Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
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[0:13] <Ralith> is it just me, or is frost slow today?
[0:15] <OctobersDark> Ralith: i wasn't around when they named these aps, but think about it...
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[0:15] * Ralith is getting very few posts in his new alpha
[0:16] <OctobersDark> oh Ralith did you tweak the days setting?
[0:16] <OctobersDark> I'm not sure if i told you BOUT THAT
[0:17] <Ralith> days setting?
[0:17] <Ralith> >_>
[0:18] <OctobersDark> yep, under preferences, you probably want to extend the days out to 30 or even 60
[0:18] <OctobersDark> it is the third slot down i think
[0:19] <OctobersDark> but somedays there doesn't seem to be much discussion going on on the boards
[0:19] <Ralith> ah, thanks
[0:19] * Ralith sets the setting
[0:19] <OctobersDark> plus too Ralith , you can run the old frost in tandem
[0:19] <Ralith> not after installing over it I can't :P
[0:19] <Ralith> besides, I like the new frost
[0:19] <OctobersDark> i think bblack even suggests that because of the alpha status of the new one
[0:20] <OctobersDark> oh.
[0:20] <OctobersDark> well, enjoy the new frost then :-)
[0:20] <OctobersDark> you can manually ask to refresh the boards too periodically
[0:21] <OctobersDark> right-click up there at the top of the list of boards
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[0:22] <Futura321> hi all
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[0:53] <ffff> can i get some connections?
[0:54] <ffff> oh rigt just read topic sorry
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[1:21] <rah> my node seems to have been trying to download 998 for quite a while
[1:24] <OctobersDark> you can get it manually rah
[1:24] <rah> I don't want to get it manually; I want my node to work :)
[1:25] <OctobersDark> ok
[1:25] <OctobersDark> work node, work
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[1:36] <Futura321> Hi... why its so slow to view freenetwebs?
[1:36] <Futura321> any reccomended configuration or so? :(
[1:37] <Ralith> get peers who have peers?
[1:37] <Futura321> dunno if they have peers :(
[1:37] <Futura321> do u wanna be my peer?
[1:37] <Ralith> got too many already
[1:38] <Futura321> okas, thanks anyway, ill go on searching :)
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[6:19] <Ralith> hanging out in the refs channel I'm seeing a lot of new users. This seems promising.
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[8:55] <OctobersDark> toad_: The requested URL /alpha/plugins/Librarian/Librarian-r10964.jar was not found on this server.
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[8:58] <warpi> nextgens: hey
[8:58] <OctobersDark> toad_: I know you won't be back till monday (hi. happy monday) but i can't find Librarian-r10964.jar anywhere
[8:58] <warpi> anyone awake?
[8:59] <warpi> I've been thinking about how freenet distribiute information...
[8:59] <warpi> does anyone know?
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[9:06] <warpi> kryten4k: hey!
[9:06] <OctobersDark> warpi: I don't 'know' but here is something you might be looking for: http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FreenetZeroPointSevenSecurity
[9:06] <warpi> OctobersDark: okay. reading that first then :)
[9:07] <warpi> anyways, I have an id?a of how to build a faster freenet
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[9:09] <kryten4k> hey
[9:09] <kryten4k> how does one find freenet boards?
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[9:10] <OctobersDark> kryten4k: define "boards"
[9:10] <warpi> kryten4k: boards?
[9:11] <kryten4k> in frost they call them boards. it's sort of news groups
[9:11] <HugTheLemur> kryten4k, you mean frost boards?
[9:11] <kryten4k> yes
[9:11] <kryten4k> sry, should be more descriptive
[9:11] <HugTheLemur> well, for me it just worked... i started frost
[9:11] <HugTheLemur> and left it running
[9:11] <HugTheLemur> and clicking on those categories on the left tree control
[9:12] <HugTheLemur> more and more messages appear
[9:12] <kryten4k> yeah, i got those too. but i cant help thinking there are more out there that don't list
[9:12] <HugTheLemur> true
[9:14] <kryten4k> i added mp3 and it has messages in it so i wonder if there is a way to find an index or do a search or something
[9:14] <HugTheLemur> well
[9:14] <HugTheLemur> there is a search button
[9:14] <HugTheLemur> but i think that's only for messages
[9:14] <HugTheLemur> actually a search tab
[9:14] <HugTheLemur> in the right frame
[9:15] <kryten4k> that seems to just search the current listed frost boards
[9:15] <HugTheLemur> yep
[9:15] <HugTheLemur> exactly
[9:17] <OctobersDark> kryten4k: did you click on the globe icon at the top
[9:19] <kryten4k> yes, that was helpfull. thanks
[9:20] <HugTheLemur> yep, thanks OctobersDark :-)
[9:21] <OctobersDark> You guys don't forget to extend out you days fetched to, to perhaps 30 or 60 under prefrences, and make sure you have the 'boards' board
[9:23] <OctobersDark> as boards are posted to 'boards' you can add them in via right-click
[9:23] <HugTheLemur> yep i have that
[9:24] <OctobersDark> you may also want to try the newer alpha frost, the post for the key was posted to 'frost' nov 7
[9:25] <OctobersDark> I don't think the alpha frost is availabel on the www frost site, but i didn't really look closely
[9:31] <HugTheLemur> this 0.7 version of fn works much faster than 0.5, but I do get a lot of Data not found errors...
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[9:39] <Slurpy> is there a way to get more info on your freenode than the statistics screen. like how much data is in use and what the current traffic rate is
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[9:47] <OctobersDark> Slurpy: you can enable advanced darknet on the config page for fproxy, that will give you more detail, and probably raise more questions :-)
[9:48] <Slurpy> ok:)
[9:50] <Slurpy> OctobersDark: will my node keep gathering freenet pages, even when I'm not using it? ie I allocated 3GB 2 days ago, and its only use for 4%.
[9:50] <OctobersDark> yep, it should Slurpy afaik
[9:51] <Slurpy> Octo:any idea when the use goes up? do I need to connect to older refs?
[9:52] <OctobersDark> they may oy may not be the pages you want, or pieces of the pages you want, or wahtever, but you help out the network with your 3G allocation, better than the 1G
[9:52] <OctobersDark> you might Slurpy, you might be at the end of newer nodes
[9:52] <Slurpy> well as far as I know, they are most likely newer nodes :(
[9:55] <OctobersDark> hang in Slurpy, it does get better
[9:56] <Slurpy> will do :)
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[10:15] <CIA-14> mrogers * r11002 /trunk/apps/load-balancing-sims/phase7/sim/ (Event.java Node.java Sim.java handlers/MessageHandler.java): RouteNotFound is not a failure; optionally start logging after waiting for the initial conditions to settle
[10:37] <CIA-14> mrogers * r11003 /trunk/apps/load-balancing-sims/phase7/sim/ (Sim.java handlers/MessageHandler.java): Increase the throttle after receiving a RouteNotFound
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[11:10] <CIA-14> mrogers * r11004 /trunk/apps/load-balancing-sims/phase7/sim/handlers/MessageHandler.java: Don't code while hung over
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[11:47] <IMCensored1> haha i just noticed that said "dont code while hung over"...
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[12:06] <nextgens> warpi> hey
[12:06] <nextgens> warpi> I suggest you post your ideas on @devl
[12:06] <nextgens> btw, I'm all hears open
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[12:16] <hopeatikari> hi all
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[12:28] <r3b31> is there onyone that uses freenet for a long a time i need a good cahe...plz if there is someone to add me...
[12:28] <r3b31> *anyone
[12:35] <CIA-14> nextgens * r11005 /trunk/apps/new_installer/res/unix/bin/1run.sh:
[12:35] <CIA-14> 890:
[12:35] <CIA-14> Change the 1run.sh script to be SH compliant
[12:36] <r3b31> ???
[12:41] <hopeatikari> refs are exchanced at #freenet-refs channel
[12:41] * Yukishiro (n=zhaan@) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.8/2006102516]")
[12:45] <CIA-14> nextgens * r11006 /trunk/apps/installer/installclasspath/linux/update.sh: resolves #890: update.sh should be sh compliant now
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[12:48] <nextgens> I would like feedback on that one
[12:48] <nextgens> especially from guys using *bsd/ubuntu or some other weird OS not using bash as its default shell ;)
[12:57] <r3b31> i know thats not a ref channel but i dont have the right peers to have access in darknet...
[13:07] <CIA-14> nextgens * r11007 /trunk/apps/new_installer/res/INSTALL:
[13:07] <CIA-14> Commit ph00's INSTALL file
[13:07] <CIA-14> (http://archives.freenetproject.org/message/20061019.141758.3645e469.en.html) so
[13:07] <CIA-14> that we can bundle it into our tarball ; maybe the wording ought to be improved
[13:07] <CIA-14> once again ... feel free to contribute.
[13:08] <nextgens> what do you mean the right peers ?
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[13:11] <r3b31> look all my peers are noobs at freenet (as i am) is obvious that having all these people ass peers doesnt really help cauze nobody is really connected with someone that has a good cache...i have a smaller darknet with this people...
[13:13] <r3b31> so allthough iam connected with 6 peers i cant open any freenet page... :(
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[13:21] <r3b31> nobody can help me???
[13:23] <r3b31> and i forgot to mension i am running under win xp
[13:23] <r3b31> yes i know silly thing to do...but i don,t have any good linux distr. at the moment
[13:24] <MineHaunter> my freenet node runs fine under win xp
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[13:33] <r3b31> it runs fine because you have good peers thats what i am talking about... i dont
[13:34] <r3b31> ok i got the messege thnx nice open source spirit ppl
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[13:35] <MineHaunter> patience....
[13:35] <nextgens> :/
[13:36] <MineHaunter> you don't need good peers, you need patience
[13:36] <nextgens> moreover it's likely that his peers will find some "external" links in a near futur
[13:37] <MineHaunter> I think he's going to quit freenet very soon :)
[13:41] <MineHaunter> thinking of it, he mumbled something about open source... maybe he was willing to pay for a license to have a good peer
[13:41] <MineHaunter> I should have given him my ref :P
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[15:38] <CIA-14> zothar * r11008 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Added unclaimed FIFO size statistic. Tweaked "Initializing Node" log message formatting and information.
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[15:40] <jfoxman59> salut tout le monde je souhaite savoir s'il y a un moyen de d?sinstaller freenet en conservant les noeuds que j'ai li? car j'ai 16 noeuds et pas un seul en connection ( pas de routeur, conexion direct par modem adsl, et pas de firewall)
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[15:53] <Zothar> try also #freenet-fr #freenet-se, #freenet-es, #freenet-it
[15:55] <jfoxman59> ok thanks
[15:59] <jfoxman59> what can i do for repair that "Could not connect to the STUN server: stun.voxgratia.org : java.net.SocketException: socket closed - trying another..." thanks you
[16:05] <OctobersDark> nextgens: I used the new update.sh on my Ubuntu 6.06;seemd to work OK-reasults are pasted here: http://dark-code.bulix.org/zw2skf-23903?raw
[16:07] <Zothar> jfoxman59: sounds like that STUN server is down; if you're getting that message for 3 or 4 different servers, there might be a firewall issue
[16:08] <jfoxman59> i have 12 node disconnected and 4 nodes never connected
[16:11] <Zothar> yeah, that doesn't sound good
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[16:19] <jfoxman59> what you advised to me
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[16:36] <nextgens> OctobersDark> ok, I've marked the issue as resolved
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[16:40] <nextgens> Zothar> how are you planning to discard those unclaimed packets ?
[16:41] <nextgens> I mean when, using what ?
[16:41] <Zothar> nextgens: I've already written the code and am just testing it; I've added to the loop that checks a filter against each message in _unclaimed
[16:41] <nextgens> ah ok
[16:43] <rah> is there a configuration option to change the frequency that the current status gets logged?
[16:44] <Zothar> I've been graphing the new unclaimedFIFOSize stat and at least on one of my nodes, it gained 600 items in 100 seconds, doubling in size; kinda weird to me
[16:44] <rah> or am I going to have to get medieval on some classes?
[16:44] <Zothar> rah: the once a second count of connected/disconnected/etc peers?
[16:44] <rah> Zothar: it's once every 5 seconds here, but yes
[16:45] <Zothar> maybe it got changed; why?
[16:45] <Zothar> (there isn't currently a setting)
[16:46] <Zothar> rah: why do you want to change it?
[16:46] <rah> because I don't want to have the status needlessly filling up my logs
[16:46] <rah> especially when I'm tailing them in a terminal
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[16:47] <Zothar> well, for filling up the logs, perhaps you'd rather change the log level?
[16:47] <nextgens> you can hide them changing the loglevel
[16:47] <Zothar> for tailing to a terminal; I just run it through grep
[16:48] <rah> but that sucks
[16:49] <Zothar> now if you want to talk about filling up logs, get a peer or two in a WouldBlockException state for awhile... :)
[16:50] <Zothar> rah: it's not currently a setting, but it could be made such fairly easily as the frequency is in one place in the code; if it's interesting enough to you, take a look at the code and figure out what's going on; perhaps you can join the dev team in the process :)
[16:50] <Zothar> (that's how I got started)
[16:50] * nextgens is hung over
[16:50] * Zothar hopes whomever is hanging nextgens over something doesn't let go
[16:50] <Zothar> :)
[16:50] <rah> Zothar: I'm a seasoned free software developer already
[16:50] <rah> Zothar: I understand how it goes :)
[16:51] <Zothar> rah: that's fine, but do you know the Freenet code :)
[16:51] <rah> no; I don't think it's a good idea to use Java
[16:51] <rah> so I won't put any resources into supporting it
[16:51] * nextgens is willing to troll today
[16:52] <nextgens> rah> hmm and what do you have exactly against the language ?
[16:52] <Zothar> well, I think I would have to disagree with you on that one; there are maybe one or two other language choices that meet the needs Freenet has and Java was pretty much the only choice back when it was started
[16:52] <rah> nextgens: in the language, multiple inheritance
[16:52] <rah> nextgens: but the language isn't the only issue
[16:52] <Zothar> nextgens: I suppose everything was done wrong
[16:53] <rah> Zothar: see, I'd have chosen one of the other two :)
[16:53] <Zothar> rah: which one/two languages do you have in mind?
[16:53] <rah> C++ or C
[16:53] <rah> C++, basically
[16:54] <Zothar> yeah, and portability would be _much_ more of a pain; Java's classlib probably lends itself better to Freenet
[16:54] <nextgens> and do you know how many manpower would have been spent debugging memory leaks ?
[16:54] <rah> the lack of portability of C++ is a myth
[16:54] <nextgens> :D
[16:55] <Zothar> rah: it's a fact when you compre the portability of C++ to Java
[16:55] <rah> nextgens: that's an issue with wuality of programming, not language choice
[16:55] <Zothar> it takes manpower to get quality programming
[16:55] <nextgens> rah> there you're wrong ... there is no virtual machine for c++
[16:55] <rah> Zothar: I don't believe that's true
[16:55] <rah> nextgens: there are no memory leaks either
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[16:56] <Zothar> well, I'm not fanboy of Java, but I think in Freenet's case, it makes a lot of sense considering when the project was started
[16:56] <Zothar> -t
[16:56] <rah> Zothar: there are plenty of portable base C++ libraries to provide things like sockets, UIs, linked lists, etc, just like the java libraries
[16:57] <rah> Zothar: like I said, C++ being non-portable is a myth
[16:57] <Zothar> yeah, and how many of them have to worry about nasty things like pointers?
[16:57] <rah> Zothar: mainly because of the incompleteness of compilers in the past
[16:57] <nextgens> Zothar> pointers isn't that hard
[16:57] <rah> pointers aren't nasty
[16:57] <rah> they're beautiful
[16:57] <nextgens> indeed
[16:57] <Zothar> having to worry about them vs. others is nasty
[16:58] <rah> oh yeah, that's another thing
[16:58] <rah> no pointers in Java
[16:58] <Zothar> yes, they can be beautiful; they can also be wiley
[16:58] <nextgens> but still, I would be interrested in knowing wich library rah would be suggesting for network IOs
[16:58] <Zothar> especially one that works everywhere Java doe
[16:58] <Zothar> +s
[16:59] <nextgens> one which was available when the project has started -around 2000-
[16:59] <nextgens> and wich would run on weird platforms
[16:59] <nextgens> including *old* unixes
[17:00] <rah> nextgens: http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE.html
[17:00] * Zothar could almost feel the mad Googling a second ago
[17:01] <rah> :)
[17:01] * earthsound (n=another1@) has joined #freenet
[17:01] <earthsound> hello
[17:02] <rah> http://www.gnu.org/software/commoncpp/
[17:02] <rah> yeah, I thought there was some GNU code as well
[17:02] <rah> that was around back in 2000, too
[17:02] <rah> under a different name
[17:03] <earthsound> is there a way to check on the status of the node fetching the latest update?
[17:03] <rah> something to do with monkeys IIRC
[17:03] <rah> earthsound: probably not
[17:03] <nextgens> http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE/
[17:04] <Zothar> earthsound: not really ATM; if you're not running at least 998, you'll probably have to update manually because of some bugs in the auto-update mechanism
[17:04] <nextgens> the books are dated from 2001+
[17:04] <nextgens> I bet it wasn't usable before
[17:04] <rah> erm
[17:04] <rah> I bet it was
[17:04] <rah> the books wouldn't have been written before the code was usable
[17:04] <rah> which means the code was usable before 2001
[17:04] <earthsound> Zothar: I'm running Build #994 r10872:10874M, and it's been telling me for quite a while that it's fetching the update :|
[17:05] <rah> I bet the code was usable in 1998!
[17:05] <Zothar> earthsound: use update.sh/update.cmd to update your node because of the auto-update bugs
[17:05] <rah> Zothar: what auto-update bugs?
[17:05] <earthsound> should I shut the node down first, or will it update while running?
[17:05] <Zothar> rah: yeah, saw that on the ACE+Java page
[17:06] <Zothar> rah: the ones that prevented it from working and that 998 should hopefully have fixed (check the commit logs for specifics :)
[17:06] <rah> did anyone tell the public that the autoupdate function doesn't work?
[17:06] <Zothar> earthsound: some have said shutdown first; I usually don't, but then I'm not on Windows, where it may be more of a problem
[17:06] <Zothar> rah: "Alpha"
[17:06] <Zothar> It was mentioned in the announce for 998 I believe
[17:06] <rah> Zothar: what do you mean?
[17:07] <rah> where was the announcement made?
[17:07] <Zothar> rah: Freenet is currently Alpha software
[17:07] <Zothar> the tech and devl mailing lists I believe it was
[17:07] <rah> yes, but it's publically released alpha software
[17:07] <rah> on the website, the download page says to download 0.7
[17:08] <rah> there should be a news web page that details these things
[17:08] <rah> see, that kind of thing is news
[17:09] <rah> what's on the current freenet "news" page is really public relations, not news
[17:11] <Zothar> it takes someone to make those changes and apparently everyone that might make those changes has been busy elsewhere
[17:11] <OctobersDark> it was anounced on the 'Announce' board 11-15 "Please upgrade. You may have to upgrade to 998 manually using the
[17:11] <OctobersDark> update.sh or update.cmd scripts."
[17:11] <OctobersDark> there is more, but i don't want to spam the channel
[17:12] <rah> OctobersDark: I don't know what the 'Announce' board is
[17:12] * randomnode (n=randomno@) has joined #freenet
[17:13] <rah> there's no "Announcements" page on the website
[17:13] <Zothar> rah: then you're not very involved in Freenet :) It's a board on frost, a Freenet FCP client that provides usenet-style messaging on top of Freenet
[17:13] <rah> erm
[17:13] <rah> perhaps it would be an idea to add the information to the website?
[17:13] <rah> and not just frost?
[17:14] <Zothar> I think the website might be being reserved for much more long term type announcements
[17:14] <Zothar> remember, it was also announced on a couple of mailing lists
[17:14] <OctobersDark> I think that we need to start taking out radio ads in major markets
[17:14] <rah> why is it "reserved"?
[17:14] <rah> I don't think such a reservation would serve any purpose
[17:15] <rah> OctobersDark: no, we don't
[17:15] <nextgens> it has been announced on @support, @tech, on frost : #freenet #Announce and in the commit message
[17:15] <rah> nextgens: but not on the website?
[17:15] <nextgens> yes, not on the website
[17:15] <rah> why not?
[17:15] <CIA-14> zothar * r11009 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/io/comm/UdpSocketManager.java: Bug 899: Drop messages in the _unclaimed FIFO if they're still around an hour later after local instantiation.
[17:16] <nextgens> we had some while ago a "news" page summing up the changelog
[17:16] <nextgens> but as noone was maintaining it we have dropped it
[17:16] <rah> ah
[17:16] <rah> I don't really understand
[17:16] <rah> they sent messages to all those forums, but couldn't be bothered to update a webpage?
[17:16] <rah> strange
[17:17] <nextgens> rah> by they you mean toad or me
[17:18] <rah> ok
[17:18] <rah> ...
[17:18] <Zothar> rah: I'm guessing you're not voluneering to fix this "strangeness" either
[17:18] <rah> Zothar: I don't make release announcements
[17:18] <nextgens> ;=
[17:18] <Zothar> you don't have to make release announcements to make sure that the website gets them
[17:19] <rah> erm
[17:19] <rah> the issue is the omission of one particular medium from a list of media that get sent the announcement
[17:19] <earthsound> I agree with rah; just b/c it's announced everywhere you've mentioned, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be mentioned on the web site :| I mean, I would assume the majority of ppl would get their info from the site. and how is rah (or anyone else not directly related to the project) supposed to update the site?
[17:20] <nextgens> you really go and check out the website on a regular basis ?
[17:20] <Zothar> earthsound: so you're volunteering?
[17:20] * nextgens hardly does
[17:20] <earthsound> I suppose I'm the rare type that would come in here and ask. I don't have time to watch mailing lists, commit logs, etc. and when I couldn't find it on the web site, I came here
[17:20] <rah> nextgens: I would if there were announcements on there
[17:20] <earthsound> nextgens: just b/c you don't, doesn't mean that most won't go there to check for latest info
[17:20] <rah> nextgens: as it is, the website is pretty useless
[17:21] <earthsound> Zothar: whoever is in charge of updating the web site now should be doing it :)
[17:21] <rah> nextgens: in fact, I'd say it gives quite a bad impression
[17:21] <earthsound> I don't see what the difficulty here is
[17:21] <Zothar> AFAIK, most people only see the website when they first check out the project and maybe on occasion after that; I think most people get their news on the mailing lists or frost (or here) since that's where they hang out anyway; it's not like the website has forums to keep "eyeballs"
[17:21] <earthsound> ...assuming there is a person(s) who actually updates the web site on occasion ;)
[17:21] <rah> Zothar: why do you think that?
[17:21] <nextgens> it's not difficulty .. it's a matter of willingness/time spared/efficiency
[17:22] <Zothar> earthsound: you seem to assume that we've hired someone to be a webmaster
[17:22] <rah> Zothar: no he doesn't
[17:22] <earthsound> Zothar: nope, I just assumed that since there was a news section, wiki, etc. that people were updating info on the non-freenet pages. that's all
[17:22] <rah> Zothar: probably more unpaid people regularly update webpages than do paid people
[17:22] <rah> in the world as a whole, that is
[17:22] <Zothar> rah: because the website is not where the "eyeballs" are; I don't have stats for the website, but I do know that that's not where the Freenet community is
[17:23] <rah> Zothar: which eyeballs? how do you know where the eyeballs are and aren't?
[17:23] <nextgens> rah> the only paid person is toad and indeed he hardly ever commit to the website ... most of the time I do or Ian does
[17:24] * nextgens does have the stats
[17:24] <rah> nextgens: what's your point?
[17:24] <Zothar> rah: yes, but my point is that there is no person that is _the_ website person and even if there were, they can't be forced to do anything with it unless they're paid; there is not even a "the" person for the website, it's whomever wants something changed badly enough to do it
[17:24] <earthsound> ah, but by "freenet community" you may be referring to regulars who have been involved in some way for a long time. I would wager a bet that most users are not part of the community, but are curious enough to run a node and poke around a bit. those ppl would probably get there info from the web. I could be wrong, of course
[17:24] <rah> Zothar: perhaps toad should be "the" person?
[17:25] <nextgens> I suggest we move the troll onto @tech
[17:25] <Zothar> rah: what's yours? It seems that all you're doing here is complaining and/or trolling by telling some devs that you don't like something, but aren't volunteering (this _is_ open source and you've said you're familiar with open source) to do anything about
[17:25] <nextgens> write there and complain there is no news on the website
[17:25] <rah> Zothar: I'm pointing out problems, and offering ideas for solutions
[17:25] <Zothar> rah: no because he's paid to code more than he's paid to do HTML/XHTML/etc
[17:26] <Zothar> rah: no, you're just saying you don't like something and that you want _someone else_ to do something about it
[17:26] <rah> not really
[17:26] <Zothar> I don't think there's any shortage of problems that are known to the developers
[17:26] <rah> people already do something
[17:26] <Zothar> yes, we do and it's just not what you want
[17:26] <rah> I'm saying "hey, why don't you do this differently, and increase the utility of your efforts"
[17:27] <Zothar> perhaps I've not been active long enough, but I believe you're the first to say anything about it in a long time
[17:27] <Zothar> since you just learned about Frost, I'm thinking you're still rather new around here
[17:27] <rah> lol
[17:27] <rah> what makes you think I just learned about frost
[17:27] <rah> ?
[17:28] <Zothar> because you didn't know what an "Announce" board was?
[17:28] <rah> heh
[17:28] <rah> I didn't know what you were referring to in that instance
[17:28] <rah> that doesn't mean I don't know there's a freenet-announce board on frost
[17:28] <rah> but you didn't say freenet-announce
[17:29] <rah> you said "Announce"
[17:29] <Zothar> well, that's the only place Freenet related that there is a forum-like environment, so it seems to me that that would be the only logical place for such a board
[17:29] <CIA-14> nextgens * r11010 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/store/BerkeleyDBFreenetStore.java: Fix an ArithmeticException : thanks to UniquePerson for spotting it
[17:29] <rah> hmm
[17:29] <rah> I apologise
[17:30] <rah> there is an "Announce" board on frost
[17:30] <rah> it's frost-announce, not freenet-announce
[17:30] <rah> still, I wasn't sure what you meant
[17:30] <Zothar> [11:12:28] <rah> OctobersDark: I don't know what the 'Announce' board is
[17:31] <rah> perhaps I should have phrased that differently
[17:31] <Zothar> anyway, I'm off to coding/bugfixing
[17:31] <rah> I didn't know what he meant by "the 'Announce' board"
[17:31] <nextgens> there is a keyed board called Announce
[17:31] <rah> I know
[17:32] <rah> I didn't know he was referring to a frost board, though
[17:32] <nextgens> its pubkey is : SSK@NFfDn-A~x0sjUKDXWUUGrmYox5kjnBCXVZEnSXEsBE4,erPVKXubIYDCUiFeIB~HBF5u8HkBdMUJgnfz9d8ZCUg,AQABAAE
[17:32] <rah> heh
[17:32] <rah> I'm subscribed to it
[17:34] <OctobersDark> sorry, there are many different types of boards, I should have said the "Frost board 'Announce'"
[17:34] <OctobersDark> It is just palin 'Announce' and it is read-only
[17:34] <OctobersDark> plain
[17:35] <nextgens> is it bundled on the default board set ?
[17:35] <OctobersDark> I can't remember
[17:35] * nextgens checks on frost's cvs
[17:36] <OctobersDark> toad_ seems to be the only poster
[17:36] <nextgens> I have the key too
[17:36] <nextgens> but lately he is the only one releasing new builds
[17:39] <OctobersDark> I also read the announcement by toad_ about the new Librarian-r10964.jar on that board, but i can't seem to find the file
[17:45] <OctobersDark> somebody should do something about my problem
[17:45] <OctobersDark> :-)
[17:45] <rah> nextgens: dude
[17:45] <rah> nextgens: the mailing lists page is labelled "Support" in the menu
[17:46] <rah> nextgens: give me svn access and I'll fix it
[17:46] <earthsound> when I run the update.cmd, it is sitting on "Checking for Freenet updates... New version found! Downloading new version and updating local installation..." for 40 minutes now
[17:48] <rah> earthsound: the autoupdate functionality doesn't work
[17:48] <nextgens> earthsound> do you have latest version of the script ?
[17:48] <earthsound> wget.exe:5388 TCP 130.239.18.154:http CLOSE_WAIT
[17:48] <rah> earthsound: you have to update manually
[17:48] <earthsound> rah: this isn't the autoupdate
[17:48] <nextgens> rah> it's the manual update he is trying to do
[17:48] <rah> oh sorry
[17:48] * rah bes quiet
[17:48] <earthsound> if you remember, I asked about this almost an hour ago ;)
[17:49] <earthsound> nextgens: the one I have is dated oct 13 2006
[17:49] * hopeatikari (n=hopeatik@) has joined #freenet
[17:49] <earthsound> there is also an update.new.cmd in the root folder....
[17:49] <nextgens> rah> yes, redirecting support to mailing list is what we want to do
[17:49] <nextgens> I suggest you delete both
[17:50] <nextgens> grab http://downloads.freenetproject.org/alpha/update/update.cmd
[17:50] <nextgens> and retry
[17:50] <earthsound> the update.new.cmd is dated nov 19 2006
[17:50] <hopeatikari> hi all
[17:50] <nextgens> hi hopeatikari
[17:50] <rah> nextgens: what about people looking for the tech mailing list, like I was five minutes ago?
[17:50] <rah> nextgens: or the development mailing list?
[17:51] <nextgens> http://freenetproject.org/lists.html
[17:51] <nextgens> that's there
[17:51] <nextgens> you switch to any mode different than the beginner one and you see them
[17:51] <rah> how am I supposed to find that URL?
[17:51] <nextgens> clicking on Support
[17:51] <nextgens> or Users/Developpers
[17:51] <rah> why would I click on support?
[17:51] <earthsound> nextgens: running the update.cmd again seems to have done the trick
[17:52] <rah> there is no "Users/Developers"
[17:52] <rah> to click on
[17:52] <nextgens> rah> what may I say appart from open your eyes ? :)
[17:53] <rah> nextgens: "here's your svn username and password, fix it"
[17:53] <nextgens> rtfs maybe ? :D
[17:53] <rah> you could say that
[17:53] <nextgens> on the header, on the right of the page
[17:54] <rah> this website design is drain bramaged
[17:54] <nextgens> send a patch
[17:54] <nextgens> the whole thing ought to be rewritten
[17:54] <rah> indeed
[17:54] <nextgens> but noone got around to it
[17:54] <rah> pity
[17:54] <nextgens> some had started something but never got around anything
[17:55] <rah> bummer
[17:55] <nextgens> java coders aren't CSS experts
[17:55] <nextgens> and CSS experts don't know any thing about freenet internals
[17:55] * sanity (n=ian@) has joined #freenet
[17:55] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
[17:55] <Zothar> Freenet coders aren't necessarily Java experts? :)
[17:55] * nextgens is far away from beeing a java expert
[17:55] <Zothar> same here
[17:55] <rah> sounds like there's a distinct lack of expertise in anything
[17:56] <Zothar> I'm coding in Java for Freenet because that's what it's written in
[17:56] <nextgens> rah> but if you really feel concerned by that: start something new: try to revamp the website, post your proposed design/content on @tech
[17:56] <Zothar> I don't think I have to be a Java geek to be decent a programming in general; I just may not know the best way or the most optimized way, etc.
[17:57] <Zothar> +t
[17:57] <rah> nextgens: my time is better spent with petulant IRC arguments :)
[17:57] <OctobersDark> [11:55] <rah> sounds like there's a distinct lack of expertise in anything <--- not a nice thing to say troll
[17:58] <rah> OctobersDark: sorry you're offended
[17:58] <rah> all the people are involved in freenet are lovely people
[17:58] <rah> I like bunnies
[17:58] <rah> do you?
[17:58] <OctobersDark> rah: I'll get over it :-) It was a surpizingly naughty thing to blurt
[17:59] <rah> "naughty"?
[17:59] <OctobersDark> yeah, like a child
[17:59] <OctobersDark> naughty like a petulant child
[17:59] <rah> mmm
[17:59] <Zothar> OctobersDark: how's the refbot been doing? Run it since Friday?
[18:00] <OctobersDark> yep, took 'er out for a spin again yesterday, got two more reafs, one in the channel and one /msg it went well
[18:01] <Zothar> cool
[18:03] <OctobersDark> I was trying te help get another Ubuntu user set up, but he was having trouble with the python 2.4
[18:03] <OctobersDark> he was getting some sort of error messages, I have them logged somewhere
[18:03] <OctobersDark> I noticed i have mine in python 2.3, I can't remeber why i did that though
[18:03] <OctobersDark> let me dig around here for his error log Zothar
[18:04] <Zothar> My development has been with 2.3; perhaps I should try 2.4; hmm...
[18:05] <JaboH> If you are feeling very adventurous you could try 2.5 ;)
[18:07] <OctobersDark> Zothar: he said: "SSLCrypto is dying horribly"
[18:07] <earthsound> it's been a while since I've run frost...apparently since jan 2004 :|
[18:08] <earthsound> thankfully the upgrade/conversion went smoothly :)
[18:08] <OctobersDark> he went on to day: in fcp deps:
[18:08] <OctobersDark> building 'SSLCrypto' extension
[18:08] <OctobersDark> gcc -pthread -fno-strict-aliasing -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -fPIC -I/usr/include/python2.4 -c SSLCrypto.c -o build/temp.linux-i686-2.4/SSLCrypto.o
[18:08] <OctobersDark> SSLCrypto.c:3:20: error: Python.h: No such file or directory
[18:08] <OctobersDark> SSLCrypto.c:4:26: error: structmember.h: No such file or directory
[18:09] <OctobersDark> er, to say
[18:09] <Zothar> OctobersDark: That's quite possibly out of my hands then; I'll take a quick look though
[18:09] <OctobersDark> I suggested he try python2.3, but he wasn't that interested
[18:09] <Zothar> looks like he needs an equivalent of python-2.4-dev or something
[18:09] <earthsound> what's the key for the frost-announce board?
[18:10] <earthsound> I have SSK@ub2QMcPy4jmtmqyEIML0cDdbbSTFGBgX3jEYLGoN9lg,IUYrv~GBW0~dn6k3orf9CRKUBz9CLZSA6wGrax73BCk,AQABAAE, but it's empty. apparently that's the old key(?)
[18:10] <OctobersDark> I gave him your nick and asked that he chat you up sometime
[18:13] <CIA-14> zothar * r11011 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/io/xfer/BlockTransmitter.java: indent
[18:14] <CIA-14> zothar * r11012 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/io/xfer/BlockTransmitter.java: indent 2
[18:17] * Yukishiro__ (n=zhaan@) has joined #freenet
[18:19] <CIA-14> nextgens * r11013 /trunk/apps/Thaw/src/thaw/i18n/thaw.properties: Thaw: improve the wording as suggested on frost
[18:20] * |Dr0p3d| (n=dtshells@) has joined #freenet
[18:23] * Yukishiro___ (n=zhaan@) has joined #freenet
[18:23] * |Dr0p3d| (n=dtshells@) has left #freenet
[18:25] <OctobersDark> earthsound: I have it as SSK@ub2QMcPy4jmtmqyEIML0cDdbbSTFGBgX3jEYLGoN9lg,IUYrv~GBW0~dn6k3orf9CRKUBz9CLZSA6wGrax73BCk,AQABAAE
[18:25] <OctobersDark> earthsound: but i'm not showing any posts
[18:25] <earthsound> hrm, can you tell me if there is a board that has any posts? all mine are empty
[18:25] * Yukishiro (n=zhaan@) Quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
[18:25] * Yukishiro___ is now known as Yukishiro
[18:25] <OctobersDark> for frost? sure there are
[18:26] <OctobersDark> the one just called 'frost' seems to have lots of posts
[18:27] <earthsound> I guess mine's broken somehow
[18:27] <rah> I understand there are problems with the routing algorithm that means the performance of the network is sub-optimal
[18:27] <OctobersDark> I think it is one of the default ones installed too
[18:27] <rah> what's happening about that?
[18:28] <OctobersDark> earthsound: it took a couple of days before the posts started filling in
[18:28] <nextgens> what do you mean ? "I understand there are problems with the routing algorithm" : where did you get that info. from ?
[18:28] <rah> nextgens: here?
[18:29] <earthsound> OctobersDark: ah, ok
[18:29] <OctobersDark> you can also extend out the days fetched under preferences
[18:29] <earthsound> OctobersDark: I extended it out to 15
[18:29] * nextgens looks around and doesn't see any information on how the routing algorithm performs
[18:29] <rah> nextgens: isn't there a problem with a node sending too little information?
[18:29] <rah> and hence the network performance being sub-optimal?
[18:29] <nextgens> that's a load-balancing issue : not a routing one
[18:30] <rah> erm
[18:30] <rah> ok
[18:30] <rah> so what's happening about the load-balancing issue?
[18:30] <OctobersDark> earthsound: try 30 perhaps, that will take you past the new alpha versions uploaded posts
[18:30] * Yukishiro__ (n=zhaan@) Quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
[18:30] <earthsound> OctobersDark: thanks
[18:30] <nextgens> we know that the current scheme we are using can be improved
[18:30] <nextgens> and will have to
[18:30] <OctobersDark> I think thaw had one on the 4th, and frost had one on the 7th
[18:31] <rah> ok, but what's being done?
[18:31] <rah> is anything being done?
[18:31] <nextgens> mrrogers is beeing simulating a new scheme he has been working on over the summer
[18:31] <rah> what kind of simulation?
[18:32] <nextgens> he is simulating the network
[18:32] <rah> how?
[18:32] <nextgens> using a simulator he wrote
[18:32] <OctobersDark> nextgens: how so? how many nodes? and why hasn't he written a white paper on it yet?
[18:32] <rah> and what does this simulator do, exactly?
[18:32] <nextgens> load-balancing is just about some black magic explained by Maths
[18:33] <OctobersDark> :-)
[18:33] <nextgens> I dunno, ask him
[18:33] <rah> ok
[18:33] <rah> so you don't know what's being done
[18:33] <rah> tahnks
[18:33] <nextgens> sanity has been complaining by the lack of feedback too
[18:33] <nextgens> but he has sent a progress report recently on @devl
[18:34] <nextgens> read it
[18:34] * rah looks at his -devl emails
[18:34] <nextgens> rah> I know they are simulating token passing
[18:34] <nextgens> but I fear the next question : what's token passing
[18:34] <rah> Subject: You have been unsubscribed from the Devl mailing list
[18:34] <rah> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 09:00:14 +0000
[18:35] <rah> oh :/
[18:36] <rah> when was this progress report sent?
[18:37] <earthsound> are these types of errors common in frost? "WARNING: ERROR: FcpConnection.getFcpConnectionInstance: Could not connect to node! Nov 19, 2006 12:30:26 PM frost.fcp.fcp07.FcpFactory getFcpConnectionInstance"
[18:37] <nextgens> earthsound> no: that's a blocking problem ; frost won't work
[18:37] <rah> nm
[18:38] <nextgens> earthsound> are you trying to run it from the same computer the node is running on ?
[18:38] <earthsound> since I first ran frost in 2004, today is the only time I've had this problem
[18:38] <earthsound> nextgens: yes
[18:38] <earthsound> same machine
[18:38] <nextgens> and you haven't played with FCP related parameters on the /config/ page ?
[18:40] <nextgens> bbiab
[18:41] <earthsound> SEVERE: Exception thrown in initializeConnectivity java.net.ConnectException: Could not connect to FCP node. at frost.fcp.fcp07.FcpFactory.getFcpConnectionInstance(Unknown Source at frost.fcp.FcpHandler07.getNodeInfo(Unknown Source) at frost.Core.initializeConnectivity(Unknown Source) at frost.Core.initialize(Unknown Source) at frost.Frost.<init>(Unknown Source) at frost.Frost.main(Unknown...
[18:41] <earthsound> ...Source)
[18:42] <earthsound> nextgens: no, I haven't edited anything in /config
[18:43] <earthsound> ...changing the frost.ini file to reflect the port that freenet is running on didn't help :|
[18:44] <Ralith> earthsound, have you set availableNodes=host:port?
[18:44] <earthsound> Ralith: yes, I set it to 127.0.0.1:theportfreenetuses
[18:44] <rah> earthsound: freenet uses many ports
[18:45] <earthsound> brb
[18:45] <Ralith> yay, frost is working
[18:45] <rah> earthsound: you need to tell it to use the right one, which is the fcp port
[18:48] * sanity_ (n=ian@) has joined #freenet
[18:56] <Ralith> hm
[18:56] <Ralith> my frost isn't sending any messages
[18:57] <OctobersDark> it will do that Ralith
[18:57] <OctobersDark> they will just ssit there and be sent later
[18:57] <OctobersDark> I think it might be for security
[18:58] <OctobersDark> I don't 'know' though :-)
[18:58] <OctobersDark> maybe rah knows
[18:58] <Ralith> :P
[18:58] <Ralith> so long as it's not broken I'm happy
[18:58] <Ralith> if I wanted rapid communication I wouldn't be using freenet
[19:07] * sanity (n=ian@) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[19:12] <earthsound> Ralith: should the node port in frost.ini be set to the FNP?
[19:13] * Yukishiro___ (n=zhaan@) has joined #freenet
[19:14] <Ralith> earthsound, in your config there's something that says "FCP port number"
[19:14] <Ralith> that's what you want
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[19:20] * Yukishiro (n=zhaan@) Quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
[19:44] <CIA-14> zothar * r11014 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/node/ (PeerManager.java PeerNode.java): Bug 891: Remove a peer's extra-peer-data directory when removing the peer from the node.
[19:45] * hopeatikari (n=hopeatik@) Quit ("Advanced IRC 2.0.4 - don't ask, don't tell")
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[20:18] <_ph00> can some chan op please add #freenet-de to the topic?
[20:18] <_ph00> both here and on -refs
[20:19] <_ph00> thx
[20:19] <Zothar> _ph00: nextgens might be sorta around; this'll get his attention when he sees this next :)
[20:20] <_ph00> he did that for me yesterday, I don't want to bother the same person all the time
[20:20] <_ph00> but OK
[20:21] <_ph00> he's the one who's around so...
[20:24] * hjubal (n=hjubal@) has joined #freenet
[20:25] <hjubal> hi
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[21:10] * dermoth (n=dermoth@) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
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[21:21] * Yukishiro (n=zhaan@) Quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
[21:27] * sbc (n=sbc@) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
[21:32] <rah> there is a problem with freenet's memory usage
[21:32] <Zothar> probably
[21:34] <rah> it doesn't seem to be obeying the -Xmx option
[21:34] <rah> it doesn't use multiple processes does it?
[21:35] <rah> each getting their own N bytes of memory specified by -Xmx?
[21:37] * IMCensored1_ (n=KMIntern@) has joined #freenet
[21:38] <Zothar> It obeys it as far as we know; not obeying it would be Java's fault; AFAIK, there is one VM with multiple threads, so it should all be one memory space
[21:38] * rah kicks java
[21:38] <rah> *cough*C++*
[21:39] <Zothar> I don't recall what Xmx is specifically, but it doesn't cover 100% of the memory usage, just the heap or some such
[21:43] <rah> -Xmxn
[21:43] <rah> Specify the maximum size, in bytes, of the memory allocation pool.
[21:46] * Kerowyn (n=cccschne@) has joined #freenet
[21:53] * IMCensored1 (n=KMIntern@) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[21:53] <rah> even using -XX:MaxDirectMemorySize it's stealing more than it should
[21:53] <rah> this is fubar
[22:02] <Kerowyn> hi there how to work frost?
[22:04] <sleon> Kerowyn: you mean how to useit?
[22:07] <Kerowyn> I don't know how to use it or start it
[22:09] <Kerowyn> have the software installed with freenet
[22:12] <Zothar> run frost.bat/frost.sh from the frost directory in the directory where Freenet was installed (there may be a Start menu entry, but I haven't used Freenet with Windows in a long while)
[22:12] <Zothar> (I don't think it's added on Linux, but might be)
[22:14] <rah> there's no installer for linux, so it couldn't add a menu item
[22:15] <rah> unless it added it on the first run
[22:16] <Zothar> there is an installer for unix, just not for headless IIRC
[22:17] <rah> for frost?
[22:17] <Ralith> yeah, the installer's written in java
[22:17] <Ralith> worked great for me
[22:17] <Ralith> oh, not for frost :P
[22:18] <Ralith> it's easy to add a gnome menu entry
[22:18] <Ralith> just create a launcher
[22:18] <Ralith> to run the script
[22:18] <Ralith> and add a 'cd /path/to/frost/dir' command in the script
[22:18] <Ralith> before the java command
[22:18] <nextgens> the freenet installer does it
[22:18] <rah> I've been running linux for about 8 years
[22:18] <CIA-14> zothar * r11015 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/ (clients/http/DarknetConnectionsToadlet.java node/Node.java): Add network port list to bottom of /darknet/ page, hopefully making explaining some things to newbies a little easier (and possibly avoiding the need for them to enable advanced Darknet mode).
[22:18] <rah> don't tell your grandmother how to suck eggs :)
[22:20] <nextgens> + if(fproxyConfig.getBoolean("enabled", false)) {
[22:20] <nextgens> + portInfoList.addChild("li", "FProxy:\u00a0" + fproxyConfig.getInt("port") ++"/tcp\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0(this web interface)");
[22:20] <Ralith> rah, then don't complain about lacking a menu entry :P
[22:20] <nextgens> + } else {
[22:20] <nextgens> + portInfoList.addChild("li",
[22:20] <nextgens> +"FProxy:\u00a0disabled/tcp\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0(this web interface)");
[22:20] <nextgens> + }
[22:20] <nextgens> lol
[22:21] <rah> Ralith: I didn't complain
[22:21] <nextgens> Zothar> what's the purpose of displaying that fproxy is disabled on the welcome toadlet ? :)
[22:21] * freenut (n=freenut@) has joined #freenet
[22:21] <rah> Ralith: I simply pointed out that there would be no menu entry without an installer
[22:21] <Zothar> completeness :) (I thought of that too)
[22:21] <nextgens> rah> there is an installer
[22:21] <Ralith> :P
[22:21] <rah> nextgens: there's an installer for freenet, which will install frost
[22:22] <rah> nextgens: but there's no installer for frost alone
[22:22] <Ralith> to be fair, the installer does NOT make a frost launcher
[22:22] <nextgens> and create a shortcut for it
[22:22] <nextgens> it does
[22:22] <Zothar> rah: FYI, nextgens is a big part of the Freenet installer
[22:22] <rah> Zothar: I know
[22:22] <rah> Zothar: I've pointed out some problems to him
[22:23] <Ralith> nextgens, not on a gnome/ubuntu system.
[22:23] <nextgens> it ought to
[22:23] <nextgens> let me check
[22:23] <Ralith> all it did was start freenet and create a link to fproxy and the freenet website
[22:23] <Ralith> on the desktop
[22:23] <Ralith> no freenet start/stop launcher, no frost launcher, etc.
[22:23] <nextgens> hmm
[22:23] <Ralith> it /functions/ wonderfully, it's just not automatic :P
[22:24] <nextgens> indeed we are creating only 3 icons
[22:24] * Ralith only sees 2.
[22:24] <Ralith> oh, and a thought, if you're interested:
[22:24] <nextgens> uninstall / gotofproxy / gotowebsite
[22:24] <Ralith> never saw an uninstall one.
[22:24] <Ralith> anyway:
[22:24] <Zothar> nextgens: BTW, the fix in r11009 for unclaimed may affect performance enough to consider releasing 999 soon; I don't know how happy toad is with the updater changes, etc. though
[22:24] <nextgens> the linux unistallation works
[22:25] <nextgens> +n
[22:25] <Ralith> might want to give the installer the option to, given the root password, install system-wide in /usr/local/<bin && lib && etc>
[22:25] <Ralith> yeah, the linux install works, but it doesn't set up any more than those two launchers.
[22:25] <nextgens> Zothar> I haven't reviewed your changes carefully enough to proceed
[22:25] <Zothar> heh
[22:25] <nextgens> :)
[22:26] <Zothar> nextgens: do you know what toad_ had in mind with https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=900 any comments on my comment there?
[22:26] * nextgens thinks that it would be nice if we had StS before 1000
[22:27] <Zothar> how soon do you think we'll have StS?
[22:27] <nextgens> it's much more than just removing peers :
[22:28] <nextgens> we are calculating RTTs from that
[22:28] <Zothar> hmm, so he's saying we can get RTTs elsewhere, but aren't yet?
[22:28] <nextgens> yes
[22:28] <Zothar> ah
[22:29] <nextgens> anyway, that's gonna be revamped soon
[22:29] <nextgens> when load-balancing will be based on token passing
[22:29] <Zothar> I wonder if there might be any merit to per-peer _unclaimed FIFOs since in my memory, quite a few of the dropped messages are associated with a peer, though we don't need to be trolling through everything for all peers
[22:29] <nextgens> we might still need a RTT
[22:30] <Zothar> s/though/thus/
[22:30] <nextgens> unclaimedFIFOSize: 176
[22:30] <nextgens> I've restarted my node only a few mins ago :/
[22:30] <nextgens> hmm
[22:30] <nextgens> we probably have a problem there
[22:30] <Zothar> # nodeUptime: 14m47s
[22:30] <Zothar> # unclaimedFIFOSize: 2527
[22:31] <Zothar> # nodeUptime: 6h8m
[22:31] <Zothar> # unclaimedFIFOSize: 8492
[22:31] <Zothar> I think we do; I was getting a lot of drops when I was testing with 5m instead of 1h
[22:31] <nextgens> are your nodes running the "pruning 1h old" version ?
[22:31] <Zothar> the first is; I don't remember about the second, but I don't think so
[22:31] * Zothar checks
[22:32] <Zothar> nope on the second
[22:32] <nextgens> [22:27] < Zothar> | how soon do you think we'll have StS?
[22:32] <nextgens> when I manage to find time to finish it
[22:33] <Zothar> :
[22:33] <Zothar> )
[22:33] <nextgens> but I got a huge todo atm
[22:33] <Zothar> well, then perhaps it won't make it in before 1000... :(
[22:33] <nextgens> and "urgent" things keep on going over it
[22:33] <nextgens> indeed :'(
[22:34] <rah> this memory issue may mean I can't run freenet :/
[22:34] <nextgens> btw, toad and mrrogers were speaking about revamping the low level stuffs
[22:34] <nextgens> maybe I should wait for their rewrite before doing anything
[22:34] <nextgens> we do have issues with our current "packet" authentication
[22:35] <nextgens> (like the oversized auth packets -above MTU-)
[22:35] <Zothar> perhaps a wait would be good if there's going to be implementable output from them soon
[22:35] <nextgens> rah> wich memory issue
[22:35] <nextgens> ?
[22:35] <rah> nextgens: see above
[22:35] * nextgens reads
[22:36] <rah> [21:34] <rah> it doesn't seem to be obeying the -Xmx option
[22:36] <Zothar> if we implement our own fragmentation in that, then I won't have to for binary blobs (as I understand it, it would need it)
[22:36] <nextgens> _ph00> are those channels populated enough ? /me doubt so
[22:37] <nextgens> rah> how is that a freenet problem ?
[22:37] <nextgens> you're passing that argument to the jvm
[22:37] <_ph00> not much, actually, but they do have at least one person on line all the time
[22:37] <nextgens> rah> at worst it's a jvm problem ... and it's more likely you don't know how to use the wrapper :)
[22:37] <rah> nextgens: the issue is the disregard for the option, not who's doing it
[22:38] <rah> nextgens: and I take offense to your assumption that I don't know how to use the wrapper
[22:38] <Ralith> rah, talk to whoever writes your jvm
[22:38] <rah> Ralith: can't be assed to do that
[22:38] <_ph00> we have a bunch of volonteers willing to give advice in local languages when needed. I see that -de -it -se -es are up in that sense. Of course it will take some time beofre people realize that they can use them, but keeping them open is alreasy a first step
[22:39] <nextgens> take offence if you want ... WorksForMe(TM) and for many other people
[22:39] <Ralith> rah, then stop complaining.
[22:39] <rah> Ralith: dude
[22:39] <rah> Ralith: you said that before
[22:39] <rah> Ralith: what complaint are you talking about?
[22:39] <rah> Ralith: I haven't made any complaint
[22:39] <Ralith> ohnoes, repetition!
[22:40] <rah> the repetition isn't the problem
[22:41] * nextgens changes topic to 'http://freenetproject.org/download.html (990 - mandatory), please read that page before asking questions here. For help, ask here, if you would like to exchange references, please join #freenet-refs. FAQ: http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FrequentlyAskedQuestions | logs: http://emu.freenetproject.org/irc/ | Tor blocked due to spam: get a tor/regular cloak or get an op to voice you | try also #freenet-fr #freenet-se #freenet-es #freenet-it #freenet-'
[22:41] <_ph00> (sorry for the lousy typing/spelling)
[22:41] * nextgens changes topic to 'http://freenetproject.org/download.html (990 - mandatory), please read that page before asking questions here. For help, ask here, if you would like to exchange references, please join #freenet-refs. FAQ: http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FrequentlyAskedQuestions | logs: http://emu.freenetproject.org/irc/ | Tor blocked due to spam: get a tor/regular cloak or get an op to voice you| try also #freenet-fr #freenet-se #freenet-es #freenet-it #freenet-de'
[22:41] <_ph00> thx nextgens
[22:41] <nextgens> no way I can add anything anymore ;)
[22:43] <rah> Ralith: hello?
[22:43] <rah> Ralith: what did you think was a complaint?
[22:46] <_ph00> nextgens OK, I know that the topic space is limited and some things have to be said. When we 'll have more freenet-<language> channels we 'll try to figure out how to tell people that they can use them
[22:46] <_ph00> btw, the french channel has been active for a long time even without being in the topic
[22:47] <_ph00> I think that simpy keeing those channel up will increase their usage
[22:47] <_ph00> that, and telling ppl to join them when they ask for a particular language
[22:49] * rah watches freenet's memory usage creep up in top
[22:51] * Zothar blinks
[22:52] <rah> :/
[22:52] <rah> java -Dnetworkaddress.cache.ttl=0 -Dnetworkaddress.cache.negative.ttl=0 -XX:MaxDirectMemorySize=64m -Xms128m -Xmx128m -Djava.library.path=lib -classpath freenet.jar:freenet-ext.jar -Dwrapper.key=yvGxMtuwgrKGxA3v -Dwrapper.port=32000 -Dwrapper.jvm.port.min=31000 -Dwrapper.jvm.port.max=31999 -Dwrapper.pid=1915 -Dwrapper.version=3.2.1 -Dwrapper.native_library=wrapper -Dwrapper.ignore_signals=TRUE -Dwrapper.service=TRUE -Dwrapper.cpu.timeout=
[22:52] <rah> 10 -Dwrapper.jvmid=1 freenet.node.NodeStarter freenet.ini
[22:52] * MikeW (i=Mike@) has joined #freenet
[22:53] <rah> it's at 145 and rising :/
[22:58] <rah> past 196
[22:58] <rah> sorry, no more freenet node :/
[22:59] <rah> that's with the latest jvm
[23:02] <nextgens> what does the statistic page say ?
[23:02] <nextgens> +s
[23:02] <rah> # Used Java memory: 93.0 MiB
[23:02] <rah> # Allocated Java memory: 127 MiB
[23:02] <rah> # Maximum Java memory: 127 MiB
[23:02] <rah> heh
[23:03] <nextgens> ok, so what's the problem ?
[23:03] <rah> PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S PU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
[23:03] <rah> 2930 rah 15 0 1328 1328 832 R 31.9 0.3 4:17.95 top
[23:03] <rah> 3011 freenet 18 15 218m 218m 11m S 4.4 43.4 0:20.30 java
[23:03] <rah> 218m
[23:03] <nextgens> of virtual memory
[23:03] <nextgens> ;)
[23:03] <rah> yes, that's the problem
[23:04] <nextgens> no the important thing is RSS
[23:04] <nextgens> the real-memory usage
[23:04] <nextgens> # Used Java memory: 32.9 MiB
[23:04] <nextgens> # Allocated Java memory: 59.6 MiB
[23:04] <nextgens> my node runs in even less memory
[23:06] <_ph00> so little?
[23:06] <nextgens> yup
[23:06] <rah> the RES column is apparently the same as RSS
[23:06] <nextgens> 4062 nextgens 15 0 164m 50m 15m S 0.0 20.0 3:54.53 firefox-bin
[23:06] <_ph00> # Used Java memory: 246 MiB
[23:06] <rah> which is.. 218m
[23:06] <_ph00> # Allocated Java memory: 268 MiB
[23:06] <rah> freenet 1918 0.0 46.4 1029336 239188 ? SN 22:47 0:00 \_ java -Dnetworkaddress.cache.ttl=0 -Dnetworkaddress.cache.negative.ttl=0 -XX:MaxDirectMemorySize=64m -Xms128m
[23:07] <nextgens> firefox has allocated 50M of memory and it uses 15M
[23:07] <rah> rah@teasel:~$ echo "239188 / 1024" | bc
[23:07] <rah> 233
[23:07] <nextgens> what command have you issued ?
[23:07] <rah> nextgens: not according to my top
[23:07] <rah> that third statistic is the amount of shared memory
[23:07] <nextgens> do 'M' in top
[23:08] <rah> that output is ps axfu
[23:08] <rah> not the large RSS column
[23:08] <rah> much larger than 128m
[23:08] <rah> s/not/note/
[23:08] <rah> 1919 freenet 17 15 241m 241m 11m S 0.2 48.1 0:01.98 java
[23:09] <rah> that's from top's M mode
[23:09] <nextgens> ok, so your node uses 11M of ram
[23:09] <rah> erm
[23:09] <nextgens> and your jvm has allocated 250M
[23:09] <rah> no, that's 11m of shared memory
[23:09] <rah> not ram
[23:09] <rah> t: SHR -- Shared Mem size (kb)
[23:09] <rah>