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[6:54] <Anarhist> hi, what the hell is going on? for the past week i cannot connect to anyone
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[10:27] <nextgens> http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/12/02/2356202.shtml
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[10:47] <Cooo> morning nextgens
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[11:03] <Bombe> Good morning.
[11:06] <Cooo> Morning.
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[11:10] <Cooo> Bombe: Nextgens suggested the other day that I should contact you about a css problem.
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[12:35] <grawity> quote from my freenet-latest.log: "WTF? the HMAC verified but we don't know about that exponential! SHOULDN'T HAPPEN!"
[12:42] <nextgens> grawity> which build number are you using ? 1085 ?
[12:43] <grawity> 1085 r16206
[12:43] <nextgens> and are your peers using it too ?
[12:44] <grawity> most of them
[12:45] <grawity> I was trying to set up fproxy to listen on 0.0.0.0 (allowed hosts = 127.0.0.1,78.56.68.25 (my IP) full access = 127.0.0.1) so I could use fproxy from my mobile phone.
[12:46] <nextgens> well, tell us if you still see that message when everyone has upgraded
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[19:37] <toad_> opinions on changing the dropdown list for default disk space usage to a series of radio buttons (so you can see all the options on the page, not have to click on one), and not having a default?
[19:37] <toad_> does this make the setup process less user friendly?
[19:38] <nextgens> what would be the point ?
[19:40] <NEOatNHNG> toad_, I think so, because if we don't have a default users will have to think about what value would be right and if they haven't got any experience how should they?
[19:40] <nextgens> toad_> I think that the frost guy is just trying to get us to raise the default setting
[19:40] <NEOatNHNG> so they will just get frustrated
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[19:49] <toad_> nextgens: I don't think we can increase the default setting
[19:49] <toad_> NEOatNHNG: well, it's simply how much disk space can you afford
[19:50] <toad_> but yeah they might get pissed off at having to actually read what it says
[19:50] <toad_> and make a decision that isn't clicking "Next"
[19:51] <NEOatNHNG> toad_, if you just wanted to try freenet would you give it let's say 40G?
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[19:51] <toad_> NEOatNHNG: :)
[19:51] <NEOatNHNG> but you have to get an idea what is needed
[19:51] <toad_> what is needed is as much as possible, but it depends on how much you are willing to give the node
[19:51] <NEOatNHNG> so 10MB would be far too less
[19:52] <toad_> well i do think a minimum of 1G except for advanced users is sensible
[19:52] <nextgens> 1G is the hardcoded minimum value I think
[19:52] <toad_> nah iirc it's 256M
[19:52] <toad_> 32MB in fact
[19:53] <toad_> so it will run on a cellphone :)
[19:53] <NEOatNHNG> ;-)
[19:53] <toad_> if you can find one with enough transient RAM :)
[19:53] <NEOatNHNG> what is our current default? 1G?
[19:53] <toad_> I doubt the node would work with less than 32M datastore, but it should work with that or more
[19:53] <toad_> the default is 1G, and the wizard provides a dropdown which defaults to 1G
[19:54] <toad_> the first question is whether we should expand the dropdown to a bunch of radio buttons
[19:54] <toad_> imho that's probably a good idea
[19:55] <NEOatNHNG> why? radio buttons are the circles in wich you put one dot right?
[19:55] <dbkr> radio buttons for a numeric value?
[19:55] <toad_> yeah so you see the different possible options
[19:55] <toad_> dbkr: people actually type numbers? :)
[19:55] <dbkr> surely the different possible options are 32MB - infinity
[19:56] <toad_> sure, and later on you can go to the Configuration page and set any value you want
[19:56] <toad_> but most people don't want to set exactly 3.711 gigabytes
[19:56] <dbkr> sounds like what we're looking for is a slider, assuming we can decide on a sensible maximum (given that even then you can change it in the config)
[19:57] <toad_> so we let the user choose 1G, 2G, 3G, 5G, 10G, 20G, 30G, 50G or 100G
[19:57] <NEOatNHNG> what exactly is the problem with dropdown?
[19:57] <nextgens> is a slider possible in html ?
[19:57] <toad_> well how do you do a slider in html?
[19:57] <NEOatNHNG> you can see the values there also
[19:57] <NEOatNHNG> flash it ;-)
[19:57] <dbkr> oh, I thought this was the installation wizard
[19:58] <nextgens> it is
[19:58] <nextgens> when did you last setup a node ? :)
[19:58] <dbkr> heh - last summer :)
[19:59] <toad_> hmmm my bookmarks box is empty
[19:59] <toad_> i wonder if there is another bookmarks problem
[19:59] <dbkr> I thought it was a wizard that whatever installer package we use generates
[20:00] <nextgens> no, we have our own wizard in the node
[20:00] <nextgens> so that we can check the values more easily
[20:00] <nextgens> and maintain it easily
[20:01] <nextgens> toad_> what have you been doing with your bookmarks ?
[20:01] <toad_> i dunno
[20:01] <nextgens> I wouldn't say that the code is bugfree
[20:01] <toad_> i'll try a fresh node
[20:01] <nextgens> but it's less buggy than it was, that's for sure
[20:03] <dbkr> ah, I see. that's probably a good idea.
[20:03] <NEOatNHNG> uuhh just saw we're at release 1086, do you think we'll get to 2000 before xmas? just kidding, if you do nothing you can't do anything wrong as we say in germany
[20:03] <toad_> :)
[20:04] <toad_> place your bets ... devs must be excluded from betting as they can influence it ...
[20:04] <toad_> :)
[20:05] <toad_> nextgens: is the download of freenet-stable-latest etc in the installer secure now?
[20:05] <Ratchet> build 2008 would be nice for new year :-)
[20:05] <nextgens> secure ?
[20:05] <nextgens> secure as in ?
[20:05] <toad_> yeah it is isn't it ...
[20:05] <toad_> we download a checksum from an HTTPS site iirc
[20:05] <dbkr> so I'd forgotten just how much HTML forms suck
[20:05] <nextgens> no, we download it from a distinct http server
[20:06] <toad_> :|
[20:06] <toad_> okay, the first page of the wizard is badly designed
[20:06] <nextgens> toad_> bootstrap is critical in any case
[20:06] <toad_> most people will click on "I am not a newbie..." because they may not even see "Continue"
[20:06] <nextgens> even though we did that, how do we ensure the installer has been downloaded "securely" ?
[20:07] <toad_> nextgens: we could include the pubkey in the installer package
[20:07] <nextgens> there isn't much we can do to help blind people afaic
[20:07] <nextgens> toad_> if the installer is compromized it's game over anyway
[20:08] <nextgens> bbiab
[20:08] <NEOatNHNG> dbkr, we could do some ajax there, and get some logo on the website "now running with web2.0" and see how many views we get from that ;-)
[20:10] <toad_> the completion page should have a continue link too
[20:12] <NEOatNHNG> maybe we could do something like "click here to add a bookmark" to save the node's address in your browsers bookmarks, but does something apart from IE support such an option?
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[20:16] <toad_> NEOatNHNG: no idea, either file a bug, or find out
[20:18] <toad_> nextgens: do you think we'll need another mandatory in the near future?
[20:20] <Aldof66612> so what's new in '86?
[20:24] <nextgens> toad_> nope, what for ?
[20:25] <Tommy[D]> Aldof66612: bugfixes ;-)
[20:31] <Zothar_Work> we used to get those questions on a regular basis for a flog, though the IRC nick of the asker escapes me at the moment...
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[20:38] <esmhammer> trying to get freenet up and running but it can't find the wrapper, any idea anyone, I have output from run.sh start at pastebin http://pastebin.com/m1ca0c7e4
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[20:44] <NEOatNHNG> esmhammer, afaik we don't have a wrapper for freebsd, thats the reason
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[20:45] <NEOatNHNG> but if someone feels able to do one, just feel free to do it
[20:47] <esmhammer> NEOatNHNG: ok thanks, let me see if i can find a way around it. ;-)
[20:53] <NEOatNHNG> esmhammer, afaik the wrapper is just to catch exceptions etc. so you could just start freenet by hand
[20:59] <Zothar_Work> the wrapper may run on FreeBSD and we just don't have a compile for it; it's a defacto-standard wrapper in Java circles from what I gather: http://wrapper.tanukisoftware.org/
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[21:06] <Ratchet> esmhammer: you can just use run.sh wihtout the wrapper. you have to daemonize it yourself. i use it this way
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[21:09] <NEOatNHNG> esmhammer, if you can't find the wrapper for freebsd you can just run "java -cp freenet-ext.jar:freenet.jar freenet.node.NodeStarter" that's what the script does
[21:11] <esmhammer> Ratchet: i might have to do that, more reading though.;-)
[21:12] <Ratchet> on frost is a thread how to compile the wrapper for freebsd. if you want, ill privmessage it to you. but there are attached files you'll need
[21:12] <Ratchet> so perhaps it it would be best to start it up wihtout it and look on frost board "freenet" :-)
[21:12] <esmhammer> Ratchet: ya go ahead.
[21:13] <esmhammer> NEOatNHNG: when i have to run the java... , after i started the freenet.
[21:13] <Ratchet> your nick isn't registered, i can't query you
[21:13] <Ratchet> oh sorry, my fault
[21:14] <NEOatNHNG> esmhammer, just run it instead of the run.sh
[21:14] <esmhammer> Ratchet: let me do that i thought it is.
[21:14] <esmhammer> NEOatNHNG: ok thx.
[21:15] <esmhammer> Ratchet: nickserv says i a m registered.
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[21:16] <Ratchet> esmhammer: yes, sorry. I pasted from the wrong window :-)
[21:17] <esmhammer> Ratchet: i got it let all know how it is going. thx again all.;-)
[21:18] <NEOatNHNG> esmhammer, but be warned, if any exception happens, that isn't caught, the node will just crash and you'll get a message in the terminal, that the exception has been thrown.
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[21:19] <NEOatNHNG> if you run freenet with the wrapper the wrapper will catch the exceptions and log them
[21:19] <esmhammer> NEOatNHNG: no problem, i'll play with it see how it goes. thx again.
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[21:27] <esmhammer> NEOatNHNG: i get exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError; org/tanukisoftware/warpper/WrapperListener.....
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[21:33] <Ratchet> esmhammer: what java do you have on your freebsd?
[21:35] <esmhammer> Ratchet: diablo-jdk1.5.0
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[21:35] <Ratchet> same here...
[21:36] <esmhammer> Ratchet: let me difg into it.
[21:36] <esmhammer> difg/dig
[21:37] <Ratchet> have you tried to just start it with "sh ./run.sh start" ?
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[21:37] <Ratchet> i can't rmember if iy changed something in run.sh or wrapper.conf. long time ago :-)
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[21:40] <esmhammer> Ratchet: let me built the wrapper 1st, then we go from there.
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[21:42] <Ratchet> esmhammer: i'll have to leave. gotta get up early tomorrow. anyway, good luck :-)
[21:43] <esmhammer> Ratchet: thx again, later.;-)
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[21:44] <toad_> trunk testing would be appreciated, no immediate release but some interesting improvements
[21:44] <toad_> in relatively core code, so the possibility for major bugs
[21:44] <toad_> please test trunk!
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[23:47] <toad_> nextgens: just because the installer isn't compromised (e.g. signed/filesharing), doesn't mean the rest isn't. but maybe you're right that we should use UOM for paranoid installation.
[23:48] <Cooo> Updating to Trunk.
[23:48] <toad_> esmhammer: the wrapper isn't really to do with exceptions, it's more for auto-restarting etc
Irc logs of #freenet : 2008 2007 2006 2005
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