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[0:22] <skxpl> is it possoble to set up fproxy on a different port and create accounts like with normal proxy? I would like to set up freenet proxy on a public server but not exactly avalible to everyone on the Internet.
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[0:45] <NEOatNHNG> skxpl, it is possible to set fproxy to another port (on the config-page probably you have to switch to the advanced mode) but there's no built-in access-control
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[0:52] <skxpl> thanks NEOatNHNG
[1:04] <NEOatNHNG> skxpl, I don't know much about php ssl and things, but shouldn't it be possible to write some kind of layer on top of the FProxy, some php over SSL which parses the page it gets from FProxy?
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[1:10] <NEOatNHNG> so your php-script and SSL take care of the access-control and FProxy of the rest
[1:11] <NEOatNHNG> anyway got to get some sleep, good night everyone
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[2:30] <doink123> hey guys
[2:31] <doink123> does anyone know what happens to incomplete files from Thaw or frost?
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[4:49] <TheSeeker> I'm an admin on the Vista computer at work, and I got the "this program isn't signed by a trusted authority" popup, but no other popups. did not have to 'run as administrator' to get it to install or run correctly. (unlike, say, wireshark, which doesn't see interfaces unless you do so, even with UAC off)
[4:50] <TheSeeker> break's over. bye,
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[10:15] <grumbel> Is there any way to improve fproxys performance? Even for pages that I already had loaded just a minuted ago, it tages ages to reload them again
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[11:59] <avita> \msg nickserv register !qxkh97_17!
[11:59] <grumbel> avita: now you better chose a new password
[11:59] <avita> f.....!
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[12:25] <mYone> at least it WAS a good password ;D
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[12:37] <grumbel> Is there any way I can download a raw manifest file?
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[12:39] <nextgens> grumbel> hacking the code
[12:40] <nextgens> saces was working on a plugin to allow that iirc
[12:40] <grumbel> Is there any place where I can at least look at the spec of a manifest file?
[12:40] <nextgens> the source code
[12:41] <nextgens> the format is probably explained in the header
[12:41] <nextgens> grumbel> why, what do you want to do ?
[12:42] <grumbel> I simply want to understand how freenet stores its data
[12:44] <grumbel> i.e. CHK@ -> manifest -> [magic] isn't exactly satisfying
[12:44] <nextgens> chk => manifest => fec blocs of 32K
[12:45] <nextgens> there is no deep magic involved here :)
[12:45] <nextgens> http://freenet.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/freenet/src/freenet/keys/CHKBlock.java
[12:46] <grumbel> the magic starts when you have raw CHK@ vs CHK@ + filename, insert the same file as SSK and then again as CHK and stuff like that
[12:46] <nextgens> that's a block
[12:46] <nextgens> and http://freenet.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/freenet/src/freenet/client/Metadata.java here is a manifest
[12:47] <nextgens> grumbel> ssks are keyed
[12:47] <nextgens> it probably won't insert the same data as it's not
[12:51] <grumbel> What I basically want to find out is if each file on freenet is accessible from a CHK@, from what I understand, it isn't, since you would need a manifest that links the 32k fec blocks back together
[12:53] <nextgens> grumbel> we have a different terminology depending on whether we are speaking client-side or network-side
[12:53] <nextgens> CHKs are you mean it is client-side
[12:54] <nextgens> the node deals with other keytypes/data structures
[12:54] <nextgens> http://freenet.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/freenet/src/freenet/keys/
[12:55] <nextgens> grumbel> a chk contains a rounting key, a decryption key and some additional data (including a file-name and the compression/encryption algorithm used)
[12:56] <nextgens> the cryptographic key depends on the content and the metadatas
[12:56] <nextgens> but they can be easily guessed if you own the file
[12:56] <nextgens> hence the node has a feature to "generate the CHK key" corresponding to a file
[12:56] <nextgens> SSKs are completly different
[12:58] <nextgens> grumbel> does it make more sense to you now ?
[12:59] <grumbel> does an ssk actually change how things are stored in the network or only how you access it?
[12:59] <nextgens> good question
[12:59] <nextgens> as far as I know it does change how files are stored
[12:59] <nextgens> as the crypto key of each block will be different
[12:59] <nextgens> and that's a feature
[13:00] <nextgens> if you want to prevent mallory from censoring a file he owns but he doesn't know the corresponding key, you use SSKs
[13:00] <grumbel> So you would end up with duplicate data if the same file is inserted in different way?
[13:00] <nextgens> yes
[13:00] <nextgens> we have conventions though
[13:01] <nextgens> meaning that it's unlikely to happen
[13:02] * nextgens isn't even really sure of how it works
[13:02] <nextgens> the only one who knows about that part of the code is toad_
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[16:23] <sanity> toad: ping
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[17:20] <toad_> sanity: pong
[17:20] <toad_> sanity: sorry for the long ping time :)
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[18:03] <Zothar_Work> looks like the RTT is pretty bad... :)
[18:19] <toad_> :)
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[18:25] <sanity> toad_: hey, so is there now a service running on emu for introducing nodes?
[18:34] <toad_> not yet
[18:34] <toad_> there will be
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[19:32] <frog12345> is it possible to install opennet functionality without a reinstall if you deselected it during installation?
[19:34] <sich> go to the config page and enable opennet
[19:45] <toad_> frog12345: and then download the seednodes.fref file
[19:46] <frog12345> thx
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[21:31] <vod_> hey how do I find stuff on freenet?
[21:32] <vod_> for example lets say I want to find a dvd rip of zeitgeist (http://zeitgeistmovie.com)
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[22:32] <Berserkur> nextgens: Hi, are you here?
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[22:48] <toad_> vod: sorry, i thought you were requesting illegal content :)
[22:49] <toad_> there are various ways to search freenet: thaw indexes, frost, the XMLLibrarian plugin
[22:49] <toad_> it's unlikely that a specific un-copyrighted movie will be present though
[22:49] <toad_> if you're sure it's legal to do so you could upload it yourself
[22:51] <vod> you haven't seen zeigeist?
[22:51] <vod> wow
[22:51] <vod> Yes it's legal, the people who made it are scared for their lives though, so I thought it would be on freenet
[22:52] <toad_> so upload it :)
[22:52] <vod> but once I upload it
[22:52] <vod> how do I make it trivial to find?
[22:53] <toad_> either make a freesite for it
[22:53] <toad_> or post to the relevant frost board
[22:53] <vod> ah ok i'm new to frenet since today
[22:53] <vod> so i've never used frost
[22:53] <toad_> or make a thaw index, but may be better to get it into an existing thaw index
[22:53] <toad_> which u can probably do through frost but i dunno
[22:56] <vod> ok that's evil
[22:56] <vod> you start frost up and it says sending ip to NSA
[22:56] <vod> bastards
[22:56] <toad_> hehe
[22:56] <toad_> it's a joke
[22:57] <toad_> the german version translates NSA to their local bugbear agency
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[22:58] <toad_> rehi sanity
[22:58] <sanity> toad_: howdy
[22:58] <vod> wow frost is slooow
[22:59] <vod> and actually so is freenet since i started my node today
[22:59] <sanity> toad: so what is the deal with opennet?
[22:59] <toad_> hmmm?
[22:59] <sanity> toad: when you said it was done, i assumed that would include the server-side component
[23:00] <sanity> toad_: how were you planning on implementing that?
[23:00] <toad_> nextgens has provided a 256MB virtual machine on emu which I will run the seednodes collector in
[23:00] <sanity> why a VM?
[23:01] <toad_> paranoia i assume
[23:01] <toad_> we have several VMs on it
[23:01] <sanity> that seems like overkill
[23:01] <sanity> we do?
[23:01] <sanity> why?
[23:01] <toad_> yeah
[23:01] <toad_> ask nextgens :)
[23:01] <sanity> isn't that what user accounts are for?
[23:01] <toad_> :)
[23:01] <sanity> hmmm, /me smells some overengineering :-)
[23:02] <toad_> the plan is to run the collector on emu, and have nodes talk to it
[23:02] <toad_> i.e. once every 24 hours connect in via TCP and report their noderef, if they have seednode-mode enabled and if they are eligible to be seednodes i.e. have port forward, good uptime etc
[23:02] <sanity> maybe if we ran some more VMs inside the VMs we'd get twice as much security!
[23:03] <toad_> :)
[23:03] <toad_> well I agree with you to a degree: operating systems should properly isolate processes
[23:03] <toad_> but i'm not sure it's true in practice without a lot of work on mandatory access control etc
[23:03] <toad_> imho it's a good thing that our sysadmin is paranoid
[23:04] * toad_ is hearing various reports of connectivity problems :(
[23:04] <sanity> toad_: well, only if the paranoia results in an actual increase in security
[23:05] <sanity> toad_: running virtualized linux instances inside a linux instance is useful for some things, but i'm not sure that security is one of them
[23:05] <toad_> well, the NSA uses VMs to save money by not having to have an air gap
[23:05] <toad_> anyway, opennet
[23:05] <sanity> toad_: we aren't the NSA
[23:06] <toad_> sanity: so? :)
[23:06] <sanity> toad_: it just seems silly - unless the matchmaker thing is written by a moron, the likelihood that it will create a vulnerability is minimal
[23:06] <sanity> certainly no greater than that created by all the other stuff running on emu
[23:07] <sanity> but i guess if it makes nextgens happy... so long as it isn't slowing down emu too muchn
[23:07] * toad_ has been known to be a moron
[23:07] <sanity> it just seems pointless to pay extra for an actual box, rather than a VM, and then run our own VM on it!
[23:07] <toad_> :)
[23:07] <toad_> well some of them VMs in emu are quite big
[23:08] <toad_> and we can reallocate resources as we need them
[23:08] <sanity> it also complicates things, we will be screwed if Nextgens gets arrested by that nasty french government he is always griping about
[23:08] <toad_> but basically i let nextgens configure it however he likes in the name of security, since it means i don't have to
[23:08] <toad_> well i have root
[23:08] <toad_> we'll be able to recover if necessary
[23:08] <sanity> well, i understand that - but i just wish it was simpler
[23:08] <toad_> he's moving to korea soon anyway
[23:08] <sanity> oh?
[23:09] <toad_> to complete his education
[23:09] <sanity> hmmm
[23:09] <sanity> don't get me wrong, he does a great job, but i worry if anyone else ever has to take over from him
[23:11] <toad_> VMs aren't that hard, I've seen them used other places
[23:11] <toad_> but I would need to do some reading
[23:11] <toad_> and we have 4GB of RAM i.e. plenty
[23:18] <nextgens> hi
[23:19] <toad_> hi
[23:19] <toad_> sanity was just complaining about your excessive use of VMs :)
[23:19] <nextgens> sanity> privilege escalation is way easier than escaping from a vm :)
[23:20] <nextgens> btw it has several assets over using only a single host
[23:21] <nextgens> as we are keeping most of our backups on-site, the most they are protected, the better I sleep :)
[23:21] <toad_> well we shouldn't be keeping them just on site
[23:21] <nextgens> we aren't
[23:21] <nextgens> but up to date backups are kept on site
[23:23] <toad_> nextgens: any idea why we keep getting odd reports of no connectivity?
[23:24] <toad_> one guy on frost said no opennet, another said no darknet, now dbkr has everything disconnected
[23:25] <nextgens> are you sure you didn't break things implementing the anonymous-connection thingy ?
[23:25] * nextgens has no connectivity problems here
[23:25] <toad_> oh, i hope this isn't what it looks like...
[23:25] <nextgens> you've done some multi-homing related changes
[23:26] * nextgens isn't sure that they are sensible
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[23:26] <toad_> well it wasn't working before
[23:26] <toad_> anything multi-homed was completely broken
[23:26] <toad_> and i need multi-homing support in order to test stuff locally
[23:27] <nextgens> I'm not argueing it's not useful :)
[23:28] <toad_> well the alternative is a lot of messy refactoring
[23:29] <toad_> WTF?
[23:29] <toad_> if(physical == null) { try { Peer p = new Peer(fs.get("physical.udp"), true, true); ...
[23:29] <toad_> duh...
[23:29] <toad_> where String physical[] = fs.getAll("physical.udp"); on the previous line
[23:29] <toad_> duh!
[23:33] <toad_> i'd hoped to not have to do the messy refactoring for a while
[23:33] <toad_> anyway i may have found a solution
[23:33] <toad_> here's a problem:
[23:33] <toad_> if a node behind a NAT connects and announces before it knows its own IP address, it's not going to get very far
[23:34] <toad_> well it'll end up connecting to a few nodes that aren't NATed i suppose
[23:34] <toad_> the others will have its ARK so they will eventually connect
[23:34] <toad_> hmmm
[23:34] <toad_> maybe it's not a big deal
[23:34] <nextgens> that's assuming arks are still working
[23:34] <toad_> or maybe we should wait a short period on startup to find our IP address
[23:34] * nextgens suggests you ensure they do
[23:34] <toad_> nextgens: they won't work if it doesn't connect
[23:36] * Naked (i=naked@) has joined #freenet
[23:37] * Naked is now known as Hadaka
[23:51] * Hadaka (i=naked@) Quit (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[23:52] * Hadaka (i=naked@) has joined #freenet
Irc logs of #freenet : 2008 2007 2006 2005
These logs were automatically created by FreenetLogBot on chat.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.