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[7:57] <sdiz> c/lear
[7:57] <sdiz> oops
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[12:17] <Algyz> Hi, anybody wants to be my friend? :|
[12:20] <Algyz> No peers found :(
[12:20] * dbkr points at the topic
[12:21] <Algyz> I see :)
[12:23] <Algyz> And how to share, search?
[12:23] <dbkr> whatnow?
[12:32] <toad_> Algyz: have a look at the Freenet Applications Freesite
[12:33] <toad_> Algyz: linked from the freenet node homepage
[12:33] <Algyz> Okay, I'll take a look ;)
[12:33] <toad_> Algyz: assuming you have some connections (on Strangers/Friends) and are able to connect
[12:33] <Algyz> already :)
[12:37] <FreenetLogBot> The monitoring script has detected a network glitch on http://mirror1.freenetproject.org/ : it has been disabled
[12:52] <FreenetLogBot> The monitoring script has detected that http://mirror1.freenetproject.org/ is eligible to be back on the main mirror rotation list. Welcome Back!
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[14:45] <jameswhite> what are the fields in the CHK? there appear to be a couple comma delimited, custom-alphabet-base64ed-sha256 strings in it, what is the second one?
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[14:49] <jameswhite> ah. [KeyType@]KeyValue[,DecryptionKey]
[14:50] <Ratchet> jameswhite: it's described here: http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetSSKPages
[14:51] <jameswhite> Ratchet: excellent. thank you.
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[15:40] <MisterE> Hi, I'm ready to install Freenet on my Mac (OS 10.5.4) but wonder where files will be installed or if uninstalling is easy?
[15:41] <MisterE> an applet installer is new to me
[15:47] <MisterE> / #mobile
[15:47] <MisterE> oops
[15:55] <reflect> MisterE, this is just a guess, but freenet is installed in a single directory and if you don't want it, just remove it.
[15:55] <MisterE> ok thats reassuring
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[15:55] <nextgens> reflect> it's an uneducated guess
[15:56] <nextgens> there is a reason why we have an uninstaller
[15:57] <infinity0> nextgens: hey, Cooo told me to tell you about a bug of sorts
[15:57] <reflect> well, there you go
[15:57] <infinity0> freenet runs under GIJ but doesn't install
[15:57] <infinity0> ie. i can run the online-install from a computer with sun JVM, then copy the files over to this computer with GIJ, and it'll run properly, but the online-install fails if i run it through GIJ
[15:58] <infinity0> it's to do with GIJ's JKS (non-)implementation
[15:58] <MisterE> how abut logs and cached data? All stored centrally and easy for house cleaning?
[16:02] <MisterE> Basically can you tell me where the Freenet files will end up after I install? I only want to access the Requiem web site but I travel internationally a lot and I'm sure Freenet raises a red flag
[16:03] <MisterE> I didn't do an exhaustive read of the docs but I checked FAQs and what not before coming here
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[16:04] <reflect> you cannot access the regular internet with freenet
[16:04] <reflect> if that's what you're after, you should look into using Tor or something similar
[16:04] <MisterE> right the requiem develper says he has a site on freenet
[16:05] <reflect> ah, ok
[16:05] <MisterE> thats that app that removes DRM from itunes purchases
[16:05] <reflect> the fact that you're running freenet isn't very easy to detect, I've heard
[16:06] <MisterE> I'm more concerned about customs doing a forensic inspection, it's happened a couple times to me
[16:06] <reflect> or read, rather
[16:07] <dbkr> MisterE: If you're not scared of a tarball, you can use the headless install, which will keep itself nicely within the directory you un-tar it to
[16:07] <MisterE> so I usually clean up my HDD and zero out the empty blocks before traveling home to the US
[16:08] <MisterE> dbkr: by not scared I assume you mean CLI fluent?
[16:08] <dbkr> but I wouldn't like to take guesses on what manner of beastly things the installer abomination might do to an OS X box
[16:08] <MisterE> :(
[16:08] <dbkr> yeah, that kind of thing
[16:08] <MisterE> I'm pretty much stuck with needing a gui
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[16:09] <dbkr> there is an uninstaller
[16:10] <MisterE> ok I will look for that
[16:10] <dbkr> but it's probably not been tested on OS X since sometime shortly after the dinosaurs died out, since none of the devs have macs
[16:10] <MisterE> what about logs and cached data, is that sort of stuff stored locally?
[16:10] <dbkr> that will all be stored within the freenet directory, unless really crazy stuff happens
[16:11] <MisterE> yea freenet on Mac seems pretty primeval
[16:11] <dbkr> I would think that the only thing not in the freenet directory would be the entry in StartupItems
[16:11] <MisterE> right OK
[16:11] <dbkr> but nextgens seems to be implying otherwise
[16:11] <MisterE> yes I got that from him/her too
[16:12] <MisterE> androgynous nick heh
[16:12] <reflect> dbkr, there's like a cronjob or some such and a few more things I guess..
[16:13] <dbkr> the cronjob is linux specific, right? plese tell me it is.
[16:13] <MisterE> I run Windows in virtualization so maybe I should install the Win version instead
[16:15] <reflect> dbkr, no, it's a @reboot, start up freenet again
[16:15] <dbkr> i know that, but isn't that hack just for linux boxes?
[16:16] <reflect> but I guess there's some other mechanism for OSes which doesn't have cron
[16:16] <MisterE> os x has cron
[16:16] <reflect> well, linux, BSDs.. (I guess)
[16:16] <reflect> but I hear my guesses are uneducated so you probably shouldn't listen to me.
[16:17] <MisterE> right now I;m listening to whoever is talking
[16:17] <reflect> I would assume OSes like windows would have some other startup mechanism, though
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[16:19] <MisterE> os x has a startup items folder just need to put a symlink or alias in there and it will startup at login
[16:19] <dbkr> reflect: actually, it looks like you're right
[16:20] <dbkr> looks like there's two cases, either 'windows', or 'unix'
[16:20] <dbkr> so it looks like it uses the cron hack, even on OS X
[16:20] <MisterE> cronjobs are usually for ziping up old log files and regular maintenance type stuff
[16:20] <MisterE> not to start a process or daemon at login
[16:21] <dbkr> yep, it's a hack
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[16:21] <MisterE> but I don't really understand how java apps work
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[16:24] <reflect> you need to ensure that freenet starts for the user who installed it, though.. not like a systemwide service
[16:25] <reflect> so perhaps this cron workaround isn't such a bad idea
[16:25] <dbkr> it can run as a system service if it's installed system-wide
[16:25] <dbkr> it does on windows, IIRC
[16:26] <reflect> yes, can.. not sure if that's the case for most installations, though
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[16:30] <Tommy[D]> dbkr: it does not, afaik it is installed as a service, but runs as user freenet
[16:30] <dbkr> that's pretty much what I meant
[16:30] <dbkr> the point being that it doesn't run as the user who installed it
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[17:07] <toad_> dbkr: there are two different ways to add a startup item on OS/X apart from a cronjob ... we had a script to do it but it never worked ... the cronjob script DOES work
[17:07] <dbkr> :/
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[17:17] <MisterE> toad_: can you tell me what the Feenet install looks like on Mac? Are there files all over the HDD or everything in 1 directory? Also what about logs, temp files and cached data?
[17:17] <toad_> MisterE: if you're not sure, nuke the whole disk
[17:17] <toad_> MisterE: generally that's a good strategy :)
[17:17] <reflect> lol
[17:17] <toad_> most stuff is in the install directory ... on windows we also use the registry, on unix we add a cronjob ...
[17:17] <MisterE> lol yea but a bit like hunting rabbits with a .306
[17:18] <toad_> well for example crontab won't do data overwriting when it deletes the old cronjob when you uninstall
[17:18] <toad_> neither does the uninstaller in fact
[17:18] <toad_> there will always be traces unless you dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda
[17:19] <toad_> you should reinstall the OS afterwards or they'll get suspicious of you though :)
[17:20] <MisterE> well I always overwrite free blocks after house cleaning I just want to make sure I'm not installing something that will spread files all over my HDD
[17:20] * toad_ has taken laptop into the US several times and never had to open it up
[17:20] <toad_> but you presumably have been more often
[17:20] <toad_> MisterE: we may use some sort of global temp dir
[17:21] <toad_> MisterE: the crontab thingy replaces one file with another; it's technically possible for blocks to remain on disk in some circumstances
[17:21] <MisterE> yea I usually fly back from Bangkok so I think that matches a profile or something. It doesn't always happen, sometimes they just say welcome back, sometimes I get checked out and a few times they took my computer into the back
[17:21] <toad_> also freenet can't delete the firefox profile because it's per-user
[17:22] <toad_> so yes there are traces unless you nuke everything
[17:22] <MisterE> so I should use firefox to install freenet? does it make a difference vs using safari?
[17:23] <toad_> for good performance, and slight improvements in security, install firefox, and use the Browse Freenet link (or browse.sh shell script)
[17:23] <toad_> it will create a firefox profile called freenet which has special settings for freenet
[17:23] <toad_> this also happens in the installer in fact
[17:23] <MisterE> I don't really care if they see I have freenet or if I've been using it but I want to clear out any logs, temp files or cached data
[17:24] <toad_> but there is one downside, which is that since it's per-user, the uninstaller can't remove it if you browsed freenet from other users
[17:24] <toad_> well, the uninstaller doesn't do overwriting at present afaik
[17:24] <reflect> the datastore and cache is encrypted, is it not?
[17:24] <toad_> file a bug for it to do so if you want
[17:24] <toad_> somewhat encrypted
[17:24] <MisterE> well I only have one user on this machine
[17:24] <MisterE> so that is not an issue for me
[17:26] <MisterE> OK, I have the freenet.jnlp file downloaded. Should I change my default browser to firefox until the install is finished? I guess I don't really understand the connection between web browser and freenet?
[17:27] <toad_> no, just as long as you have it installed
[17:28] <toad_> freenet will work best (performance mainly) with a custom firefox profile optimised for freenet
[17:28] <toad_> it will create one in the installer and when you run Browse Freenet
[17:28] <toad_> if there isn't already one
[17:28] <MisterE> OK, I see. will freenet activity show up in the browser history then?
[17:29] <toad_> only for that profile
[17:29] <toad_> and it's not cached
[17:29] <toad_> i don't know whether we turn off browser history
[17:29] <toad_> anyway you probably need to delete that profile after uninstalling
[17:29] <MisterE> I see a FF profile available for download, should I get that or just let the installed freenet do its thing?
[17:29] <toad_> ummm what FF profile?
[17:30] <toad_> oh you mean in the installer?
[17:30] <toad_> somebody actually reads those descriptions! :)
[17:30] <MisterE> Here: http://downloads.freenetproject.org/alpha/installer/
[17:30] <toad_> the installer will handle it
[17:30] <toad_> just get new_installer
[17:31] <toad_> either the jnlp (which will get the jar) or just the jar
[17:31] <MisterE> OIC OK
[17:32] * toad_ wonders if this conversation would show up to a customs official googling you?
[17:32] <MisterE> Last question, if I may, the datastore and cache files mentioned above will all be kept in the freenet install directory? Where is that dir by default?
[17:32] <reflect> your home directory, "Freenet" or "freenet"
[17:33] <toad_> isn't it in applications on OS/X ? it will ask you anyway!
[17:33] <MisterE> Nothing wrong with discussing privacy except it makes them think you're hiding somethign juicy and wastes more of your time I guess
[17:33] <mrdmx> asdf
[17:33] <MisterE> OK cool then
[17:34] <MisterE> I just want the latest version of Requim so I can unencrypt some itunes purchases
[17:34] <MisterE> when the dev got a cease & desist letter from Apple he took the site to freenet
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[17:35] <toad_> hehe
[17:35] <reflect> MisterE, my answer was from linux, it could differ in OSX..
[17:35] <toad_> was the C&D valid? is requiem in fact illegal under the DMCA?
[17:35] <MisterE> but I've been around the net long enuf to know there's stuff on freenet that can get you in a lot of trouble
[17:35] <reflect> iirc, it asked you where it should be installed during install?
[17:35] <toad_> yeah there's some real filth on freenet :<
[17:36] <reflect> MisterE, true, but you didn't download any of that by choice.. it just happened without your consent
[17:36] <MisterE> yea but I don't ever want to be in a position of having to argue my case on that
[17:37] <toad_> hehe
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[17:37] <MisterE> in this day and age where civil rights are gone in an instant in the name of security it's a bonanza for law enforcement agents who want to fuck with people that value their privacy and know their rights
[17:38] <MisterE> I'll get off my soapbox now :)
[17:38] <mrdmx> lol filth
[17:38] <toad_> hmmm you prefer "excrement" ?
[17:38] <mrdmx> haha
[17:38] <toad_> or the endless string of acronyms?
[17:39] <mrdmx> i watched tubgirl yesterday
[17:39] <mrdmx> thats some real filth
[17:39] <mrdmx> :)
[17:39] <toad_> porn? featuring adults?
[17:40] <mrdmx> oh you dont know?
[17:40] <MisterE> tubgirl is so 1990s
[17:40] <kork> lol
[17:40] <MisterE> and I thought it was only a pic
[17:40] <MisterE> not a movie
[17:40] <kork> tubgirl is like goatse, only worse :P
[17:40] <mrdmx> its a nice video
[17:40] <mrdmx> very profound
[17:40] <MisterE> oh goatse is what I am thinking oc
[17:40] <MisterE> goatse.cx
[17:41] <toad_> cz now
[17:41] <toad_> hmm i shouldn't have said that, ah well you'd have figured it out sooner or later
[17:41] <kork> arr
[17:41] * kork wonders why toad knows that
[17:41] <mrdmx> hahaha
[17:41] <mrdmx> he's a closet pervert
[17:41] <MisterE> naah I ain't going to be googling up goatse seen it once... you know
[17:42] <mrdmx> well, time to watch eelgirl
[17:42] <mrdmx> ;)
[17:42] * toad_ heard of its domain change at the freenet mini-conference actually :)
[17:42] <mrdmx> lol yeah, right......
[17:43] <MisterE> what was that? online or in person?
[17:43] <toad_> in person
[17:43] <toad_> on sunday
[17:43] <toad_> resulting decisions on devl
[17:43] <toad_> have a read, may be of interest
[17:43] <toad_> lots of good stuff
[17:46] <mrdmx> http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/c/ca/Eels.gif
[17:46] <mrdmx> awesome
[17:46] <kork> ~sigh~
[17:46] <toad_> ummm
[17:46] * toad_ won't be visiting that url
[17:46] <MisterE> If anyone is interested in the Requim controversy here's info: Apple has taken rather drastic measures to kill this program (see http://hymn-project.org). I'm taking rather drastic measures to keep it alive. I've started a Freenet page for it, at:
[17:46] <MisterE> freenet:USK@GSQgFDoeQUG0cSkbUVYYkB-ssqEEavRdo-RDVEAm0jk,rVvV3LjSZq3UNdGJrrup~~ZBPq4ohBhJeKkREXDLULw,AQACAAE/requiem/-1/
[17:46] <MisterE> Keep up-to-date with progress at this page. Apple sends a C&D, I upgrade the program to handle video...
[17:47] <MisterE> C&D cease & desist
[17:47] <toad_> hehe
[17:47] <toad_> well they know who he is don't they?
[17:47] <toad_> they just haven't seen it on freenet yet
[17:47] <toad_> they'll just send him another C&D
[17:47] <mrdmx> they do?
[17:47] <MisterE> and the super fucking ironic thing is Apple sells the music DRM free now
[17:48] <toad_> if it's the same person
[17:48] <toad_> well then they'll probably ignore him
[17:48] <mrdmx> did you check out the pic
[17:48] <mrdmx> ?
[17:48] <mrdmx> its just some eels
[17:48] <MisterE> it cost a bit more $1.30 per song instead of .99 and you get it 256kbps DRM free
[17:48] <toad_> DRM for music is still their intellectual property, their lawyers will defend it etc etc
[17:48] <toad_> MisterE: mp3?
[17:48] <toad_> some vaguely almost open format?
[17:49] <MisterE> yea they got lawyers on retainer that need to show they are doing something
[17:49] <MisterE> toad_: yup
[17:49] <kork> I've bought TONS of music recently
[17:49] <toad_> nobody's doing DRM free video yet though right?
[17:49] <kork> mp3, flac or wav :D
[17:49] <toad_> cool!
[17:49] <MisterE> not sure about video
[17:49] <kork> no "mainstream" music though...
[17:49] <MisterE> and on second thought I could be wrong about the format
[17:50] <toad_> i was under the impression that several major sellers were doing DRM-free mainstream music now
[17:50] <MisterE> probably AAC but no DRM at all
[17:50] <toad_> which is great imho
[17:50] <MisterE> yea about time the labels got smart
[17:50] <toad_> now we just need DRM free video purchases as well, and then we can go tell MS to fuck itself
[17:50] <MisterE> I have some stuff that I bought a long time abo I want to decrypt
[17:50] <toad_> err tell MS to go ...
[17:51] <MisterE> I've already done that for the most part
[17:51] <kork> dunno, I use beatport.com, trackitdown.net, junodownload.com, and another site I keep forgetting
[17:51] <MisterE> though I do have to run windows occasionally
[17:51] <Ratchet> toad_: you got it right the first time ;-)
[17:51] <MisterE> what for kork?
[17:51] <toad_> well, i don't buy music, and rarely buy new video ... mostly i get video from mythtv
[17:51] <kork> MisterE: for buying drm-free (electronic dance) music
[17:51] <toad_> last time i bought music it was creative commons licensed from NIN
[17:52] <toad_> and flac
[17:52] <MisterE> I watch all my TV and movies from bittorrent to be honest
[17:52] <toad_> hehe you evil pirate
[17:52] <toad_> (no, seriously, you short sighted idiot)
[17:52] <MisterE> I'h hapily pay a little to have a subscription to watch my shows whenever I want and not have to store it locally on unreliable optical discs
[17:52] <kork> oh, awesome, my node died on me again, oom
[17:52] <kork> /o\
[17:53] <kork> I really should start using the wrapper I guess
[17:53] <MisterE> short-sighted how?
[17:53] <toad_> MisterE: several companies offer that service, but it's usually tied to windows specific evil DRM
[17:53] <MisterE> I was with you on the evil pirate bit
[17:53] <toad_> hmmm
[17:53] <toad_> move this to chat, folks
[17:53] <toad_> i'm sorry i've propagated it
[17:54] <MisterE> we are OT for this channel?
[17:54] <toad_> yeah
[17:54] <toad_> /join #freenet-chat
[17:54] <MisterE> sorry I don't know the protocol yet
[17:54] <toad_> i sent you an invite, it should offer you
[17:57] <MisterE> so is anyone here using Thaw?
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[19:52] <infinity0> toad_: hey you there??
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[20:18] <spm_Draget> Could it be that freenet cannot load configuration files from network drives?
[20:24] <mrdmx> huh?
[20:24] <mrdmx> does it have file permissions¡?
[20:25] <spm_Draget> Hmm, I do not know what should stop it from having those. I just moved the datastore and extra peer data from the installationfolder to a networkdrive and adjusted the .ini file
[20:26] <spm_Draget> But then it failts to load, the wrapper logs: Failed to load node: Could not find or create extra peer data directory (22)
[20:26] <spm_Draget> (the log needs some upper limit!)
[20:27] <mrdmx> yeah but did you give freenet file permissions for the new location?
[20:29] <spm_Draget> Nope. Let me check...
[20:29] <spm_Draget> Ah, I need to add the dedicated user
[20:30] <spm_Draget> Uh, but how does that work for network drives? x.x Windows does not offer security setting for those
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[20:30] <mrdmx> oh, i didnt know
[20:31] <spm_Draget> Hmpf
[20:33] <mrdmx> network drives..
[20:34] <spm_Draget> I run my p2p services inside a virtual machine.
[20:34] <spm_Draget> I know a linux VM might habe been smarter
[20:34] <spm_Draget> But not all tools work with it.
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[21:49] <toad_> rehi
[21:50] <toad_> what's up?
[21:53] <Tommy[D]> seems not much, late in europe :)
[21:55] * toad_ wonders if he should take a break from the db4o code to implement FOAF-routing ...
[21:55] <toad_> it ought to produce something on the order of a 100% performance gain
[21:56] <toad_> but i'll have to finish the code review to get up to speed with trunk ... 863 commits to review ...
[21:56] <Tommy[D]> have fun :)
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Irc logs of #freenet : 2008 2007 2006 2005
These logs were automatically created by FreenetLogBot on chat.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.
