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[0:29] <skyfixet_> http://pastebin.ca/raw/266270
[0:32] <Zothar> skyfixet_: please note that ref trade should be done in #freenet-refs; thanks
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[4:45] <BosHaus> freenet is saying it cant find my external IP, even if I give it a "hint"
[4:46] <BosHaus> although it shows my external IP fine in my node ref..
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[6:06] <Xosy> anyone know where i can get a frost knownboards.xml?
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[6:14] <Xosy> what happens if you add a board name that you know, but don't know the key for it?
[6:15] <jman88> can't see the messages as far as i know
[6:15] <BosHaus> yeah, you'd need to know the key
[6:15] <jman88> unless someone sent a message without a key
[6:15] <BosHaus> frost should build its own knownboards.xml over time
[6:16] <BosHaus> I just got on .7 though, so mines about empty
[6:16] <jman88> just let it run
[6:16] <jman88> i had some in a few hours from the boards group
[6:16] <Xosy> any links to a frost boards .xml file?
[6:16] <Xosy> on 0.5 you can get a download of the frost boards
[6:17] <Xosy> was hoping you can do that in 0.7 too
[6:17] <BosHaus> yeah, I usually set frost to download the last 30d of message for the first couple days
[6:17] <BosHaus> then put it down to 5d
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[7:11] <_ph00> I'm still running the frost version that came with freenet when I installed it, a couple of months ago, maybe three.
[7:11] <_ph00> ...should i switch to a newer?
[7:12] <_ph00> where? downloads.freenetproject.org?
[7:12] <_ph00> do I aks questions and answer myself?
[7:13] <_ph00> why not?
[7:13] <_ph00> (checking downloads.freenetproject.org)
[7:25] <_ph00> .
[7:25] <_ph00> er...
[7:25] <_ph00> I was having a rendom look in my freenet directory
[7:26] <_ph00> in .../freenet/frost/localdata/unsent i see a bunch of files called unsent<13 digit number>.xml
[7:28] <_ph00> those file have messages I sent to Frost board, readable, signed and uencrypted, which could discloase my Frost username to anyone who's capable of getting a sneak look into my HDD
[7:29] <_ph00> s/could/surely will
[7:30] <_ph00> anyone who's hacker enough to gain *read* access to my drive can tell what my Frost username is! is that supposed to be that way?
[7:41] <_ph00> ...I guess it is, after all (you're not supposed to let people have "sneak looks" into yout HDD to begin with....)
[7:43] <_ph00> (and of course, I see a lot more of messages I sent in the /sent dir.... I think I should have frost nstalled on an encrypted pen drive. (can that be done? I guess it is but I can't try because I don't own a pen drive)
[7:43] <_ph00> gonna get one today
[7:43] <_ph00> maybe two, once I'm there
[7:44] <_ph00> one frost-dedicated and one becouse it's good to have, I must be the last computr user on the planet who don't have a pen drive
[7:44] <_ph00> a
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[11:24] <b4t> =)
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[13:34] <nextgens> hi
[13:35] <toad_> hi nextgens
[13:35] <toad_> WARNING: filesystem /mnt/secure is 100% full
[13:36] <toad_> also did you ever fix the windows uninstaller?
[13:37] <nextgens> I've fixed one bug ... but it seems that it wasn't the only one
[13:38] <nextgens> I need to change the backup policy ... we have more and more data to backup
[13:38] <nextgens> atm I'm busy trying to recover some data
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[13:38] * nextgens uses a cyphered LVM VG .. and it doesn't load :'(
[13:41] <nextgens> btw, the windows uninstaller bug won't disapear anytime soon
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[13:42] <nextgens> as all the installed versions are still br0ken
[13:43] <toad_> nextgens: LVM => backups
[13:43] <toad_> nextgens: so you fixed the uninstaller, but then you discovered another bug, so it's still broken?
[13:43] <toad_> nextgens: is my JPEG filter excessive? :)
[13:44] <toad_> nextgens: you needed some help with #889?
[13:45] <nextgens> toad_> I'm using software raid1 with lvm2
[13:45] <nextgens> but that's not enough :/
[13:45] <nextgens> toad_> yes for the uninstaller
[13:45] <toad_> nextgens: yeah, LVM => backups
[13:45] <toad_> the reason is if you lose a disk then recovery is nontrivial
[13:46] <toad_> although i believe there is a tool for it now
[13:46] <nextgens> toad_> and yes, I'd like to have your views on #889
[13:46] <nextgens> things got htmlEncoded ...
[13:46] <nextgens> I guess the browser URLEncode them afterwards ...
[13:46] <nextgens> but we don't
[13:46] <toad_> nextgens: in the trace you show, i don't see an ID
[13:47] <toad_> i see a filename
[13:47] <toad_> which has been url'encoded
[13:47] <nextgens> anyway: reproducing it trivial
[13:47] <nextgens> submit an insert using a special character in either the id or the filename
[13:47] <toad_> is it the filename or the identifier having illegal chars in it that's a problem?
[13:48] <nextgens> and the /queue/ interface won't be able to handle it anymore
[13:48] <nextgens> yes it's a problem
[13:48] <toad_> filename or ident?
[13:48] <nextgens> both are related
[13:48] <toad_> ok
[13:48] * toad_ will do ident
[13:48] <nextgens> as if we use the interface, it will guess the indent
[13:49] <nextgens> from the filename
[13:49] * nextgens suspects it's the same problem
[13:49] <nextgens> try it :
[13:49] <toad_> okay, give me a string ...
[13:49] <nextgens> date > /tmp/?.txt
[13:49] <nextgens> and insert it from fproxy using the /queue/ interface
[13:50] <nextgens> once submitted, you won't be able to delete nor change its priority
[13:50] <toad_> hmmm
[13:50] <toad_> seems to work fine with FCP
[13:50] <nextgens> it works with FCP
[13:50] <nextgens> so I guess it's a browser/urlEncoding problem
[13:50] <nextgens> or a bug on /queue/
[13:51] <toad_> Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
[13:51] <toad_> good ...
[13:51] * nextgens has forced it
[13:51] <nextgens> the form itself has utf-8 forced now
[13:52] <toad_> this happens with both insert from via browsing in the browser, and with insert from via browsing in the dialog box?
[13:52] <nextgens> yes
[13:52] <nextgens> it's not a job submission problem
[13:52] <toad_> it presents it properly ...
[13:52] <toad_> in the file browser thingy
[13:53] <nextgens> you can even submit it using FCP
[13:54] * toad_ successfully deleted job
[13:54] <toad_> WORKSFORME (tm)
[13:54] <toad_> Identifier=?.txt-fred-1165240380642
[13:54] <toad_> ShortCodeDescription=Cancelled
[13:54] <toad_> CodeDescription=Cancelled by user
[13:55] <toad_> so is it the result of your changes?
[13:56] <toad_> hmmm
[13:56] <nextgens> it doesn't work for me :)
[13:56] <toad_> if I upload i through the browser, then it fails
[13:56] <toad_> it shows A with a squiggle above it instead of a with a slash
[13:56] <toad_> cancel seems to have worked though
[13:56] * toad_ updates ...
[13:56] <nextgens> yes, that's part of the problem
[13:57] <nextgens> it always use "?" or something like that
[13:57] <nextgens> try ????
[13:57] <nextgens> ;)
[13:57] <toad_> what charset does the browser SAY it's sending the form as?
[13:57] <nextgens> I don't know where to see it
[13:57] <toad_> hmmmm
[13:58] <nextgens> using tcpdump ?
[13:58] * toad_ will find out
[13:58] <toad_> yes that's one way
[13:58] <toad_> other way is just to dump the content-type from the post in the log
[13:58] * toad_ also plans to sort out text/plain rss issues today
[13:58] <toad_> but will deal with this first
[13:59] * nextgens doesn't think that either of those issues are urgent :)
[13:59] <toad_> I want a permanent solution
[13:59] <toad_> I might even go so far as to implement the IE hack
[13:59] <nextgens> :D
[13:59] <nextgens> that would be wasted time imo
[14:00] <toad_> it reduces the burden on the user, and like it or not 70%+ of our users use IE initially
[14:00] <nextgens> we have to face the problem : we can't secure ie
[14:00] <nextgens> the main reason why beeing not a technical matter
[14:00] <toad_> we can avoid the problem
[14:01] <nextgens> but a fact: noone of the devs. can^wwant to access IE
[14:01] <nextgens> if our content filter is flawed, we won't be informed
[14:01] <toad_> we will be informed by the users
[14:02] <toad_> as we were with the RSS issue
[14:02] <nextgens> as our target audience will be "non technical users"
[14:02] <nextgens> I don't think so
[14:02] <nextgens> as technical users are likely to use FF or something else ; as we do
[14:02] <toad_> You did not select a file to upload.
[14:03] <toad_> yeah, this is why real software companies have dedicated testers...
[14:03] <nextgens> indeed
[14:04] <nextgens> but as we can't^u should'nt afford having dedicated testers, we ought to forget about securing ie imho
[14:04] <nextgens> we don't have the manpower to do it
[14:05] <toad_> even though it's giving the user what he wants?
[14:05] <toad_> and even though it's quite possible on the basis of current information?
[14:05] <nextgens> moreover, in terms of usability, I do think that l10n is FAR more important than "requiering" a web-browser
[14:05] <makinlok> are freenet versions 0.5 and 0.7 compatible regarding frost boards? i mean can i see, post and read boards created in freenet 0.5 when i'm using 0.7?
[14:05] <nextgens> makinlok> no
[14:05] <toad_> nextgens: well, we do a fair amount of work on i18n
[14:05] <toad_> nextgens: like this bug
[14:06] <nextgens> indeed
[14:06] <toad_> hmmm
[14:07] <toad_> why is that form using application/x-www-urlencoded ?!
[14:07] <makinlok> well, now i understand why there are so few people on 0.7 boards
[14:07] <toad_> in fact, i don't understand what's going on here...
[14:08] <nextgens> toad_> because it wasn't previously and I tried forcing it
[14:08] <makinlok> so is it preferable to change version to 0.5 in order to have more boards with more people?
[14:08] <toad_> it seems to be sending the filename but not the data?
[14:08] <toad_> nextgens: multipart/form-data is much better
[14:08] <nextgens> :|
[14:08] <toad_> nextgens: especially if you are expecting trouble with chars
[14:09] <toad_> but what I don't get is how it can send the flename but not the data
[14:09] <toad_> queryString is formPasswor
[14:09] <toad_> d=KoHP6IXgcZkIbrvEEC-S3Q&keytype=chk&key=KSK%40&filename=%A0.txt&compress=on&
[14:09] <toad_> insert=Insert+file
[14:09] <toad_> we have formPassword
[14:09] <toad_> we have key
[14:09] <toad_> we have a relative filename
[14:09] <toad_> and no data
[14:09] <toad_> wtf?
[14:12] <makinlok> is it better to change version to 0.5 in order to have more boards with more people?
[14:12] <toad_> makinlok: maybe in the short term
[14:12] <toad_> makinlok: you could do both
[14:13] <makinlok> both? in the same computer?
[14:13] <makinlok> simultanously 0.5 and 0.7?
[14:13] <toad_> yes
[14:13] <toad_> that's quite possible
[14:13] * railk (n=railk@) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[14:13] <toad_> you need a fair amount of RAM though
[14:14] <makinlok> i see
[14:14] <makinlok> why 0.5 and 0.7 are not compatible? it seems they're like two different networks...
[14:14] <toad_> they are
[14:14] <makinlok> that's bad :(
[14:15] <toad_> it was necessary
[14:15] <toad_> it shouldn't be necessary again until after 1.0
[14:16] <makinlok> and do you know when 1.0 can be expected?
[14:16] <toad_> do you know next week's lottery numbers?
[14:16] <toad_> nextgens: If the method is "get" and the action is an HTTP URI, the user agent takes the value of action, appends a `?' to it, then appends the form data set, encoded using the "application/x-www-form-urlencoded" content type. The user agent then traverses the link to this URI. In this scenario, form data are restricted to ASCII codes.
[14:16] <toad_> nextgens: also i think it doesn't support uploading files
[14:17] <toad_> makinlok: to be clear: no, When It's Done
[14:17] <nextgens> ok so in fact it has to be form-data :|
[14:18] <nextgens> but as we aren't sending any data, I don't see the point
[14:18] <toad_> right
[14:18] * toad_ fixes
[14:18] <toad_> nextgens: huh?
[14:18] <CIA-14> toad * r11218 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/clients/http/HTTPRequest.java: Logging
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[14:20] <toad_> hmmm
[14:20] <toad_> we don't pass a content-type in for POSTs !
[14:21] * toad_ supposes that's okay most of the time ...
[14:21] <toad_> ahhh, we pick it up from the ToadletContext
[14:21] <toad_> ok
[14:22] * toad_ just wants to find out what the browser is sending before fixing the bug
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[14:23] <toad_> I've downloaded the latest Freenet software for Windows XP available on the
[14:23] <toad_> website, and I've used the updater. When I try to use the uninstaller,
[14:23] <toad_> nothing happens. I tried going though Add/Remove Programs and that hasn't
[14:23] <toad_> worked either. I was not aware that Freenet is in such an early stage of
[14:23] <toad_> development and should probably not be used by the general public. Any help
[14:23] <toad_> at all would be very greatly appreciated. Thanks!
[14:23] <toad_> nextgens: he's right. if the uninstaller doesn't work, the general public should not use it
[14:23] <toad_> nextgens: when can you fix the uninstaller, or shall we pull the windows version?
[14:23] <toad_> or maybe put a HOWTO up?
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[14:24] <nextgens> I've already created a howto somewhere iirc
[14:24] <nextgens> maybe I can display it insteed of the non-functionnal uninstaller
[14:24] <toad_> it needs to be linked from the download page, along with big red warning signs saying DON'T USE THIS ON WINDOWS
[14:24] <toad_> :)
[14:25] <toad_> well, if it's going to take that long to fix it that you need to include a howto, then we should warn the user on the download page
[14:25] <nextgens> I'll fix it but not now
[14:25] <toad_> of course this will cut our number of new users by a factor of 3 or 4
[14:25] <toad_> but it's really not acceptable to ship it without a working uninstaller
[14:25] <nextgens> I've got a lot of projects going on
[14:25] <nextgens> including AI stuffs due for next week
[14:25] <toad_> well as far as freenet goes, a working windows uninstaller has to be the top priority
[14:26] * nextgens doesn't think so
[14:26] <toad_> why not?
[14:26] <toad_> mud sticks
[14:26] <nextgens> windows users are used to install/uninstall each time they experience a proble
[14:26] <nextgens> +m
[14:26] <nextgens> we shouldn't encourage that as it harms the network
[14:27] <toad_> yes but a program that is not easily uninstallable is defective
[14:27] <toad_> and mud sticks
[14:27] <nextgens> ^-^
[14:27] <toad_> if one person downloads freenet, doesn't like it, can't uninstall it
[14:27] <toad_> they tell their friends
[14:27] <toad_> they tell more of their friends
[14:27] <toad_> eventually the anti-virus companies hear about it and add us to the list of known trojans
[14:27] <toad_> spyware
[14:27] <toad_> it's BAAAAAD
[14:28] <Zothar_Work> I agree with toad on this one
[14:28] <nextgens> hmm
[14:28] <toad_> okay, application/x-www-form-urlencoded does not specify a character set
[14:28] <toad_> that's bad too
[14:28] * ShipHead (i=ShipHead@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[14:28] * toad_ will fix 889
[14:28] <nextgens> I'll spend time on it when I manage to free up some
[14:29] <nextgens> and when I get my data back
[14:29] <toad_> nextgens: did you specify application/x-www-form-urlencoded ? i can't find it in the source
[14:29] <toad_> nextgens: of course
[14:29] <toad_> nextgens: i'm happy to leave it for a week or thereabouts
[14:29] <CIA-14> toad * r11219 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/clients/http/HTTPRequest.java: Logging
[14:29] <toad_> but if in a week it's still broken, i'm going to have to put a warning up
[14:30] <nextgens> it's likely to be at least two weeks
[14:30] <toad_> okay, so i need to put a warning up now
[14:30] <nextgens> I might manage to fix it for the new year
[14:30] <toad_> well where's the HOWTO?
[14:31] * Zothar_Work has even considered writing a quick and dirty remover in Python
[14:31] <nextgens> on the other hand, displaying the howto is trivial and could be done in the meantime
[14:31] <Zothar_Work> (haven't started yet though, the node updater interests me ATM)
[14:31] <nextgens> Zothar_Work> and you expect people to install python ?
[14:31] <Zothar_Work> nextgens: hey, it's something
[14:31] <toad_> nextgens: ok, can you do that today?
[14:31] <nextgens> or plan to use jPython ?
[14:31] <toad_> nextgens: or tell me how to?
[14:31] <Zothar_Work> Python
[14:32] <nextgens> toad_> if I get my data back
[14:32] <Zothar_Work> suppose I could try jPython, but haven't yet
[14:32] <nextgens> toad_> but I can tell you how that's sure
[14:32] <nextgens> toad_> you would have to edit registry stuffs stored on the xml file of the installer ... in order to spawn a browser pointing to the howto when they want to uninstall
[14:33] <nextgens> and we could host the howto on the wiki as it ought to be low traffic
[14:33] <nextgens> and the anonymity won't matter much as they uninstall ...
[14:33] <nextgens> moreover we would have some stats ;)
[14:34] <nextgens> regarding the howto either it's in svn, on the wiki or on my so-far dead hd
[14:34] <nextgens> but the basic is :
[14:34] <nextgens> 1) shut down the service
[14:34] <nextgens> 2) remove the service using the provided script
[14:35] <nextgens> 3) (cleanup 2 registry entries ... for the file association -not done by the current installer- ; could write a script for it)
[14:35] <nextgens> 4) remove the directory and shortcuts
[14:35] <toad_> so the basic problem is that you expect it'll take you until christmas to recover your data?
[14:36] <nextgens> no ... that I can't access any windows nor any emulator until I fix 1) my hd 2) nvidia drivers on xorg
[14:36] <nextgens> and I manage to free up some time
[14:37] <nextgens> investigating why the current uninstaller doesn't work would be interresting too
[14:37] <nextgens> but far more tricky
[14:37] <nextgens> as it's built at installation
[14:37] <nextgens> during the installation process I meant
[14:38] <nextgens> the basic problem of uninstalling on windows is that you can't remove a file in use
[14:38] <toad_> hmmm
[14:38] <nextgens> and you've to workaround many things in order not to let any leftover
[14:40] <toad_> hmmm
[14:40] <nextgens> hmmm?
[14:40] <toad_> so what should I do?
[14:41] <nextgens> ok, in fact I'll do that
[14:41] <nextgens> so that users will give me a break until I fix it properly
[14:41] <Zothar_Work> what if we didn't provide an installer for windows and simply provided a howto on how to start the node after using a tarball?
[14:42] <nextgens> what if I make "cliking on uninstall" point to a wiki page ?
[14:42] <Zothar_Work> (and provide a howto for those who currently have it installed and might want to uninstall)
[14:42] <Zothar_Work> nextgens: do it
[14:42] <nextgens> Zothar_Work> we can't use the wrapper without registry entries on w32
[14:42] <toad_> nextgens: pointing to a wiki page is fine by me
[14:42] <Zothar_Work> then we can change things as we go until we get it sorted "the Windows way(tm)"
[14:42] <Zothar_Work> nextgens: even if we don't want the service?
[14:42] <nextgens> ok, I'll do it from emu then
[14:43] <nextgens> Zothar_Work> we shouldn't allow the node to start without the service on w32
[14:43] <nextgens> if we do ; closing the window/switching user would mean kill the node
[14:43] <Zothar_Work> nextgens: well we should also have an uninstaller on w32, so we compromise
[14:43] <nextgens> it's not what we want
[14:43] <nextgens> Zothar_Work> feel free to fix it :)
[14:44] <nextgens> for me it's a matter of hourS if not days
[14:44] <Zothar_Work> nextgens: I'd have learn a lot of junk, but the thought has crossed my mind :)
[14:44] <nextgens> if it's easier for you, do it :)
[14:44] <Zothar_Work> (I'll probably try it in Python first though)
[14:44] * nextgens doesn't see how that would increase the usability anyhow if it's in python
[14:44] <nextgens> :)
[14:45] <toad_> nextgens: do we have a bug filed for fixing the uninstaller?
[14:45] <nextgens> more than one
[14:45] <Zothar_Work> nextgens: that'd be more for me to learn than usability
[14:45] <nextgens> I'll do it *now*
[14:46] <nextgens> insteed of complaining about the progressbar beeing slow
[14:46] <nextgens> of course I'll write the howto "blindly" ... but as it's on a wiki, people will improve it
[14:47] * Laurel (n=Anonymou@) Quit (Connection timed out)
[14:50] <toad_> nextgens: thanks * many
[14:50] <toad_> nextgens: good luck with your data recovery ...
[14:54] <CIA-14> nextgens * r11220 /trunk/apps/new_installer/ (RegistrySpec.xml Win_shortcutSpec.xml): new_installer: that won't fix the w32 uninstallation issues but will redirect people to a hopefully up to date HOWTO: http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetUninstall
[14:54] * nextgens rolls the new version
[15:01] <nextgens> http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetUninstall
[15:01] * nextgens writes the regedit script
[15:01] <nextgens> maybe I can bundle it into "remove-wrapper"
[15:01] <nextgens> hmm
[15:02] <nextgens> no that's probably better to let the user download it
[15:09] * Apophis2 (n=Apophis@) has joined #freenet
[15:09] <nextgens> has anyone access to a windows computer with freenet installed ?
[15:10] <nextgens> can someone give me the key related to freenet in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\ ?
[15:10] <Apophis2> yes
[15:11] <Apophis2> Freenet 0.7-a2-pre
[15:12] <nextgens> is that the exact name ?
[15:12] <nextgens> may you export me the revelant part of the registry please ?
[15:12] <nextgens> and stick the .reg file onto a pastebin
[15:12] <Apophis2> yes
[15:13] <nextgens> hmm
[15:13] <nextgens> writing a script to remove shortcuts it probably harder
[15:13] <nextgens> as they could be in a different directory/group name
[15:14] <Apophis2> http://pastebin.ca/raw/266964
[15:14] <nextgens> thanks
[15:14] <Apophis2> your welcome
[15:19] <nextgens> toad_> ok, I think it ought to work that way
[15:19] <nextgens> toad_> but I've got no means to test it
[15:20] * anonymouse (n=a@) Quit ()
[15:20] * nextgens translates : expect some feedback on @support soon
[15:20] * anonymouse (n=a@) has joined #freenet
[15:21] <CIA-14> nextgens * r11221 /trunk/apps/new_installer/build.xml: new_installer: bundle the new JRE : jre-1_5_0_09
[15:25] <nextgens> :<
[15:25] <nextgens> we are already getting hits on the uninstall page :(
[15:26] <Zothar_Work> well, one of them was me taking a look :)
[15:27] <nextgens> using IE ?
[15:27] <Zothar_Work> no
[15:27] <Zothar_Work> Firefox 1.5.0.8 on Mac OS X
[15:27] <nextgens> so that wasn't you
[15:28] <Apophis2> does that really surprises you nextgens ??? ;)
[15:28] <nextgens> yes
[15:28] <nextgens> it does
[15:28] <nextgens> I've released the new installer less that half an hour ago
[15:28] <nextgens> previous versions weren't giving the URL away
[15:28] <Zothar_Work> could be people lurking here
[15:29] <nextgens> meaning that some users have installed and decided to remove it right away!
[15:29] <Zothar_Work> compare hits on the new installer with hits to the uninstall page?
[15:29] <nextgens> will do
[15:29] <nextgens> but I need longer terms stats
[15:30] <Zothar_Work> true, but it might give you a nicer picture than you have already assumed
[15:30] <nextgens> 204.38.47.183 - - [04/Dec/2006:15:20:10 +0000] "GET /get/get.php?location=/alpha/freenet-stable-latest.jar HTTP/1.1" 302 5 "-" "Java/1.5.0_04" "-"
[15:31] <nextgens> 204.38.47.183 - - [04/Dec/2006:15:25:33 +0000] "GET /css/wikka.css HTTP/1.1" 304 - "http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetUninstall" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)" "-"
[15:31] <Apophis2> oh 30 minutes...
[15:31] <nextgens> 5 mins !
[15:31] <Apophis2> ok I understand the surprise
[15:31] <nextgens> he gave it less than 5 mins
[15:32] <nextgens> actually the node got downloaded before everything
[15:32] <nextgens> meaning that it's less the time spent downloading frost, thaw, ...
[15:33] <Zothar_Work> and no obvious hits in #freenet-refs even...
[15:33] <nextgens> toad_> you can reply to the guy on @support : http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetUninstall <= here is the todo
[15:34] <nextgens> at least the "display the todo" link seems to work :)
[15:34] <nextgens> s/todo/howto/
[15:39] <nextgens> "Sorry could not find valid secondary superblock" :<<<
[15:41] <toad_> nextgens: ok, will do
[15:49] * Apophis2_ (n=Apophis@) has joined #freenet
[15:58] <toad_> nextgens: lol
[15:59] <nextgens> toad_> that's not funny at all
[15:59] <toad_> no opennet => no instant gratification => uninstall
[15:59] <toad_> slow opennet (0.5) => no instant gratification => uninstall
[15:59] <toad_> nextgens: lol re the uninstall above, not re invalid superblock
[16:00] <_ph00> I got darknet => instantaneously up ==> cool!
[16:01] <toad_> yeah but that only happens if you are invited
[16:01] <toad_> and most people aren't invited
[16:01] <_ph00> as opposite to .5 3 days warm-up and still not really working (no port forwarding)
[16:01] <toad_> right
[16:01] <toad_> but that requires fucking around on #freenet-refs
[16:01] <nextgens> 3days warm up ? you are lucky
[16:01] <toad_> and we don't have a proper invitation mechanism either
[16:01] <_ph00> really?
[16:01] <toad_> so it's not easy to invite your friends
[16:02] <_ph00> no actually, it was like thins, after 3 days warm up I realized that it would never really work because I can't port forward so I quit
[16:02] * nextgens sums up his todo
[16:02] <_ph00> this*
[16:02] <nextgens> "overflow"
[16:02] * nextgens gaves up
[16:03] <_ph00> with darknet and #freenet-refs I got it working within minutes, but I see many ppl complaining about that being 'difficult'
[16:03] <nextgens> I do think that sorting out the plugin api is urgent
[16:04] <_ph00> now, you may say that I'm the usual tinfoil hat paranoid, and that I always play devil's advocate because I think it's fun when many people say something, to say the opposite
[16:04] <nextgens> people will be able to do cool stuffs if they could plug onto the node using their favourite language
[16:04] <nextgens> including "reference swapping" improved bots
[16:04] <_ph00> but I don't like opeenet, and I even think that at l??east some of the people who are pushing for opennet are actually DoD guys who want to have a easier life
[16:05] <_ph00> (yes I know, I should see a therapist... whatever...)
[16:05] <nextgens> arguably they can already do it with fcp hoks
[16:05] <nextgens> +o
[16:06] <toad_> _ph00: it is difficult
[16:06] <_ph00> of course they can, they can with #freenet-refs and they can in other ways, and probably some of those guys are *really* good; I think Western gov't and particularly americans were the first to realize that "hire the hacker" was the way to go
[16:06] <toad_> _ph00: it involves talking to human beings. computers are supposed to do that. furthermore it hammers home the fact that freenet without a true opennet is insecure.
[16:07] * Apophis2 (n=Apophis@) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[16:07] <_ph00> but inviting "real" world friends to join freenet is *very* difficult. I've bee4n annonying my friends to the point that they started avoiding me, and yet I haven't gotten ONE of them to install a node
[16:07] <toad_> for the common sense reason that you have to connect to somebody's computer
[16:07] <toad_> and connecting to somebody's computer is insecure
[16:07] <_ph00> yes
[16:07] <toad_> sadly the user doesn't realise that this happens on opennet too
[16:08] <_ph00> "even" if you do know and actually trus the person, as long as the connection has to bwe routed thru the internet
[16:08] <toad_> nextgens: ref bot plugins are a bad idea
[16:09] <toad_> nextgens: no more so than ref scripts though
[16:09] <toad_> common sense is a PITA. it's "the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18"
[16:09] <_ph00> huh? only because they don??'t have to manually give their iPs to anyone? don't they realize that their nodes would be "shouting "Attention everyone! There's a freenet node here! anyone wants to connect?" (when I explain it in these terms to noobs most of them realize instantly what the problem is)
[16:10] * jman88 (i=jman@) Quit (Connection timed out)
[16:10] <_ph00> btw, let's see if those non-faq-reading noobs did get along somehow...
[16:10] <toad_> _ph00: newbies do not read FAQs
[16:10] <toad_> they do not even read what we put on the screen in the installer
[16:10] <toad_> they have better things to do
[16:10] <toad_> with their time
[16:10] <_ph00> ..or the topics
[16:11] <_ph00> but having someone on the channels reminding them to do that does help a bit
[16:12] <CIA-14> toad * r11222 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/clients/http/HTTPRequest.java:
[16:12] <CIA-14> Filenames etc in multipart/form-data are in UTF-8 (because we asked the browser to send them in UTF-8).
[16:12] <CIA-14> Minor logging.
[16:13] <CIA-14> toad * r11223 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/keys/FreenetURI.java: Decode before establishing key type.
[16:13] <CIA-14> toad * r11224 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/support/URIPreEncoder.java: Comments
[16:15] <CIA-14> toad * r11225 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/clients/http/ (16 files):
[16:15] <CIA-14> Factor out creation of a form tag with correct parameters, and inclusion of the formPassword, into a method on ToadletContext.
[16:15] <CIA-14> Always include accept-charset=UTF-8, enctype=multipart/form-data.
[16:15] <CIA-14> This and 11222 fix #889, as well as saving some code.
[16:43] <CIA-14> nextgens * r11226 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/node/PeerNode.java: Use Fields.stringToBool where appropriate
[16:48] <CIA-14> nextgens * r11227 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/node/PeerNode.java: Doh.
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[16:49] <CIA-14> toad * r11228 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/clients/http/filter/JPEGFilter.java: No functional changes.
[16:56] * ldoc_ (n=ldoc@) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
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[17:15] <nextgens> \o/ it boots up
[17:22] <nextgens> cat /var/log/vlogger/wiki.freenetproject.org/access.log |grep /FreenetUninstall|cut -d\ -f1|sort |uniq|wc -l
[17:22] <nextgens> 11
[17:22] * nextgens shouldn't have set up such monitoring facilities
[17:34] * sbc (n=sbc@) has joined #freenet
[17:37] <Zothar_Work> nextgens: well, the news isn't always unpleasant from monitoring facilities...
[17:50] * Apophis2_ (n=Apophis@) Quit ("Verlassend")
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[18:21] <nextgens> toad_> have you seen http://code.bulix.org/5sr3ji-25247 ?
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[20:31] <Serenity> good day everone
[20:31] * MikeW (n=em@) has joined #freenet
[20:31] <Zothar_Work> greets
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[21:14] * Owner (n=chatzill@) has joined #freenet
[21:16] * Owner is now known as Tuxx
[21:16] <Tuxx> msg NickServ IDENTIFY Tuxx
[21:19] * Tuxx (n=chatzill@) has left #freenet
[21:20] <MikeW> uh huh
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[21:33] <Tuxx> fairly new to IRC , new to freenet, strugle to read info, so who to trust to get started?
[21:34] <Zothar_Work> nextgens: if you're around, perhaps the pastebin mentioned in the #freenet-refs topic could be adjusted; bulix has been having lots of trouble lately
[21:34] <nextgens> Zothar_Work> known issue
[21:34] <nextgens> it's a dns problem
[21:34] <nextgens> will be solved ... sooon
[21:35] <Zothar_Work> that'd be cool
[21:36] <_ph00> Tuxx; good question
[21:37] <Zothar_Work> Tuxx: well, in theory, you can trust the devs with refs (if you can get any of them to trade) since they wrote the code you're running anyway)
[21:37] <Tuxx> thanks for your reply ,, just try to understand how it works here
[21:40] <Tuxx> from all info i read then there seem to be some bublic refs that i should avoid to use ,, well not easy to get started ,, will try to understand about devs with refs and how to get in contact
[21:41] * greycat (i=rfc1413@) Quit ("This time the bullet cold rocked ya / A yellow ribbon instead of a swastika")
[21:42] <_ph00> as you probably have read about, the concept of darknet is trusting your peers, but many people actually connect to strangers to get connected, that happens because we are to few.
[21:42] * Froth (i=froth@) has joined #freenet
[21:43] <Froth> I accidentally registered with a gibberish password can anyone help me o_o
[21:43] <Froth> will I have to just use a different name
[21:43] <_ph00> personally, I try to hang around here so I *will* know someone to connect to when we will actally need to run *true* darkent (i.e. trustig your peers)
[21:43] <Tuxx> yep, thanx for your info ,, would help to just hang around
[21:43] <Zothar_Work> Froth: probably
[21:43] <Froth> or can I get a system op to de register me
[21:44] <Froth> ah all right
[21:44] <_ph00> Froth; are you still identified?
[21:44] <Zothar_Work> I'm hardly an expert though
[21:44] <Froth> nope
[21:44] <_ph00> if yes, you can do /ns set password <new pass>
[21:44] <_ph00> ouch
[21:44] <_ph00> ok
[21:44] <Froth> I thought I registered with a password I know but apparently not..
[21:44] <Froth> cause it's wrong
[21:44] * Froth is now known as fr0th
[21:45] <fr0th> all right thanks
[21:45] * fr0th (i=froth@) has left #freenet
[21:49] <sbc> _ph00: And I hang around here to trick you (and others) into trusting me when that time comes... Muahah! :P
[21:49] <_ph00> fine
[21:49] <_ph00> that's a risk, I suppose
[21:49] <_ph00> (I may be doing the same thing)
[21:50] <_ph00> I mean, *any* freenet user could be an undercover agent including me and you, of course
[21:50] <sbc> of course
[21:50] <sbc> That's why freenet needs to become good enough for me to get my real friends to start using it.
[21:51] <sbc> 'good enough' in every way. Content, usability, stability etc...
[21:52] * Zothar_Work (n=chatzill@) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.8/2006102516]")
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[22:06] <phyh> ++
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[22:33] <CIA-14> jflesch * r11229 /trunk/apps/Thaw/src/thaw/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Add option 'right click -> paste' to some dialogs
[22:59] <CIA-14> jflesch * r11230 /trunk/apps/Thaw/src/thaw/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Should fix popup behavior
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[23:08] <asho> hi guys
[23:08] <asho> i'm having trouble downloading the freenet software
[23:08] <asho> could i please have some help from someone?
[23:08] <asho> :)
[23:10] <asho> hello?
[23:10] * Loewenkoenig (n=chatzill@) has joined #freenet
[23:10] <asho> :|
[23:11] <asho> hi leo
[23:12] * lionking (n=email@) has joined #freenet
[23:13] * Loewenkoenig (n=chatzill@) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:13] <lionking> hiho
[23:14] <asho> hi lionking
[23:15] <asho> the 'thaw' part of the freenet installer is taking ages to download!!! should it be doing that?
[23:15] <lionking> ive got a dedicated server... how can i get freenet on it?
[23:16] <lionking> i dont know asho
[23:19] <_ph00> is that nick made out of two beer brands, or it's just me?
[23:20] <_ph00> afk
[23:20] <lionking> can someone help me?
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[23:21] <asho> i need help too.. hahah
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[23:52] <nextgens> asho> it's a temporary issue
[23:52] <nextgens> asho> a mirroring glitch ... it ought to be fixed now
[23:53] <nextgens> Jflesch> any ETA on thaw .6 ?
[23:54] * lionking is now known as lionkin|schlafen
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[23:58] <nextgens> toad_> maybe we could add a link to something like http://gogloom.com/client2/index2?mainCHAT=1&network=FreeNode&channel=%23freenet&username=&pack= on our welcome page (after the node installation)
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[23:59] <Jflesch> nextgens: approximatively two or three days I think
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