
[11:34] <toad_> hi
[11:34] <zerwas> hi
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[11:40] <nextgens> juil. 22, 2008 11:34:53:657 (freenet.node.FNPPacketMangler, UdpSocketHandler for port 5001(1), MINOR): Data length: 14739 (1 = 57 2 = 147)
[11:40] <nextgens> juil. 22, 2008 11:34:53:657 (freenet.node.FNPPacketMangler, UdpSocketHandler for port 5001(1), MINOR): Invalid data length 14739 (1108) in tryProcessAuth
[11:40] <nextgens> wtf?
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[12:43] <p0siX> hello everybody
[12:43] <p0siX> gimme please a link howto use freenet on debian etch/lenny
[12:44] <p0siX> is it some deb package exist?
[12:44] <toad_> no up to date debian package exists, please download it from the web site
[12:44] <p0siX> ok
[12:44] <toad_> install sun-java5-jre or sun-java6-jre first
[12:44] <p0siX> thanx
[12:45] <toad_> and update-alternatives --config java to select it
[12:45] <p0siX> i want to be free :)
[12:45] <toad_> well, some versions of openjdk have issues with freenet
[12:45] <toad_> as do almost all free java's
[12:46] <toad_> i.e. gcj, kaffe etc
[12:46] <p0siX> i heard few days later that openjdk entered in sid
[12:46] <p0siX> oh
[12:46] <p0siX> not later
[12:46] <toad_> it's possible to run it on gcj, but there are additional bugs
[12:46] <p0siX> earlier
[12:46] <p0siX> sorry
[12:46] <p0siX> i dont know english)
[12:47] <p0siX> toad_ i dont know software without bugs :)
[12:47] <toad_> some versions of openjdk will work with freenet, but it's usually easier to just get the sun java
[12:47] <p0siX> ok
[12:47] <p0siX> ill try
[12:47] <p0siX> thanx
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[13:28] <twelfth_monkey> ?
[13:29] <mrdmx> ?
[13:29] <mrdmx> !
[13:30] <twelfth_monkey> :-D accidentally hit the key
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[17:48] <trickster06> I have problem installing freenet, am i in the right place for help ?
[17:48] <mrdmx> yes
[17:48] <trickster06> ok it says that my jvm is buggy...
[17:49] <mrdmx> yeah get suns
[17:49] <trickster06> i think it is the sun jvm, i downloaded it form the sun site
[17:50] <mrdmx> os?
[17:50] <trickster06> solaris express developper edition
[17:51] <mrdmx> hmm no idea
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[17:55] <trickster06> ok uname -a gives me SunOS sxde 5.11 snv_70b
[17:55] <trickster06> if you have no idea where can i get help ??
[17:56] <Cooo> trickster What does java -version gives you?
[18:00] <trickster06> java version "1.6.0.10-beta"
[18:01] <trickster06> Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 11.0-b12, mixed mode, sharing)
[18:01] <nextgens> hrrmm
[18:01] <nextgens> that's weird
[18:02] <nextgens> trickster06> could you do the following please ?
[18:02] <trickster06> yes
[18:02] <nextgens> get http://downloads.freenetproject.org//alpha/installer/freenet07.tar.gz
[18:02] <nextgens> untar it in a new directory
[18:02] <nextgens> and run :
[18:03] <nextgens> java -cp Sha1test.jar Sha1Test update.sh /tmp startssl.pem
[18:03] <nextgens> and of course pastebin the result :)
[18:04] <trickster06> ok i try :)
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[18:11] <trickster06> Importing startssl.pem into /var/tmp/keystore50463.tmp The CA has been imported into the trustStore Fetching update.sh https://checksums.freenetproject.org/latest/update.sh.sha1
[18:11] <nextgens> trickster06> and then ?
[18:11] <trickster06> back to the prompt
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[18:12] <trickster06> nothing else
[18:13] <nextgens> can you do "echo $?" right after it please ?
[18:13] <nextgens> (with no command in between this one and the java one)
[18:14] <nextgens> hmm
[18:14] <trickster06> i got 0
[18:14] <nextgens> solaris might not have bash in fact
[18:14] <nextgens> okay
[18:14] <nextgens> that's bad
[18:14] <trickster06> :(
[18:14] <nextgens> does /tmp/update.sh exist ? is it empty ?
[18:16] <trickster06> yes it exists and its not empty its got script and certificate
[18:16] <nextgens> can you pastebin the file "jvmerror" which is inside the directory you attempted to install freenet to please?
[18:16] <nextgens> okay
[18:16] <nextgens> so the problem is somewhere else
[18:18] <trickster06> in jvmerror i've got "Not found, let's ignore that mirror." several times and "No mirror is available at the moment please try again later"
[18:20] <nextgens> I suggest you retry the installer once again in a different directory
[18:20] <nextgens> you've probably experienced a network glitch at some point
[18:20] <nextgens> and the installer got confused blaming your jvm
[18:21] <trickster06> alright i 'll try again thanks for your help
[18:21] <nextgens> please report back whatever the result is :)
[18:21] <nextgens> I've never tried it on solaris
[18:22] <trickster06> i also experienced other problem during installation and setup
[18:22] <trickster06> with setup.sh
[18:22] <trickster06> it had a line if test -e
[18:22] <trickster06> and this didnt work
[18:22] <trickster06> i changed it to if test -f
[18:22] <trickster06> and it was better
[18:23] <trickster06> but i m not really familiar with shell scripting so....
[18:23] <nextgens> that's weird, checkbashism didn't complain about that one
[18:23] <nextgens> can you try "echo $SHELL" please?
[18:23] <nextgens> what's the result ?
[18:24] <nextgens> csh?
[18:25] <trickster06> "/bin/bash"
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[19:29] <banyan> hello... I think I know the answer to this, but if I'm halfway done a download and I restart my freenet, I'll end up starting the download over again won't I?
[19:29] <banyan> as opposed to resuming it where I left off before I shut down...
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[19:33] <banyan> or do the blocks that were already stored locally come very quickly back into the download? Things seem to be rapidly going back to where they were. :-)
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[19:35] <toad_> banyan: i think you've answered your own question
[19:35] <toad_> banyan: there is work going on on using a database to store the state of a download, so that it resumes much faster
[19:36] <toad_> there are still bugs and optimisation issues to deal with, but it should be ready soon (within a month at most)
[19:36] <banyan> well, it looked disappointingly like everything restarts at first, but then when I refreshed, things were along too far to explain purely by re-downloading.
[19:36] <toad_> there are people testing it on #freenet-testers
[19:38] <banyan> otherwise the gotcha with freenet would be that its use could be effectively prevented by any condition that made it necessary to restart in less time than a substantial download would take to complete.
[19:40] <banyan> and although I have two specific ports forwarded in my router, freenet still complains about one of them. I find that odd.
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[19:44] <banyan> oh, right, I need to have friends for the one port to do anything. ;-) What kind of install base does this thing have?
[19:45] <mrdmx> yes
[19:49] <toad_> banyan: thousands, we think
[19:50] <toad_> not likely to be vastly more than that
[19:50] <toad_> online at one time might be 1000, or it might be more
[19:51] <banyan> gotcha. I'm just thinking what the chances are of finding a "friend" who's actually a friend rather than a "myspace friend" kinda friend.
[19:51] <toad_> well casual acquaintance is fine ... what doesn't work is going to an irc channel specifically to find somebody
[19:52] <banyan> agreed.
[19:52] <banyan> it
[19:53] <banyan> it's too much like Mr. Mabutu from Nigeria trying to find somebody to receive his deceased uncle's estate.
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[19:55] <toad_> :)
[19:55] <toad_> talented cop seeks criminals for covert surveillance...
[19:57] <mrdmx> is this oil on canvas? http://www.searchlores.org/images/pp_002.jpeg
[19:57] <mrdmx> ah, wrong channel
[19:57] <mrdmx> :)
[19:57] <toad_> #freenet-chat for off topic stuff
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[20:59] <volt> Hi, I'm under Debian and i'm just on the configuration screen. It asks me how many space I want allows the datastore to take. How to change the datastore dir please, my /home is a lot bigger than my /usr
[21:05] <ryanakca> How would you recommend I add ``friends'' if I'm the only person (that I know of) who uses freenet? I can't stick a blurb on my blog asking, since that would make it known that I freenet, and they wouldn't be people I know...
[21:05] <ryanakca> I guess the only way would be to get others using freenet?
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[21:18] <daltonlaffs> yo. How many people here are actually here?
[21:18] <ryanakca> daltonlaffs: 63 nicks, how many are present, who knows
[21:18] <ryanakca> better off asking your question and then someone might answer when they appear :)
[21:19] <daltonlaffs> figured that much. I had some technical questions about freenet that are pushing my curiosity to its limits, mostly the download/upload protocol
[21:19] <nextgens> it's documented on the wiki
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[21:19] <nextgens> you're looking for FCP there :)
[21:19] <daltonlaffs> the specification is documented?
[21:20] <daltonlaffs> it's not registering in my head how the files are getting from one PC to another is why I'm looking, by the way.
[21:20] <nextgens> the client protocol is documented
[21:20] <Mr_Giraffe> hmm
[21:20] <daltonlaffs> got a Freenet link to the article(s), nextgens?
[21:20] <Mr_Giraffe> still having this problem with thunderbird and FMS
[21:20] <nextgens> the in-between node protocol isn't
[21:20] <Mr_Giraffe> where it's saying my identity is invalid
[21:21] <nextgens> daltonlaffs> no freenet link, sorry : http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetSpecifications
[21:21] <nextgens> http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetFCPSpec2Point0
[21:21] <daltonlaffs> works for me ^^, thanks
[21:23] <daltonlaffs> oh, I think I get it. So the file survival system is the same as BitTorrent's, in the sense that you upload what you've downloaded?
[21:24] <nextgens> no
[21:24] <nextgens> :)
[21:24] <daltonlaffs> then explain, I'm missing something :P
[21:24] <nextgens> on freenet the file's persitence depends on its popularity
[21:24] <Mr_Giraffe> does anybody else use thunderbird for FMS? D:
[21:24] <nextgens> but contrary to bittorent you don't have to actually "seed"
[21:25] <daltonlaffs> then how does the file end up coming from two nodes instead of one?
[21:25] <nextgens> requesting a file is enough for getting it cached on the path
[21:25] <nextgens> you're thinking in terms of "files" whereas both bittorent and freenet deal with "blocks/chunks" :)
[21:26] <daltonlaffs> well, if the file is 100% downloaded, you have all the blocks, which is what I'm referring to
[21:26] <nextgens> sure
[21:26] <nextgens> you've got 100% of the file but that's not what's stored on the network
[21:27] <nextgens> there is 200% of your file on the network
[21:27] <daltonlaffs> how did that happen? o.o
[21:27] <nextgens> (freenet use forward error correction algorithm)
[21:27] <sleon> FEC
[21:27] <daltonlaffs> ah, so the second 100 is verification?
[21:28] <nextgens> no, it's redundancy blocks
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[21:28] <daltonlaffs> bleh... as a programmer and not a network specialist, I can say you've lost me.
[21:28] <nextgens> sorry about that
[21:28] <sleon> daltonlaffs: these are theb asics
[21:28] <sleon> :)
[21:28] <daltonlaffs> that much figures :P
[21:28] <nextgens> daltonlaffs> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed%E2%80%93Solomon_error_correction :)
[21:29] <nextgens> I suggest you read that wikipedia page
[21:29] <daltonlaffs> anyway, let's just see if you can't put the answer to my question into idiot-proof words... when you download a file, does your computer help keep the file alive?
[21:29] <nextgens> yes
[21:30] <nextgens> but indirectly
[21:30] <daltonlaffs> does it upload to anyone else who tries to download it, or just provide some kind of hyperlink to data?
[21:30] <nextgens> the action of requesting it does help the file to stay on the network
[21:30] <nextgens> it encourages the peers on the path to keep the blocks consitituting the file in cache
[21:30] <daltonlaffs> hm, so your personal computer never uploads things you've downloaded?
[21:31] <daltonlaffs> oh, wait
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[21:31] <nextgens> it might but it's not its main job
[21:31] <daltonlaffs> noooow I think I'm getting this
[21:32] <nextgens> contrary to bittorent you don't need "seeding people" for a file to be downloadable
[21:32] <daltonlaffs> so you're saying that clients are persuading each other to keep certain data in their caches, then that is uploaded from the cache to other clients?
[21:32] <nextgens> it's a bit more complex than that but yes, it's the basic idea
[21:33] <nextgens> the storage space on the network is limited hence some data has to fall off
[21:33] <nextgens> and the only way to ensure that the data doesn't disapear is to request it on a regular basis
[21:33] <daltonlaffs> I thought Freenet was decentralized?
[21:33] <nextgens> it is decentralized
[21:34] <nextgens> how is that incompatible with what I've just written? :p
[21:34] <volt> I'm sorry, but when I replace node.storeDir=datastore by node.storeDir=/home/datastore, freenet doesn't work anymore
[21:34] <daltonlaffs> oh, sorry. For the record, I've been awake for nearly 17 hours now and have had absolutely no coffee :\
[21:35] <daltonlaffs> @volt: Umm, did you create the /home/datastore directory and give yourself ownership?
[21:35] <FreenetLogBot> The monitoring script has detected a network glitch on http://88.198.34.102/~mirror/ : it has been disabled
[21:35] <FreenetLogBot> The monitoring script has detected a network glitch on http://mirror3.freenetproject.org/ : it has been disabled
[21:35] <daltonlaffs> unless you're running freenet as root, it can't make folders in /home.
[21:37] <daltonlaffs> by the way, remembered another (hopefully simple) question
[21:38] <daltonlaffs> if you, say, didn't have "insecure mode" on, and you linked with a few friends, how would any of you have access to Freenet if none of you have insecure mode?
[21:40] <nextgens> I'm a dev; I don't have any problem to find people to peer to
[21:40] <daltonlaffs> that's not quite the question
[21:40] <daltonlaffs> if none of your peers have insecure mode on and you don't either, how would any of you access Freenet? Other than the data you all already have, how would you collect new data?
[21:41] <nextgens> well, you're supposed to ask your friends if they run a freenet node (and if they don't get them to :p)
[21:41] <Caco_Patane> daltonlaffs, one of your friends can be running an "insecure" node
[21:41] <Caco_Patane> or one of the friends of a friend :)
[21:41] <nextgens> daltonlaffs> you don't know all your friend's friends, do you ?
[21:41] <daltonlaffs> ok, that's pretty much the question's answer.
[21:42] <daltonlaffs> and I don't have any registered peers yet ^^;
[21:42] <daltonlaffs> I just started using Freenet about 6 hours ago.
[21:43] <daltonlaffs> assuming there's no Nintendo-esque peer exchange, I'm not entirely sure how anyone would get peers either.
[21:44] <ryanakca> How would you recommend I add ``friends'' if I'm the only person (that I know of) who uses freenet? I can't stick a blurb on my blog asking, since that would make it known that I freenet, and they wouldn't be people I know... I gues the only way would be to get others I know to use freenet?
[21:45] <daltonlaffs> @ryanakca: My question exactly, and that's what I assumed. If there isn't some kind of peer exchange, I'll totally make one ^.^
[21:50] <FreenetLogBot> The monitoring script has detected a network glitch on http://mirror1.freenetproject.org/ : it has been disabled
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[21:52] <nextgens> daltonlaffs> we don't *want* automatic peer exchange to happen with strangers
[21:52] <nextgens> it's not any more secure than with opennet
[21:53] <nextgens> ryanakca> getting your friends to use freenet is definitly the way to go :)
[21:53] <nextgens> +e
[21:54] <daltonlaffs> nextgens: That's not the idea at all.
[21:55] <ryanakca> nextgens: *nod*, however, most of my friends are the type of people who couldn't care less that their whole life is plastered on facebook, don't care if something is under an open license or no, and would go ``it's so slowww...'' :/
[21:55] <FreenetLogBot> The monitoring script has detected a network glitch on http://mirror4.freenetproject.org/ : it has been disabled
[21:55] <daltonlaffs> Now that I understand the protocol, making a peer exchange is actually the best idea I have. Make 'peer groups' that allow people to choose Freenet sites that they visit frequently, then exchange peers between the groups. That will allow faster download speeds for those specific sites.
[21:55] <nextgens> daltonlaffs> sorry, I missunderstood what you meant by Nitendo-esque then
[21:56] <daltonlaffs> heh, sorry, I wasn't clear.
[21:56] <daltonlaffs> anyway, unless there are any reasonable objections to my peer grouping idea, I think I'll try that. Do Freenet sites allow PHP if it's your server?
[21:57] <nextgens> daltonlaffs> files are encrypted and split into chunks
[21:57] <nextgens> those chunks are stored on the network depending on their hash
[21:57] <daltonlaffs> so that's a no. Then what could I use for automation? Or do I need to rely on a non-FN site?
[21:58] <nextgens> peer groupping won't help as the distribution of the hashes is even
[21:58] <nextgens> well, no; really it's not a bright idea to do that on freenet
[21:59] <daltonlaffs> hm, not quite sure I follow... if everyone in the group downloads files from the same sites, wouldn't they all have the corresponding data to trade?
[21:59] <nextgens> what you could do which would be useful is to write a facebook applet to tell your friends that you do run freenet
[21:59] <nextgens> and to get them to connect to you :)
[21:59] <nextgens> yes they would
[21:59] <nextgens> their node would have the data
[21:59] <nextgens> but that's not where your node is going to look for it
[22:00] <nextgens> so it's not likely to be any faster than if it was "some random guy"
[22:00] <daltonlaffs> bleh, this protocol is getting more and more complicated as it's being explained to me
[22:00] <nextgens> moreover keep in mind that freenet is about anonymity and censorship resistence
[22:01] <nextgens> we/you don't want all the people interrested in the same kind of data to be peered together
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[22:01] <nextgens> that's how people get caught :)
[22:01] <daltonlaffs> ne, good point there
[22:02] <daltonlaffs> which means it'd be that much easier for a law enforcer to find the warez distributors, I guess :P
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[22:04] <nextgens> freenet's goal isn't to prevent warez distributors to get caught
[22:05] <nextgens> repeat after me: copyright infringment is *bad*
[22:05] <nextgens> warez is bad
[22:05] <FreenetLogBot> The monitoring script has detected that http://mirror3.freenetproject.org/ is eligible to be back on the main mirror rotation list. Welcome Back!
[22:05] <daltonlaffs> yeah, I know, I'm not that into warez, I pay for software I use :P, but I was saying that on behalf of the warez-ers
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[22:08] <daltonlaffs> by the way, is Hybrid a dead project? Reading these rules REALLY makes me want to play it, but the download link isn't working.
[22:08] * caytchen_ (n=caytchen@) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[22:08] <nextgens> what's Hybrid?
[22:09] <daltonlaffs> it's a RPG sort of game with a ton of crazy and elaborate rules, by the look of it. USK@8R~w~FGpHxDE3jEuU10aipwi7qpsyiNcIC-4RAw9I3g,NO0394M4CqLKOYzRHjMkCgvC0c21ja7TpLzjzOKQsUI,AQACAAE/hybrid/0/
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[22:10] * nextgens didn't know about it :)
[22:10] <daltonlaffs> anyway, the download link is giving me some kind of error :\, damn it all
[22:10] <FreenetLogBot> The monitoring script has detected that http://mirror4.freenetproject.org/ is eligible to be back on the main mirror rotation list. Welcome Back!
[22:12] <nextgens> what kind of error?
[22:12] <daltonlaffs> Error: Not In Archive ?
[22:13] <nextgens> ah
[22:13] <nextgens> well, not much you can do for that one
[22:14] <daltonlaffs> what's that mean, the network killed it?
[22:14] <nextgens> no, it has been wrongly inserted into it
[22:15] <daltonlaffs> ah.
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[22:21] <FreenetLogBot> The monitoring script has detected that http://88.198.34.102/~mirror/ is eligible to be back on the main mirror rotation list. Welcome Back!
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[22:36] <FreenetLogBot> The monitoring script has detected that ftp://ftpmirror.sectoor.de/freenet/ is eligible to be back on the main mirror rotation list. Welcome Back!
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[23:19] -dmwaters- {global notice} Hi all, We look to be having some routing problems. I'm looking into it now. Thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode!
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Irc logs of #freenet : 2008 2007 2006 2005
These logs were automatically created by FreenetLogBot on chat.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.
