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[1:34] <bupp> what is the most stable version of .5 out there?
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[4:18] <telexicon> Is there like a web browsing system?
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[5:04] <Alystair> wow why is it impossible to uninstall this application
[5:05] <telexicon> it isnt
[5:05] <Alystair> the add/remove programs link says the files can't be found, and the jar application to uninstall doesn't actually delete anything
[5:05] <Alystair> also when attempting to shutdown the freenet app via the web interface it says it shut down yet the application was still running
[5:05] <Alystair> like spyware or something
[5:05] <telexicon> its not spyware
[5:05] <Alystair> I know it's not
[5:05] <telexicon> its open source.. maybe there is a bug somewhere
[5:06] <Alystair> hahaha wtf
[5:07] <Alystair> whoops nvm, ignore that laugh, was just a windows bug. bye
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[6:31] <invisible726> Anyone know of some good freenet indexes not given by default, or a way to find some?
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[8:45] <unitypunk> hola
[8:46] <unitypunk> anyone around.
[8:46] <unitypunk> causee
[8:46] <unitypunk> i just found freenet.
[8:46] <unitypunk> and i need a bit of help :)
[8:49] <unitypunk> :(
[9:10] <telexicon> ok
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[10:04] <Orakio> oh my god I just remembered my password after... [09:55:56] -NickServ- Last Seen: 1 year 22 weeks 2 days (23h 23m 11s) ago
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[10:29] <purefreak> heya.. i've installed freenet using wget and java -jar new_installer.jar metod, and the installer finished wihtou any problems... yet, for some reason, I can't connect to 127.0.0.1:8888
[10:29] <purefreak> anybody around that might be able to help me out ?
[10:29] <purefreak> *method
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[13:07] <purefreak> anybody around yet ?
[13:09] <purefreak> Running Freenet 0.7...
[13:09] <purefreak> wrapper | --> Wrapper Started as Console
[13:09] <purefreak> wrapper | Launching a JVM...
[13:09] <purefreak> jvm 1 | Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: freenet/node/NodeStarter
[13:09] <purefreak> wrapper | JVM exited while loading the application.
[13:09] <purefreak> wrapper | Reloading Wrapper configuration...
[13:09] <purefreak> wrapper | Launching a JVM...
[13:09] <purefreak> wrapper | JVM exited while loading the application.
[13:09] <purefreak> has this happened to anybody else? I can't start freenet for some reason. thats the only lead i've been able to gather.
[13:12] <purefreak> running on darwin (os x) btw.
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[13:14] <nextgens> purefreak> your freenet.jar file is corrupted
[13:14] <nextgens> run the updater (update.sh)
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[13:31] <saces> how can a plugin store an item in node config?
[13:33] <Bombe> I think it currently can't.
[13:34] <nextgens> it wouldn't be advisable anyway
[13:34] <nextgens> we need a separate config file
[13:42] <saces> its only a single parameter, that points to the real config dir, ideally on an usb stik or similar. unplug it and your box is clean.
[13:42] <saces> and you can easy float around with your "desktop"
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[14:21] * nextgens sets mode -b *!*n=r00t@*.dyn.optonline.net
[14:26] <nextgens> toad_> mikeusa came here yesterday... may you grant op rights on -chat to some additionnal people ?
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[14:56] <nextgens> toad_> may you respond to "[Tech] Fcp notes and issues" please ? shall we change the FCP spec ?
[14:59] <Zothar_Work> toad_: I've currently got a recurrance of the issue in https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=1866 if you're around and interested in debugging (pInstantReject spikes suddenly to 100% for a day or more)
[15:15] <saces> nextgens: how much memory cost it if the node have support for many langs (assume full support on 1.0) and a client chose an other lang on each request?
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[15:46] <dr_makis> hello everyone
[15:47] <dr_makis> i'm setting up fproxy for use in my local LAN, i've set bind address to 0.0.0.0 and allowed hostnames to 127.0.0.1,192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0
[15:47] <dr_makis> no luck though (running winxp)
[15:47] <dr_makis> any clues?
[15:53] <dbkr> do you have to restart freenet for the bind address to take effect?
[15:55] <dr_makis> i don't know, but i've anyway restarted it quite a few times since
[15:56] <dbkr> so, connection refused still? from everywhere but localhost?
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[15:58] <dr_makis> indeed
[15:59] <dr_makis> however, trying from the same host 192.168.1 works (not sure if it's any different, but it certainly proves it's not binded only at 127.0.0.1)
[16:01] <dbkr> hmm, probably not a freenet problem then
[16:01] <dr_makis> windows firewall?
[16:02] <dr_makis> if so it wouldn't work on localhost either
[16:02] <dr_makis> i'm starting to suspect my vm
[16:02] <dr_makis> it's not the latest breed
[16:02] <dbkr> don't think windows firewall rejects connections - pretty sure it just drops them
[16:02] <dbkr> well, it certainly does by default
[16:02] <dr_makis> i doesn't get rejected, it gets timed out (from other computers)
[16:03] <dbkr> oh - you said you got connection refused though?
[16:04] <dr_makis> i just said "no luck" ;)
[16:04] <dbkr> [15:49] <dbkr> so, connection refused still? from everywhere but localhost?
[16:04] <dbkr> [15:52] <dr_makis> indeed
[16:04] <dr_makis> ah sorry
[16:04] <dr_makis> anyway, you get what i mean
[16:05] <dbkr> sounds like a firewall issue then
[16:05] <dr_makis> i'm not exactly sure which is the executable that needs to be put in the exceptions list...?
[16:06] <dr_makis> the wrapper?
[16:06] <dr_makis> (or java.exe?)
[16:06] <dbkr> erm - probably. might be better off justr allowing the port through.
[16:06] <dbkr> probably the wrapper, that is
[16:08] <dr_makis> i'm only running the windows firewall - as far as i know, it only blocks/allows certain executables, nothing to do with ports
[16:08] <dbkr> you can add 'exceptions' for ports
[16:10] <dr_makis> oops, never noticed that.... :(
[16:12] <dr_makis> done, but it keeps getting dropped however
[16:13] <dr_makis> (i guess i'm getting a bit annoying, am i not? ;))
[16:13] <dbkr> dropped?
[16:13] <dr_makis> yes, times out
[16:13] <dbkr> that's odd - just randomly?
[16:13] <dr_makis> okay, i think i'll try the 1.6 vm and we'll see
[16:13] <dr_makis> no, it never connects from another host on my lan
[16:14] <dr_makis> it just times out
[16:14] <dbkr> oh, I see
[16:14] <dbkr> definately a firewall issue - changning the vm won't help
[16:17] <dr_makis> indeed... i entered the wrong port :(
[16:17] <dr_makis> it works fine now :D
[16:17] <dr_makis> thanks a lot
[16:17] <dbkr> whoo :)
[16:17] <dbkr> np
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[17:41] <indre1> Anyone know any nice boards on Frost, that aren't flooded?
[17:54] <nextgens> saces> it's directly proportionnal to the size of the translation file
[18:06] <saces> 136 (ISO 639-1) x ~100k (at the moment) = 13 MB
[18:06] <nextgens> 1/3 of my actual memory usage
[18:06] <nextgens> not acceptable imho
[18:07] <nextgens> arguably we don't have 136 supported languages yes
[18:07] <nextgens> yet
[18:07] <saces> the error number is clear and allready international.
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[18:39] <indre1> Hm, Frost doesn't seem to be working well for me... shows that there are new messages, but I can't see them
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[18:51] <saces> indre1: you have set a filter?
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[18:54] <indre1> don't think so
[18:55] <indre1> Ok, it seems to work now, but downloads like 1 message per 10 mins
[18:56] <indre1> And I can't change almost anything in preferences, is that normal?
[18:56] <indre1> The boxes are extremely small, for example the box how old messages to download
[18:59] <Nogaso> you have to resize the window...
[19:01] <indre1> The Preferences window? Doesn't help
[19:02] <Nogaso> even if you make it like twice the width? strange...
[19:02] <indre1> ow, thanks!
[19:02] <indre1> Didn't know i had to resize it that much
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[19:19] <nextgens> http://lists.debian.org/debian-java/2007/08/msg00028.html
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[19:37] <atomicplayboy> good evening
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[21:16] <nextgens> saces> your freenet cloack has been set :)
[21:17] <saces> cool. thanks.
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[23:14] <toad_> rehi
[23:16] * toad_ sets mode +v mYone
[23:16] <mYone> thanks ;)
[23:17] <toad_> hmmm chanserv seems to be offline
[23:17] <mYone> why?
[23:18] <toad_> <saces> nextgens: how much memory cost it if the node have support for many langs (assume full support on 1.0) and a client chose an other lang on each request? ------- not much
[23:21] <mYone> i love it how people in the refs channel always say things like: "opennet is easier to use but less secure". WTF?! if they trade refs with absolute strangers in irc i see absolutely no advantage in darknet mode... or am i wrong?
[23:22] <toad_> mYone: do you want a freenet/user cloak?
[23:22] <toad_> mYone: well there are some arguments for it being more secure e.g. you're only exposed occasionally
[23:23] <toad_> the main reasons for opennet are ease of use and better network topology
[23:23] <mYone> toad_: huh? ^^ what cloak?
[23:23] <mYone> toad_: well but there are also things against it, if you are only trading refs with strangers. If you are connecting to darknet-evil-doers you will always stay conected to them. in opennet there is some change, right?
[23:24] <toad_> so you show up as freenet/user/mYone rather than gateway/tor/x-12457
[23:24] <mYone> toad_: that sounds nice ;)
[23:24] <toad_> well yeah but on opennet evildoers can connect to you more easily
[23:24] * mYone is no irc geek ^^
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[23:24] <toad_> mYone: ask nextgens, or a staffer...
[23:25] <toad_> PhilKC: could you get mYone a freenet/user cloak pls? is there anything I have to do ?
[23:26] <toad_> mYone: you will have to identify ... are you registered?
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[23:26] <mYone> toad_: with nickserv or how it is called? yes i am
[23:27] <toad_> nextgens: where should Connectivity be linked off? both connections pages maybe?
[23:27] <mYone> toad_: 00:02 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)- Password accepted - you are now recognized
[23:28] <toad_> ok, you'll have to wait for nextgens to get around to it
[23:28] * dr_makis (n=opera@) has joined #freenet
[23:29] <mYone> np
[23:29] <dr_makis> i was wondering, does it really matter at all if your peers are all very near in the graph in statistics?
[23:32] * unitypunk (i=unitypun@) has joined #freenet
[23:32] <mYone> toad_: but continuing on that opennet/darknet issue, i still think opennet is more secure than darknet, if you are only trading with strangers... it wouldnt be a problem for example to set up a fake irc server, and so the darknet-only guy will only have 'bad' peers... the opennet guy on the other hand will automatically have many other (possibly good) connection if he only has one good peer he is connected to, right?
[23:33] <toad_> yeah, the great thing (for an attacker) about freenet-refs is everyone posts their ref to a pastebin and then publicly posts the url
[23:33] <toad_> bots operate in private otoh
[23:33] <toad_> but you can run multiple evil bots of course
[23:33] * Unitypunk|zZz (i=unitypun@) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[23:34] <toad_> but on opennet, you can do routing table takeover attacks
[23:34] <mYone> maybe i just dont like the statment darknet = secure, opennet = not so secure, because this is only true if you behave correctly, in most cases its misleading
[23:34] <toad_> so it's not much safer
[23:34] <toad_> darknet is very secure if you use it as true darknet. darknet using #freenet-refs and bots is not very secure.
[23:35] <mYone> i guess thats my point ;) but if i remember correctly thats made very clear on the website right?
[23:36] <mYone> if not, it should be ;) because i've got the feeling that many people posting in freenet-refs are not well educated about this fact
[23:36] <toad_> it should be
[23:38] <mYone> anyway, i like how you have done the opennet mode. Works great. I know that you are not a huge fan of opennet, so thanks for the great work
[23:39] <toad_> well, it's not done yet
[23:39] <toad_> we still need true automatic bootstrapping
[23:39] <mYone> do you really think that you'll want that?
[23:39] <mYone> wouldnt that be another security risk?
[23:39] <toad_> not really
[23:39] <mYone> [you are talking about seednodes, etc, right?]
[23:39] <toad_> no more so than the current mechanism
[23:41] * Shadow_Vixen (n=panther@) has joined #freenet
[23:41] <mYone> hm maybe i am being naive, but i somehow like it more to find my own 'seednodes' and go from there. it seems not so trivial as it could be for a provider just to manipulate the seednodes file, and boom, you are in evil-freenet-town
[23:41] * Shadow_Vixen (n=panther@) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:42] <toad_> mYone: if you can
[23:42] <toad_> mYone: how?
[23:42] <toad_> i mean how to find your own seednodes?
[23:43] <mYone> yeah thats why i called myself naive... ive got them from freenet-refs, which i know isnt anymore secure
[23:43] * sback (n=sback@) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
[23:43] <mYone> so i guess it really wont make a big difference and automatic bootstrapping will help newbies very much
[23:43] <toad_> yeah
[23:43] <toad_> that's my thinking
[23:43] <mYone> and less work for our hypothetical evil-guys ;)
[23:45] <atomicplayboy> I have heard that there has been man in the middle attacks in Tor networks, does this affect somehow the safety of freenet usage?
[23:46] <toad_> no
[23:46] <mYone> but i already like opennet very much. Its very convenient. especially how you made a clear cut between opennet and darknet (different ports etc). it seems all well thought through
[23:46] <mYone> so, thumbs up! ;)
[23:46] <toad_> there were weak key attacks on Tor, we had the same problem
[23:46] <toad_> they fixed it in 2005, we fixed it this year
[23:46] <toad_> :|
[23:46] <toad_> but we're safe against that specific attack now
[23:47] <toad_> of course there are a wide range of attacks that can be done against freenet including some MITMs e.g. on your initial connection to opennet or #freenet-refs
[23:47] <atomicplayboy> ok
[23:47] <toad_> there's a page about it on wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetZeroPointSevenSecurity
[23:48] <toad_> Packets for UdpSocketHandler packet receiver thread on port 24374 by port - Port forwarded
[23:48] <toad_> Packets for UdpSocketHandler packet receiver thread on port 37024 by port - Port forwarded
[23:49] <toad_> yay, it works ... kinda
[23:49] <toad_> question is, how long a
[23:50] <toad_> question is, how long does it take after startup for it to have enough data to figure that out?
[23:50] <toad_> the solution appears to be to look for send...receive gaps rather than time-since-startup, and to save the table to disk on shutdown so we can look for long gaps
[23:51] <toad_> so ... how exactly do we need to change AddressTrackerItem to do this?
[23:52] <toad_> we know when the last packet was sent, so when we receive one, we can calculate the gap length ... then what? a high scores table or something, the top N gaps with times?
[23:53] <toad_> but then what if our port forwarding status changes over time? we can't rely on completely out of date data ... if our IP address changes we definitely want to redetect; we also need to redetect in various other cases: if we have severe connectivity problems, if we've turned off aggressive handshaking and when we finally connect the other side says it tried to contact us and failed... hmmm
[23:55] <toad_> hmmm
[23:55] <toad_> presumably we record the last N gaps over a given threshold length ...
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