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[0:14] <kell_54> New to freenet - looking for node ref trade
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[1:02] <toad_> hi
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[1:15] <Michael_Scott> hi guys - could someone please help me with starting out?
[1:16] <Michael_Scott> in particular with finding indexes
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[1:55] <TheSeeker> I wish CIA was still around... with freenet-dev no longer joinable, and google's svn copy being a day behind, it's impossible to tell if new updates are worth shutting down and grabbing a precompiled jar for, and which ones can wait for a day or two for a recompile...
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[2:15] <toad_> :|
[2:15] * toad_ dunno what happened to it, will find out
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[10:39] <cowardyne> hi all, how do i read the node location distribution image?
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[10:45] <phrosty> very carefully
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[11:07] * nextgens is gonna release 1066
[11:08] <nextgens> and then work on renew DH exponents off thread
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[11:15] <Xarkas> any body an idea how to run freenet on an arm-processor?
[11:15] <nextgens> freenet is written in java... if you have a jvm it should work
[11:16] <Xarkas> yeah, but it uses a wrapper that is compiled for i386 or x64
[11:16] <nextgens> ah
[11:16] <Nico_32> Xarkas: the wrapper is open source
[11:16] <Nico_32> and you can start freenet without it
[11:17] <nextgens> well, either you can recompile the wrapper... or start the node without it
[11:17] <Xarkas> what is the wrapper?
[11:17] <Nico_32> http://wrapper.tanukisoftware.org/
[11:18] <Nico_32> good building :)
[11:19] <Xarkas> ah, ok that means that if i find a wrapper compiled for arm, then i can use it... did freenet work without it or what are the problems?
[11:20] <Nico_32> freenet CAN work wihout
[11:20] <Nico_32> but if freenet crash, nothing will restart it
[11:20] <Xarkas> hmm..ok...so i need a simple script that checks if freenet is running...
[11:20] <Nico_32> and freenet crash very often on unusual arch
[11:21] <Nico_32> like x86_64
[11:21] * Nico_32 restart isodora
[11:21] <nextgens> I'd recommend to use the wrapper
[11:22] <nextgens> if you don't use it some features like the auto-updating one will be disabled
[11:22] <nextgens> 'auto-updater'
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[11:23] <Xarkas> yeah will try that. i need to use a arm-build because i want put freenet on some nas-devices(400mhz, 128 ram, 1 tb space), where i would give 100 or 200 gb for the network. the best is, that they have a static adress and a syncronious 16mbit connection
[11:24] <nextgens> 128M of ram is the bare minimum
[11:24] <Nico_32> ready to try to build gcc trunk ?
[11:25] <Xarkas> the most problem is, that i have to cross-compile it
[11:26] <Xarkas> the nas has 1024mb swap...did it solve the problem with the ram?
[11:26] <Nico_32> not really
[11:26] <Nico_32> swap is a lot slower than ram
[11:27] <Xarkas> this could be a problem...is there a way to limit the hunger for ressources?
[11:28] <nextgens> yes
[11:28] <nextgens> but freenet is a memory hog
[11:28] <nextgens> if you expect it to perform well, you have to give it some memory
[11:28] <nextgens> especially if you plan to have a huge datastore :|
[11:29] <Nico_32> Xarkas: can you add more RAM to the NAS ?
[11:29] <Xarkas> the whole device is not bigger that a book, there are not much things i can do, i have already upgrade the standart 32 mb to 128... i am lucky that i dont have destoyed it..
[11:30] <Xarkas> no
[11:30] <Xarkas> have two chips with 64 mb...
[11:30] <Nico_32> okay
[11:30] <Xarkas> does more space mean more need of ram?
[11:31] <Nico_32> the node need to know where it store data in the datastore
[11:31] <Nico_32> so big datastore == lot a memory used
[11:32] <Xarkas> maybe the 32 mb cache of the sata-harddisk will puffer a litte bit..
[11:33] <nextgens> yeah that will help
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[11:33] <nextgens> and I/Os are relatively cheap (as in optimized) on NASes anyway
[11:33] <nextgens> try it :)
[11:33] <nextgens> and don't forget to post your results on a freesite if the try is successful
[11:34] <nextgens> I bet that many people would be interrested in running freenet on a NAS
[11:34] <Xarkas> yes...i must correct the error with the javavm at first...
[11:34] <Xarkas> i have 7 nas at different places...i think that it will give some power to the freenet
[11:34] <Xarkas> if more people will use it
[11:35] <Nico_32> if you need darknet peer
[11:36] <Nico_32> i have two 24/7 node
[11:36] <Xarkas> yes i have some pears too, because i have running a node on my notebook...is it possible to test the performance of a node?
[11:38] <Xarkas> hey the arm-processor in my box is optimized to execute java
[11:39] <Xarkas> Processor : ARM926EJ-Sid(wb) rev 0 (v5l)
[11:39] <Xarkas> BogoMIPS : 332.59
[11:39] <Xarkas> Features : swp half thumb fastmult edsp java
[11:39] <Nico_32> if you have special jvm
[11:39] <Xarkas> hmm...
[11:42] <Xarkas> the official java from sun doesnt support arm...
[11:42] <Nico_32> yes
[11:42] <Nico_32> it don't support ppc either
[11:42] <Nico_32> it is why i said "ready to try to build gcc trunk"
[11:43] <Xarkas> i use JamVM version 1.4.5 here at the box but there are some problems...
[11:43] <nextgens> Nico_32> I don't see the relation
[11:43] <Xarkas> oh...
[11:43] <nextgens> Xarkas> well, try it
[11:43] <nextgens> is someone running a node with opennet enabled here ?
[11:43] <Xarkas> yes
[11:43] <Nico_32> me
[11:43] <Xarkas> i
[11:44] <nextgens> may they try the latest build ?
[11:44] <nextgens> the one which is currently beeing built
[11:44] <nextgens> r15452
[11:44] <Xarkas> hmm... how to do it?
[11:44] <Nico_32> run ./update.sh ?
[11:44] <nextgens> the error about too many connected peers should be gone
[11:44] <nextgens> tell me if it's not
[11:44] <nextgens> ./update.sh testing
[11:45] <Xarkas> ok, updating...btw. at my nas i get the following error i think it is because of the vm...
[11:45] <Xarkas> /share/__opt/freenet # ./bin/1run.sh
[11:45] <Xarkas> This script isn't meant to be used more than once. I will rename your freenet.ini to freenet.old.ini and go on, but don't complain if it breaks\!
[11:45] <Xarkas> Detecting tcp-ports availability...
[11:45] <Xarkas> Couldn't read manifest from bin/bindtest.jar (invalid jar file?).
[11:45] <Xarkas> Couldn't read manifest from bin/bindtest.jar (invalid jar file?).
[11:45] <Xarkas> Couldn't read manifest from bin/bindtest.jar (invalid jar file?).
[11:46] <Xarkas> Downloading freenet-stable-latest.jar
[11:46] <Xarkas> ln: freenet.jar: File exists
[11:46] <Xarkas> Downloading freenet-ext.jar
[11:46] <Nico_32> Xarkas: stop it
[11:46] <Nico_32> it is not the good script
[11:47] <Xarkas> Downloading update.sh
[11:47] <Xarkas> Do not run this script as root.
[11:47] <Xarkas> Starting up a browser
[11:47] <Xarkas> java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: BareBonesBrowserLaunch
[11:47] <Xarkas> <<No stacktrace available>>
[11:47] <Xarkas> Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: BareBonesBrowserLaunch not found in java.lang.ClassLoader$1{urls=[file:/share/__opt/freenet/bin/browser.jar], parent=null}
[11:47] <Xarkas> at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:529)
[11:47] <Xarkas> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:341)
[11:47] <Xarkas> at java.lang.ClassLoader$1.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:1112)
[11:47] <Xarkas> at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:293)
[11:47] <Xarkas> Finished
[11:47] <Xarkas> ok
[11:47] <Freefade> My autoupdate is on. Do I have to do something to go from r15352 to r15452 ?
[11:48] <Nico_32> nobody connected trought darknet
[11:48] <Nico_32> s/darknet/opennet/
[11:48] <nextgens> Freefade> well, it's not released yet
[11:49] * nextgens is asking for feedback before releasing it :)
[11:49] <Nico_32> networkSizeEstimateSession: 26 nodes
[11:49] <nextgens> Xarkas> you can ignore that error, it tries to spawn up a browser and doesn't succeed
[11:49] <nextgens> Xarkas> btw, you shouldn't re-run 1run.sh!
[11:49] <Freefade> ok thanks :)
[11:49] <Nico_32> Xarkas: your config.ini has been renamed to freenet.old.ini
[11:50] <Nico_32> do mv freenet.old.ini freenet.ini
[11:50] <Nico_32> before restarting your node
[11:50] <Xarkas> yes i know... i mean the error with the classes...
[11:51] <Xarkas> btw. the new release on my notebook works without problems...some nodes are connected...
[11:51] <Xarkas> i will look for another vm.
[11:52] <nextgens> Nico_32> what about yours ?
[11:52] <nextgens> how many opennet peers do you have ?
[11:52] <nextgens> is the useralert about too many peers displayed ?
[11:52] <Nico_32> no
[11:53] <Xarkas> 7, no
[11:53] <Nico_32> it show all opennet peer as disconnected
[11:54] <Xarkas> have 7 opennet peers as connected 2 as disconnected...
[11:55] <Tommy[D]> nextgens, i am running r15448 atm and did not see the error about too many disconnected peers (opennet active)
[11:55] <nextgens> Xarkas> and you're 100% sure that you're running r15452 ?
[11:55] <nextgens> weird
[11:55] <nextgens> I doubt that it has been fixed since it has been reported
[11:57] <Xarkas> where i can see it?
[11:57] <Xarkas> i have updated like you said it to me
[11:57] <Xarkas> Freenet 0.7 Build #1065 r15352
[11:58] <nextgens> ok
[11:58] <nextgens> Nico_32> find out why they are not connecting please
[11:58] <Tommy[D]> 15_3_52?
[11:58] <nextgens> have a look to log files and so on
[11:58] <nextgens> Tommy[D]> if you aren't running latest I don't mind :)
[11:59] <Tommy[D]> nextgens, i do now, but i have 20 connected/backed off ;)
[12:03] <Nico_32> nextgens: 3 opennet peer connected
[12:05] <nextgens> Nico_32> how many darknet peers do you have ?
[12:06] <Nico_32> now 4
[12:06] <Nico_32> now 6
[12:18] <Tommy[D]> nextgens, did you reduce the number of opennet peers? all peers together i now have 19
[12:29] <nextgens> what was it previously ?
[12:29] <nextgens> how many darknet peers do you have ?
[12:30] <nextgens> hmm
[12:31] <nextgens> in fact I wont release today
[12:31] <nextgens> I need to get something in before I do
[12:31] <nextgens> so that jfk is "finished"
[12:39] <Xarkas> here i do not have any problems with the new release (darknet 10connected,15 disconnected; opennet 5 connected)
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[12:42] <Tommy[D]> i have 11 darknet peers (connected+disconnected) and now 7 opennet peers, with 15448 i had 20 opennet peers
[12:46] <nextgens> yeah
[12:47] <nextgens> now it aims for 20 connected peers at all time
[12:47] <nextgens> but I'm not sure how accurate it is
[12:56] <TheSeeker> ouch. http://dark-code.bulix.org/vjysz7-58419?raw
[12:59] <TheSeeker> I think I ran out of HDD space... my freenet-latest and freenet-previous logs were both ~ 4.7G in size ... and I only have 10G free on the disk...
[12:59] <TheSeeker> putting my logging back to ERROR now :P
[13:00] <TheSeeker> (10G free after clearing the logs)
[13:01] <nextgens> hrrrmmm
[13:01] <nextgens> the WelcomeToadlet is broken here
[13:04] <TheSeeker> can google svn be updated more than once a day? like say: '1 hour after the last commit'? :P (reset timer after each commit)
[13:06] <nextgens> when I get around coding that maybe
[13:07] <TheSeeker> yey
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[13:28] <nextgens> TheSeeker> public svn has been updated
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[14:04] <Xarkas> have anybody of you a good board.xml? is there a search-engine for freenetsites and files?
[14:04] <toad_> there is a freesite search system
[14:05] <toad_> the XMLLibrarian plugin
[14:05] <toad_> there is also Thaw's searchable file indexes
[14:05] <Xarkas> ĥow to open/use it?
[14:10] <Xarkas> btw. it is possible to enable freenetaccess to public without give the users access to the configuration?
[14:17] <toad_> it is possible yes but you will need to figure out how
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[17:41] <TheSeeker> 15453 hasn't broken my opennet yet as far as I can tell. (comented out the two DiffieHellman.init calls in the simulator that prevente building)
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[18:46] <kell_54> looking to swap three nodes. TIA
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[19:21] <Eloisius> Hello
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[21:11] <cleet> whats the name of the freenet process?
[21:11] <FuriousRage> java.exe
[21:12] <cleet> thanks
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[21:28] <Freefade> Did someone successfuly inserted à 700MB file ?
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[21:34] <Bombe> I did.
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[21:46] <Freefade> Bombe : did you use Thaw ?
[21:47] <Bombe> Freefade, yes.
[21:47] <Freefade> When I try, the file is "downloaded to the node" and then computed. But computation takes 100% cpu and doesn't seem to go to 1% of progression...
[21:49] <Freefade> Is that normal ?
[21:51] <Bombe> Yes.
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[21:52] <Bombe> When you start inserting a file your node calculates "check blocks" that can be used to reconstruct the file even if not all of the original blocks are available anymore.
[21:52] <Bombe> And that calculation takes a lot of CPU power and time.
[21:58] <Freefade> At the first times, I used the node web interface to do the insertion. The % was going forth and back between 3 an 2% :(
[21:58] <Freefade> So now, I use Freemulet. Is that bad?
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[22:08] <toad_> Freefade: yes it's better to use thaw or the web interface (which both use the same code)
[22:08] <toad_> Freefade: just wait for it to finish using 100% cpu
[22:12] <Freefade> That's the problem: after hours, it doesn't complete (3 to 2%...). And that's only for one file. Because I use my node to play game and +15 nice isn't "idle priority" I lag if I play. And I can't stop playing for days... :)
[22:14] <Freefade> Is this INT computation that are used in the insertion process?
[22:17] <Freefade> And I have another question :) I start Thaw and inserted the files but it hanged, and Frost too! Since, Frost doesn't want to start (DB problem). So I used ./repair_db.sh. It runs now for a long time at 100% cpu. Is that a bug or do I have to wait? What if I erase Frost directory and download it again?
[22:18] <Tommy[D]> frost dir? It also contains your identity, keys, etc
[22:18] <Freefade> Can I save just my id keys?
[22:19] <Freefade> I only access to public forums
[22:20] * Drevor (i=Drevor73@) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[22:20] <toad_> Freefade: if it finishes using 100% cpu then it's finished encoding the file
[22:20] <toad_> Freefade: in the early stages, the % completion is not accurate
[22:20] <toad_> Freefade: no idea re frost problem
[22:21] <toad_> Freefade: once it's finished encoding the file it will take a while to actually insert it
[22:21] <Freefade> toad_: is there any "network" work while coputing at 100%cpu ?
[22:21] * Drevor (i=Drevor10@) has joined #freenet
[22:21] <Freefade> Are part of the files released?
[22:21] <Tommy[D]> Freefade, you can, but i only know a way with working frost, exporting the ids
[22:21] <toad_> Freefade: also you should be able to shut down the node in the middle of the encode, and it should continue from where it left off after restart
[22:21] <toad_> i don't remember
[22:22] <toad_> maybe
[22:22] <toad_> Freefade: are you on an amd64 system?
[22:22] <toad_> or EM64T ?
[22:22] <Freefade> toad_: I can do C programming. Is there a possibility to do an optimized program that parse and compute things in a big file and prepare it to be inserted by the node?
[22:22] <Freefade> toad_: yes amd64 fedora
[22:22] <toad_> we have native libraries for x86 but not for 64-bit atm
[22:23] <toad_> nextgens started to port the code but didn't finish it
[22:23] <Freefade> damn!
[22:23] <Freefade> So, that's the problem!
[22:23] <Tommy[D]> toad_, i dont know about any disk problems while i had my error with freenet, but i did not get it again until now
[22:24] <Tommy[D]> freenet does run on amd64 sun java, at least for me
[22:25] <Freefade> it runs for me too
[22:25] <toad_> yes it runs but FEC encoding is slow
[22:25] <toad_> because there's no native library for amd64, only for x86
[22:25] <Tommy[D]> What is FEC or does it?
[22:25] <toad_> the odd thing is nextgens said it was fixed :<
[22:26] <Tommy[D]> yes, i have an error in the log about not loadable FEC
[22:26] <Freefade> But AMD64 should run x86 code flawlessly
[22:26] <toad_> it's not that easy if you're running a 64-bit OS
[22:26] <toad_> calling a 32-bit library isn't trivial
[22:26] <Tommy[D]> Freefade, you could try installing a 32bit jvm and run freenet with it
[22:27] <toad_> anyway create a user and subscribe to the bug: https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=1795
[22:27] <Tommy[D]> Freefade, no, 64bit and 32bit code are not compactible
[22:27] <Freefade> well, I don't know but WoW is working with wine wich runs 32bit libs on my fedora 64
[22:27] <toad_> yes it's a 32-bit wine
[22:27] <Tommy[D]> yes, but for that, wine and all libs wine needs are installed in 32 bit
[22:27] <Freefade> yes
[22:27] <Freefade> it's the case
[22:27] <toad_> freenet is running on a 64-bit JVM
[22:27] <Tommy[D]> you can do that for freenet/java too
[22:28] <toad_> which can't easily call 32-bit C code
[22:28] <Freefade> yes 1.6 sun jvm 64bits
[22:28] <toad_> of course for stuff other than FEC, using a 64-bit JVM is a big benefit
[22:28] <nextgens> the code has been ported but there is a bug somewhere ...
[22:28] <Freefade> Well, gimme sources, I compile it with my 64 bits gcc ;)
[22:28] <nextgens> and that's not acceptable
[22:28] <nextgens> hence it's not deployed
[22:28] * nextgens has no interrest in working on it anymore
[22:29] <Freefade> do you mean code for file insertion?
[22:29] <nextgens> as I don't own any amd64 and don't run my node anymore on such hardware :)
[22:29] <toad_> Freefade: you can do it if you want ... but it's likely to be a pig, searching for a bug in many lines of 32-bit-specific math code ported to 64-bit
[22:29] <toad_> nextgens: i have 64-bit ...
[22:29] <toad_> nextgens: what are you running on btw? 32-bit is archaic... :)
[22:30] <nextgens> well, it does its job well enough for me
[22:30] <toad_> okay, well next question: if he starts an encode, then shuts down the node after some time, will the node continue the encode from where it left off?
[22:30] <toad_> i think it will
[22:30] <Freefade> freenet is the future. It should run on 64 bits hardware. At least.
[22:30] <nextgens> and as I'm a poor student I don't have any money to put into getting new hardware
[22:30] <nextgens> toad_> I don't think so
[22:30] <toad_> nextgens: you should get on payroll :)
[22:30] <nextgens> we don't persist that
[22:31] <toad_> nextgens: no? i thought we had an encoded flag for each segment?
[22:31] <nextgens> toad_> and get myself into trouble because of that ;)
[22:31] <Freefade> toad_: 32 bit optimized code will be faster if redesigned with 64 bits rather that just ported ?
[22:31] <nextgens> I'm not 100% sure
[22:31] <toad_> nextgens: well yeah you'd probably have to move to another country say ireland ...
[22:31] <toad_> :|
[22:32] <nextgens> Freefade> yeah that what should have been done
[22:32] <nextgens> but it hasn't been done
[22:32] <toad_> http://onionnetworks.com/developers/
[22:32] <toad_> Java FEC Library v1.0.3
[22:32] <nextgens> btw, if you do have a powerful 64 bits cpu you have cycles to spare :p
[22:32] <nextgens> case solved :p
[22:32] <toad_> we need the native FEC accelerator code to be ported from 32-bit to 64-bit
[22:33] <toad_> nextgens: apparently it still takes ages to encode, and he thinks it's not working at all because it goes from 3% to 2% ...
[22:33] <toad_> Freefade: I suggest you start the insert, then when you want to play games shut down the node, then start it back up
[22:33] <toad_> Freefade: it will continue the encode ... hopefully it will resume from where it was
[22:33] <Freefade> ok but what do you mean by ported? Translate it to 64bits or redesign it to 64bits (should overperform 32bit)
[22:34] <toad_> most code's design isn't dependant on the word length of the host system :)
[22:34] <toad_> iirc it's in C
[22:35] <toad_> note: Some uses of FEC technology are patent encumbered, please seek appropriate legal council before incorporating FEC into your product.
[22:35] <toad_> yay!
[22:35] <Freefade> BSD-style license
[22:35] * toad_ proposes to ignore what are obviously business method patents :)
[22:35] <toad_> Freefade: is that a problem?
[22:35] <Freefade> I don't know
[22:35] <Freefade> You tell :)
[22:35] <toad_> not for us
[22:35] <Freefade> ok
[22:36] <toad_> is it a problem for you? BSD is pretty close to public domain
[22:36] <nextgens> bbiab
[22:36] <toad_> cya nextgens
[22:38] <Freefade> nope, the problem is that I haven't code java since 2003 and I don't remember anything :)
[22:39] <Freefade> ok I found the C src dir
[22:42] <tullyvey> out of interest, why isn't the whole of freenet in javaq. just a speed issue?
[22:42] <tullyvey> *java
[22:43] <toad_> tullyvey: purely speed
[22:44] <toad_> for a few low-level math things, C/asm is *much* faster
[22:44] <toad_> but even then, freenet will run without it, it'll just be slower
[22:44] <toad_> which is Freefade's problem :|
[22:44] <Freefade> héhé
[22:45] <tullyvey> thanks, toad_ - that had intrigued me
[22:45] <Freefade> well, I have fast freenet because my cpu is never full. Except for insertion.
[22:46] <Freefade> hey ! frost's repair_db.sh ended :)
[22:46] <Tommy[D]> and moving to C is no option, because its to much java code and you prefer java, toad_ ?
[22:46] <Freefade> C++ is better for maintenance
[22:47] <Freefade> but Frost won't start :/
[22:48] <Tommy[D]> wont start is no good error description ;)
[22:49] <Freefade> Well he says "cleaning filelist table" and then 100% CPU.
[22:50] <toad_> Tommy[D]: moving to C isn't an option, because it's all in java already, and because java has a number of definite benefits over C which have been endlessly rehearsed
[22:50] <toad_> Freefade: 100% CPU is not necessarily a problem
[22:50] <toad_> it's run at low priority
[22:51] <toad_> but it sucks if you're trying to game, sure
[22:51] <Tommy[D]> toad_, and if you compare java to c++ ?
[22:52] <Freefade> toad_: usualy, Frost start in seconds
[22:52] <Freefade> so there is a problem
[22:52] <Freefade> :)
[22:52] <toad_> Tommy[D]: :)
[22:52] <toad_> Tommy[D]: well, for example, if we wrote it in C++, we'd spend years arguing over whether to include a garbage collector, and the ones available to us would suck
[22:53] <Freefade> If you rewrite
[22:53] <toad_> and/or tens of manyears debugging things that would be irrelevant with a GC
[22:54] <Freefade> toad_: in the freenet distribution, where are the optimized libs?
[22:55] <toad_> in the contrib module
[22:55] <Tommy[D]> and the gc with java is good or at least better?
[22:55] <toad_> they are derived from those shipped with the onion FEC library i mentioned above
[22:55] <toad_> Tommy[D]: you can't use a modern (copying) GC with C++
[22:55] <Freefade> cat wrapper-linux-x86-64 is BAD
[22:55] <Freefade> :)
[22:55] <toad_> Tommy[D]: unless you limit it to a subset of C++ (which is a good idea in any case see strcpy() ;) )
[22:56] <Freefade> Do you mean there is a src distrib of freenet ? :)
[22:57] <toad_> ummm read the web page
[22:57] <Freefade> mm ok, I was repealed by the WINDOWS word but it's ok, I'll scroll down
[22:59] <toad_> unfortunately 80% of our users still use legacy OSs :<
[22:59] <toad_> s/legacy/legacy (98/2K/XP) or megalomaniac (Vista)/ :)
[22:59] <toad_> very few devs run windows though
[23:00] <Tommy[D]> i cant tell the last date i started XP, perhaps the next time i do it, i should spend some time for the updates :)
[23:01] <toad_> why do you still have it then? if you don't need it for games/OtherEssentialApps, why not just delete it?
[23:01] <Freefade> Since I figured out how to run WoW on linux, I erased Windows.
[23:02] <Tommy[D]> i still have some games that i cannot play with Linux, also i dont play them very often
[23:02] <toad_> Freefade: :)
[23:02] <toad_> cedega?
[23:02] <Freefade> I don't believe you Tommy[D]
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[23:02] <toad_> Freefade: Tommy[D]: if you know C++, you won't have any problem learning java
[23:02] <Freefade> Go check there: http://appdb.winehq.org/
[23:02] <Tommy[D]> Civilisation does not run with wine until now ;)
[23:03] <toad_> Freefade: WoW runs on mainstream wine? cool!
[23:03] <Freefade> freeciv rocks :)
[23:03] <toad_> Tommy[D]: which one?
[23:03] <Tommy[D]> 2
[23:03] <Tommy[D]> dont like 3 and more less 4
[23:03] <Freefade> 2 ?? go freeciv :)
[23:04] <Freefade> http://freeciv.wikia.com/index.php/Freeciv
[23:04] <Tommy[D]> freeciv? Is it Civ1 or more like Civ2? With hitpoints or instant kill?
[23:05] <Freefade> Freeciv has many mods
[23:05] <Freefade> It's great
[23:05] <Freefade> Check my link
[23:06] <Freefade> toad_: absolutly
[23:06] <Freefade> WoW is "gold" on wine
[23:06] <Tommy[D]> ok, whats about Command & Conquer and Serious Sam? :)
[23:06] <Freefade> check the appdb ;)
[23:06] <Freefade> I can play wow even when my partners have blue screen of the death
[23:07] <Freefade> The only problem is that opengl doesn't have hardware cursor
[23:07] <Freefade> but the directx support as some minor bugs but hardware cursor.
[23:07] <Freefade> But my computer is fast enough to play opengl
[23:12] <toad_> EVE works more or less on crossover but has some issues
[23:13] <toad_> i'd be surprised if the old C&C's don't work ... generals no idea
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[23:19] * azejez (n=qsdfghjk@) Quit (Client Quit)
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[23:21] <Freefade> hey frost works !
[23:24] <Tommy[D]> 1 problem with linux is still sound, VoIP, Recording and Mixing Audio does not really work good with Linux atm, i do have way better results with Windows
[23:24] <toad_> what's wrong with VoIP?
[23:27] <Tommy[D]> microphone/recording voice does not really work, much other noise
[23:29] <toad_> hmmm odd
[23:29] <toad_> i've used skype without any major problems
[23:29] * mymace (i=mymace@) has joined #freenet
[23:29] <toad_> i doubt very much that there is a serious problem with the basic capture functionality
[23:30] <toad_> of course if you want surround sound, or mixing multiple streams, or low latency, you can have problems
[23:31] <Tommy[D]> yes, needed some time to get at least 2.1 sound,
[23:31] * tullyvey_ (n=tullyvey@) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
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[23:32] <Freefade> Tommy[D]: I do rated arena and I use TeamSpeak and WoW simultaneously
[23:32] <Freefade> and I used Skype too
[23:32] <toad_> Freefade: hmmm how do you manage that?
[23:32] <toad_> I can't run TS and EVE with audio output at the same time
[23:32] <toad_> and i'm using a fairly high end card too
[23:33] <toad_> well fairly high end = not integrated to the motherboard :)
[23:33] <toad_> soundblaster live LS or something
[23:34] * pichu0102_ (n=pichu010@) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[23:35] <toad_> good night folk cya monday
[23:35] * toad_ (n=toad@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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[23:36] <Tommy[D]> Freefade, which sound device do you have?
[23:36] <Freefade> Tommy[D]: I have two cards
[23:37] <Freefade> My first one is a Turtle beach with hardware mixing
[23:37] <Freefade> the second one is integrated to the motherboard
[23:37] <Freefade> I use it for TeamSpeak
[23:39] * mymace (i=mymace@) has left #freenet
[23:48] <Tommy[D]> and i have only one in the motherboard without hardware mixing.... ;)
[23:55] * azejez (n=qsdfghjk@) Quit ()
[23:55] <Tommy[D]> Freefade, so until at least the sound problems are not resolved, i wont wipe windows
[23:57] <Freefade> Tommy[D]: you can do software mixing with linux. Try jack?
[23:57] <Freefade> But it's a bit more difficult to set up :)
[23:58] <Tommy[D]> Freefade, perhaps, but that does not help, if the sound recording does not give me anything usefull for mixing ;)
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