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[2:38] <briantumor> what's the lester ai foundation?
[2:38] <briantumor> and how do i send them money?
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[4:10] <TheSeeker> lol@briantumor
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[4:37] <slackforce> is this where i come for support?
[4:38] <TheSeeker> somewhat
[4:38] <slackforce> ok, i'll keep at it then. hopefully something goes right for once
[4:41] <TheSeeker> Best way is to ask questions, then check back every few hours for a response. IRC isn't really a resource hog, so leaving it open while you do other things won't kill you. just don't expect a quick reaply. (I personally only just happened to be near my computer when you showed up)
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[4:45] <slackforce> thanks for the advice. i'll do that then. i've read the new user guide, and i believe i understand at least the basic concept of freenet. i've added one friend manually, but the few bots i've tried replied by saying that there was a problem connecting to the node and to try again later. i did, and they both replied saying the node already has a peer with that identity.
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[4:56] <TheSeeker> are you giving the bots your friends identity by mistake?
[4:57] <TheSeeker> It's easy to accidentally copy the wrong bulix.org link (or whatever pastebin your'e using)
[4:59] <slackforce> heh, nope. it's definitely mine. just tried it again to make sure
[5:00] <TheSeeker> have you added the bots refs to yoru node? or did they never give you the link to their ref, but somehow have yours?
[5:00] <slackforce> they didn't give theirs. their first response was an error.
[5:01] <TheSeeker> maybe it was your friend that acidentally asked the bot to trade refs with them using yours? are they having trouble connecting tot he bots who have given your friend a ref link?
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[5:03] <TheSeeker> Are you conencted to anyone at all besides your friend? if so, you can probably enable opennet with the same level of security (or possibly greater) than using ref bots in teh channel for trading untrusted darknet refs.
[5:04] <slackforce> no, he didn't use mine. i'll look for this opennet feature though. thanks for the help :)
[5:04] <slackforce> oh, and i'm connected to only one person, although i have two friends.
[5:06] <slackforce> oh, if opennet is the promiscuous mode, it's already enabled
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[5:08] <slackforce> hmm...i read somewhere that i'll need 3 friends at least to be able to browse anything. am i imagining things? i'm unable to connect to any of the indexes as it stands
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[5:13] <colk> thats correct slackforce
[5:19] <slackforce> ok. thanks for the help guys. i'll continue my quest for references (in the other channel of course) tomorrow.
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[5:23] <vivendi> does anyone here want to share
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[9:52] <FuriousRage> great getting NPE on frost now ;>
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[11:57] <Jfcorse> hello
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[12:04] <Jfcorse> hello
[12:04] <Jfcorse> i search key
[12:04] <Jfcorse> ref
[12:04] <TuomasT> Is the idea of darknet, that my friend's, friend's, friend's .. friend should be the whole network?
[12:06] <Jfcorse> http://dark-code.bulix.org/611z1d-59611?raw
[12:08] <Jfcorse> your refs please
[12:09] <MKL__> TuomasT I guess it is
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[14:59] <Fennes> question, i want to set my output and input limit to 3mbit
[15:00] <Fennes> how should i do that?
[15:00] <Fennes> i've now set it to 8 mbit it think, 8096K
[15:00] <Fennes> or is that "K" incorrect?
[15:01] <Zothar_Work> Fennes: the K is KiloBytes; you'd want ( 1024 / 8 ) K, which I'm too lazy to do the math on
[15:02] <Zothar_Work> ah, 3 mbit, so take that answer and multiply by 3...
[15:07] <Fennes> 128
[15:07] <Fennes> 384
[15:07] <Fennes> 384K should it then be
[15:08] <Ratchet> 3072K
[15:08] <Fennes> well than is 8096K more but if i check my traffic it wont even come so high :(
[15:08] <Ratchet> and 8mbit is 8192
[15:08] <Ratchet> K
[15:08] <Fennes> ok
[15:09] <Fennes> maybe i'm downloading to much :D
[15:09] <Fennes> cause freenet is littlebit slow :D
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[15:23] <lamer777> Im new to freenet and just got it installed but I need peers, how do I go about it? Any help is appreciated thank you
[15:23] <Zothar_Work> Ratchet: 8mbit should be specified in Freenet as 1024K because Freenet's setting is in bytes rather than bits; 3mbit indeed be 384K
[15:24] <Zothar_Work> lamer777: try the #freenet-refs channel; I believe there should be a FreenetHelpBot there that will give you the URL of a first timers handbook that should explain a lot of it
[15:28] <lamer777> Thank you!
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[15:49] <Ratchet> Zothar_Work: ah, didn't know that
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[16:46] <Kartoffelsalat> i do not know any guy who uses freenet - who can give me a friend-id?
[16:47] <Nogaso> try #freenet-refs
[16:47] <Kartoffelsalat> thank you
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[17:12] <Kartoffelsalat> how many connections do i need to browse Frost?
[17:14] <Nogaso> strictly speaking 1, but you should try to have at least 5
[17:14] <Kartoffelsalat> and what is the url? my bookmark loads... and loads... and loads... and fails
[17:15] <Nogaso> url to?
[17:15] <Kartoffelsalat> Frost
[17:15] <Nogaso> it's a program, not a freesite :)
[17:15] <Nogaso> it should be in your freenet folder
[17:15] <Kartoffelsalat> thought it is a plugin?
[17:16] <Kartoffelsalat> ah :D
[17:16] <Kartoffelsalat> found it
[17:16] <Kartoffelsalat> but i see nothinghappen
[17:17] <Nogaso> it might take some time to start...
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[17:19] <Kartoffelsalat> i see nothing. if i start it again the info box with "allready running" came
[17:21] <Nogaso> try to close the running one and start it again
[17:24] <Nogaso> bbiab
[17:24] <Kartoffelsalat> have no idea how... i am atm on windows..
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[17:37] <rambocop> hi need a node ?
[17:38] <rambocop> is there someone here ?
[17:39] <Nogaso> I am at least
[17:39] <rambocop> how to connect to some node please ?
[17:39] <Nogaso> if you want refs, try #freenet-refs
[17:39] <rambocop> oki thx
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[17:48] <NEOatNHNG> nextgens, Bombe any other dev: I installed Vista on my VM and tried freenet there. Installer works fine (I had Java already installed so I'll tried without it later)
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[17:50] <NEOatNHNG> nextgens, Bombe :Problems so far: Connecting to my node on the host took me some changes in the config but I think that is due to the VM using a NAT to the local network
[17:53] <NEOatNHNG> nextgens, Bombe : starting/stopping the node by the linked batches gives me the following: Stopping Freenet; Systemfehler 5 aufgetreten (Systemerrror 5 occured); Zugriff verweigert (Permission denied);Press any key...
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[17:55] <NEOatNHNG> nextgens, Bombe : starting/stopping freenet via the service-manager is possible
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[17:57] <nextgens> NEOatNHNG> anything in your wrapper.log file ?
[17:58] <NEOatNHNG> nextgens, yes, you're getting it as soon as i figured out how to get it to my local machine ;-)
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[18:08] <NEOatNHNG> nextgens, what I said about starting/stopping freenet as service is just pertly correct i can start it without problems but stopping it will cause "The service "Freenet 0.7 darknet-8888" on "local computer" could not be stopped.; Error 1053:The service didn't reply to the start or controllrequest in time" but the status is stopped, I cant connect to fproxy, my local node shows it as disconnected and an entry is added to the wrapper.lo
[18:08] <NEOatNHNG> g, but the batch-problem is on start and stop
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[18:12] <nextgens> NEOatNHNG> pastebin your wrapper.log please
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[18:16] <NEOatNHNG> nextgens, there you go http://dark-code.bulix.org/999oab-59663
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[18:23] <nextgens> NEOatNHNG> you're supposed to report NPEs when you experience them ;)
[18:24] <NEOatNHNG> nextgens, what are NPEs???
[18:25] <FuriousRage> bugs
[18:27] <nextgens> NullPointerExceptions
[18:27] <nextgens> generally speaking, you shouldn't see any Exception in your log files
[18:28] <NEOatNHNG> nextgens, saw them and thought it was wrong but as the node more or less worked...
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[20:51] <kolo1> hello
[20:51] <NEOatNHNG> hi
[20:51] <kolo1> is any library to use free net from C?
[20:51] <kolo1> (client)
[20:51] <NEOatNHNG> as far as i know it was Google summer of code project
[20:52] <kolo1> is any IM in freenet?
[20:52] <kolo1> is difficult to write this?
[20:52] <kolo1> (i write jabber client)
[20:52] <saces> booth in c and c++ is aviable.
[20:52] <kolo1> url?
[20:53] <saces> in the source repo.
[20:53] <NEOatNHNG> IMHO IM over Freenet won't really work
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[20:55] <kolo1> hm.. I cant delete link
[20:56] <kolo1> in home bookmark
[20:56] <kolo1> the program not response ;(
[20:56] <NEOatNHNG> kolo1, have you thought about how many inserts you would need for IM
[20:56] <kolo1> http://127.0.0.1:8888/bookmarkEditor/?action=del&bookmark=/Indexes/Index%20des%20sites%20Fran%C4%82%C2%A7ais%20%28french%20freesites%20with%20descriptions%20but%20no%20categories%29
[20:57] <kolo1> hm.. yes IM will be not quickly
[20:57] <kolo1> but why not
[20:58] <NEOatNHNG> and you would cause serious traffic
[20:58] <Nogaso> won't it be more like email in terms of speed? (which already exists)
[20:58] <NEOatNHNG> because it wouldn't be _Instant_ messaging any more
[20:59] <kolo1> ;)
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[21:21] <Bombe> A small insert takes about 30 seconds.
[21:21] <Bombe> That's not really instant but almost sufficient.
[21:23] <NEOatNHNG> if we insert a file, it is stored on more, than just one node and this diskspace is limited
[21:25] <NEOatNHNG> so if we insert many files for IM, which doesn't need this redundancy we may have to delete other files for example freesites which could use it
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[21:26] <saces> limit your chatmesseg to 1K and use KSK for insert, it gous as 1K block into the network.
[21:26] <saces> gous=goes
[21:28] <Bombe> NEOatNHNG, use time-based slots for the messages, old slots won't be read after a certain interval, they're dropping out.
[21:29] <NEOatNHNG> is that already implemented
[21:29] <NEOatNHNG> ?
[21:29] <vivendi> is Freenet traceable?
[21:30] <vivendi> rather, how traceable are any particular user's actions?
[21:30] <Bombe> NEOatNHNG, what?
[21:31] <NEOatNHNG> files that are deleted after a certain tim
[21:31] <NEOatNHNG> e
[21:31] <Bombe> NEOatNHNG, not after a certain time but when a node wants to store some data and its store is full, it deletes the oldest data it has.
[21:33] <NEOatNHNG> vivendi, freenet was build to provide anonymity, so as long as you don't insert your personal data into it... and you aren't traced by your friends
[21:34] <NEOatNHNG> Bombe, so if I add a lot of IMs which are only important to two people and the oldest file is a freesite which is important for more than two people the freesite will be lost
[21:35] <Bombe> NEOatNHNG, if it's important for more than two people than it will be stored on several other nodes though it will be gone from your store, yes.
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[21:38] <saces> NEOatNHNG: each request on a datablock push it to top of the list, so you can say : "A fetch a day keeps the dataloss away"
[21:38] <NEOatNHNG> Bombe, I think freenet is not the right medium for one-to-one publishing (or at least high traffic 121 publishing), like the net is not the right medium for highspeed one-to-all publishing (such as TV)
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[21:40] <Bombe> NEOatNHNG, maybe not but 1:1 is something a lot of people (including me) want. :)
[21:42] <Ratchet> and freemail proves it's working :-)
[21:43] * |sich| (n=sich@) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[21:43] <NEOatNHNG> Bombe, for that we should implement a special network which uses the freenet topologie but doesn't do redundant file-saving
[21:44] <NEOatNHNG> Ratchet, I didn't say it wouldn't work, it does, but it won't IMHO not be good for the network
[21:45] <Bombe> NEOatNHNG, 1:1 streams are planned for some future version. Most people (again, including me) are not willing to wait for that. We'd rather implement some kludges which are not pretty but will work now.
[21:45] <Bombe> NEOatNHNG, in the mean time there are ULPRs planned (and already almost implemented).
[21:45] <Bombe> That will lighten the load considerably for these kinds of requests.
[21:48] * Bombe is off - thursday night fever! \o/
[21:48] <NEOatNHNG> Bombe, yeah heard about that and think it is a good idea, but for hacking the net just to make things work which have a better solution (apart from proof-of-concept) you won't get my admiration
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[23:05] <vivendi> can an ISP track that its customer is on Freenet?
[23:08] <NEOatNHNG> vivendi, I would say yes, for example it can tell that you downloaded the freenet installer
[23:10] <vivendi> beyond that, can it track how often its used or that its uploading/downloading via Frost?
[23:10] <NEOatNHNG> vivendi, and he can tell that you are receiving packets on port 6251
[23:12] <NEOatNHNG> vivendi, I think he could even tell that freenet is using that port, but he could not tell what you're downloading
[23:12] <vivendi> i'm trying to gauge how "safe" it is to fileshare on Freenet
[23:13] <NEOatNHNG> safer than with any app, but consider that freenet is not yet safe as it is version 0.7 and may contain bugs which seriously affect security
[23:14] <NEOatNHNG> so design is safe but app may not be
[23:14] <nextgens> NEOatNHNG> port numbers are random
[23:14] <nextgens> yours might be 6251, mine isn't
[23:14] <NEOatNHNG> oh
[23:14] <nextgens> btw, traffic should be patternless
[23:16] <vivendi> meaning?
[23:16] <NEOatNHNG> nextgens, so everything an ISP could identify is the download of the installer?
[23:17] <nextgens> vivendi> that we have done what we could to prevent ISPs from categorizing freenet traffic
[23:17] <NEOatNHNG> and participating in freenet channels on IRC
[23:17] <nextgens> an ISP could do flow analysis...
[23:17] <nextgens> but knowning for sure that he is facing a freenet node is impossible
[23:18] * rambocop (n=toto@) Quit ()
[23:19] <NEOatNHNG> nextgens, he could just see a lot of encrypted traffic and decide, that it may be interresting for some authorities right?
[23:19] <nextgens> yeah, that's always a risk
[23:19] <nextgens> we plan to have "transport plugins" at some point
[23:19] <nextgens> that would allow us to do some kind of steganography
[23:20] <nextgens> so that freenet's packets would look like skype traffic or something like that
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[23:23] <NEOatNHNG> so vivendi, if you want to make your node safe, full-encrypt your hdd (like any paranoid (I already have) should do it), get your freenet copy from a friend,
[23:24] <NEOatNHNG> exchange refs just analogue with your reality-friends and never mention the word freenet in any other place than freenet itself
[23:24] <vivendi> how do i fully encrypt hdd
[23:25] <NEOatNHNG> and don't join any IRC channels with freenet in their name (although its to late for that)^^
[23:25] <NEOatNHNG> which OS?
[23:25] <vivendi> ms w vista
[23:26] * nextgens won't comment
[23:26] <NEOatNHNG> I forgot: don't use Microsoft or any other proprietary software especially not vista
[23:27] <vivendi> hmm
[23:27] <NEOatNHNG> but if you want to do anyway
[23:28] <vivendi> and what advice would you give to someone involved with an educational institution
[23:29] <nextgens> who said to resign ? I heard it :p
[23:29] <NEOatNHNG> there are two ways: first way: use compusec http://www.ce-infosys.com/ (its free as in free beer but proprietary)
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[23:30] <NEOatNHNG> second way use truecrypt but that can't full-encrypt the hdd
[23:30] <NEOatNHNG> but it's free as in free speech
[23:35] <NEOatNHNG> ah I forgot, a third way there is more geekish to follow a way more on the light side of the force, get yourself a linux distribution (for newbies i recommend ubuntu) and guide I will you from there
[23:37] <vivendi> but does running an ms os completely ruin the concept of Freenet
[23:38] <NEOatNHNG> the point is, that noone except microsoft can answer that question, so you have to trust them
[23:42] <vivendi> does it hamper the security of Freenet from an ISP
[23:42] <NEOatNHNG> and after they officially admitted they worked together with the NSA http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/08/AR2007010801352.html at least I don't trust them any more
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[23:43] <NEOatNHNG> I don't think so but from the NSA and that's a bigger problem if you ask me
[23:46] <NEOatNHNG> The point is that if you encrypt your harddrive, even if the ISP knows/guesses you're running freenet, if they come to get your PC to have evidence, they can't find anything
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[23:49] <NEOatNHNG> and if you're living in a country that has a good judicative you'll get away with it (in brittain there is/will be a law which states that you have to give them your password in germany there isn't)
[23:54] * NEOatNHNG is asking himself if anybody is listening to what he just said or he might as well have talked to the wall
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Irc logs of #freenet : 2008 2007 2006 2005
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