Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
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[0:00] * Topic is 'http://freenetproject.org/download.html (990 - mandatory), please read that page before asking questions here. For help, ask here, if you would like to exchange references, please join #freenet-refs. FAQ: http://wiki.freenetproject.org/FrequentlyAskedQuestions | logs: http://emu.freenetproject.org/irc/ | Tor blocked due to spam: get a tor/regular cloak or get an op to voice you'
[0:00] * Set by nextgens on Mon Oct 09 13:24:41 UTC 2006
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[0:02] [freenode-connect VERSION]
[0:18] <sleon> hi all
[0:18] <sleon> small flood coming :)
[0:18] <sleon> * bwlimitDelayTime: 0ms
[0:18] <sleon> * nodeAveragePingTime: 329ms
[0:18] <sleon> * networkSizeEstimateSession: 1642 nodes
[0:18] <sleon> * networkSizeEstimate24h: 453 nodes
[0:18] <sleon> * networkSizeEstimate48h: 547 nodes
[0:18] <sleon> * avrConnPeersPerNode: 7.143357 peers
[0:18] <sleon> * nodeUptime: 3w3d
[0:18] <sleon> * missRoutingDistance: 0.0266
[0:18] <sleon> * backedoffPercent: 31.3%
[0:18] <sleon> * pInstantReject: 0.0%
[0:18] <sleon> * Total Output: 8.58 GiB (4.33 KiBps)
[0:18] <sleon> * Payload Output: 5.76 GiB (2.91 KiBps) (67%)
[0:18] <sleon> * Total Input: 8.43 GiB (4.25 KiBps)
[0:18] <sleon> * Output Rate: 2.14 KiBps
[0:18] <sleon> * Input Rate: 5.77 KiBps
[0:19] <sleon> * Cached keys: 108,367 (3.30 GiB)
[0:19] <sleon> * Stored keys: 33,430 (1.02 GiB)
[0:19] <sleon> * Overall size: 141,797/122,755 (4.32 GiB/3.74 GiB)
[0:19] <sleon> * Cache hits: 41,118 / 1,037,182 (3%)
[0:19] <sleon> * Store hits: 6,886 / 880,913 (0%)
[0:19] <sleon> * Avg. access rate: 0/s
[0:20] <sleon> * Used Java memory: 195 MiB
[0:20] <sleon> * Allocated Java memory: 317 MiB
[0:20] <sleon> * Maximum Java memory: 446 MiB
[0:20] <sleon> * Available CPUs: 1
[0:20] <sleon> * Running threads: 138
[0:20] <sleon> :)
[0:20] <sleon> so thats it
[0:21] <P4C0> what is fcp?
[0:23] <sleon> freenet client protocol
[0:24] <OctobersDark> "nodeUptime: 3w3d" so you have not updated?
[0:25] [freenode-connect VERSION]
[0:26] <toad_> TheSeeker: can you file a bug?
[0:26] <TheSeeker> toad_: I don't like filing bugs for things I can't reliably reproduce :
[0:27] <TheSeeker> :/ even
[0:28] <P4C0> :)
[0:28] <TheSeeker> I'll note, though, that so far 3 of the downloads have started finally, after reaching over 200% of the needed blocks to decode the manifest (wtF?)
[0:29] <P4C0> how can I fix this: http://rafb.net/paste/results/PQYj5n60.html
[0:30] <toad_> TheSeeker: so you can't reliably reproduce it?
[0:30] <toad_> TheSeeker: what makes it go away?
[0:31] <toad_> TheSeeker: s/started/completed?
[0:31] <toad_> P4C0: your best option may be to reinstall from scratch
[0:31] <P4C0> toad_, I just did that!!!!!!
[0:31] <P4C0> this is fresh new install!
[0:32] <toad_> that's impossible
[0:32] <toad_> you deleted all the old files?
[0:36] <P4C0> toad_, new directory...
[0:36] <toad_> very strange
[0:36] <toad_> post to support@freenetproject.org
[0:37] <P4C0> toad_, ok...
[0:37] <P4C0> toad_, is there a way to fix this?
[0:37] <toad_> it shouldn't happen
[0:37] <toad_> are you quite sure you're running the _new_ copy?
[0:37] <toad_> it indicates that some old files are still there somehow
[0:38] <toad_> good night
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[0:40] <TheSeeker> toad: by 'started' I mean 'manifest has been decoded and download of actual file blocks has started'
[0:43] <P4C0> can someone explain me how the autoupdate works?
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[1:35] <P4C0> I know there was a doc that explains how to tunne your mozilla browser (or similar) to enjoy freenet better... I can't find it now... does anyone have it?
[1:45] <OctobersDark> P4C0: you mean this? http://www.freenethelp.org/html/SpeedingUpFreenet.html
[1:45] <P4C0> OctobersDark, yes! thank you!
[1:46] <OctobersDark> OctobersDark is always losing links :-)
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[2:22] <white> hello, how do I connect to freenet?
[2:25] <OctobersDark> what part are you having trouble with white
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[2:37] <somethignelse> what's with ubernode shutting down?
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[2:50] <obiwankenobi> how do i exchange node references?
[2:52] <somethignelse> obiwankenobi: read the subject
[2:52] <somethignelse> er... topic
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[3:55] <slinky> anyone use an alpha? just bought one for $40 :) looks like if I want a recent java I have to run openvms :) http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/archive/ds20e/index.html
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[9:01] <WildZeck> hi all
[9:01] <WildZeck> Could not open datastore
[9:01] <WildZeck> does this error steap to anyone please ?
[9:02] <WildZeck> launching freenet i've got this message inthe log et freenet did'nt start.
[9:07] <TheSeeker> sorry, I don't know ... but it's 2 AM here, not he most active time of day in this channel
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[9:20] <zoom> please anybody comm to ref's
[9:21] <WildZeck> TheSeeker, ok :) it' 10h20 AM here :)
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[9:32] <minusvirus> hi everyone
[9:32] <minusvirus> i m new to freenet
[9:34] <_ph00> ...and...
[9:35] <_ph00> problems?
[9:35] <_ph00> questions?
[9:35] <minusvirus> not for the moment , just say hello to community
[9:35] <_ph00> ah OK
[9:35] <_ph00> noce
[9:35] <_ph00> hey
[9:36] <_ph00> nice
[9:36] <minusvirus> i m going to manage my node and learn freenet :)
[9:36] <_ph00> not "noce"
[9:36] <_ph00> k
[9:36] <minusvirus> http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/hackingdemocracy/index.html
[9:36] <_ph00> you already have it up & running?
[9:36] <minusvirus> not again :)
[9:37] <_ph00> what's that? spam?
[9:38] <_ph00> oh *that*...
[9:39] <_ph00> well, people should know... The problem is that those who read this stuff on the interne, basically know already. Ho to reach six-pack joe, is the problem
[9:39] <_ph00> w
[9:40] <_ph00> OK, goota go now, bbl
[9:40] <_ph00> tt
[9:55] <_ph00> well, OK, I shouldn't do this... so I won't. Not here, anyway.
[9:55] <_ph00> but
[9:56] <_ph00> I found the BitTorrent download of that documentary "Hacking Democracy". I don't know how legal (or illegal) that is, s I won't post a link
[9:57] <_ph00> but I can say, it's on a big swedish bittorrent site
[9:57] <_ph00> the bay of...
[9:57] <_ph00> search for 'hacking democracy', you should find it
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[9:58] <_ph00> got to *really* go now
[10:06] <minusvirus> i saw a little from this documentary, it s really important to see it
[10:07] <_ph00> don't think that's a problem of the USA alone, computer count votes in many countries
[10:07] <_ph00> too late
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[10:37] <zoom> What I can chcange my web page?
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[11:25] <zoom> What I can chcange my web page?
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[11:32] <zoom> Hello, What I can chcange my web page? I put it on freenet, but what I can change my web page (similar to "Indicia (Lots of freesites - web sites hosted on freenet)")
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[11:45] <TheSeeker> try using jsite
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[13:23] <CIA-14> mrogers * r10833 /trunk/apps/load-balancing-sims/phase7/sim/Peer.java: Forgot to remove debugging code
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[15:06] <xenfasa> hello
[15:11] <OctobersDark> hallo
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[15:36] <fridim> what kind of bdd does freenet use ?
[15:38] <fridim> bdd -> database
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[15:55] <TheSeeker> berkley db
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[16:47] <fasta> toad_: ping
[16:48] <rebo123> pong
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[17:32] <Griffon26> _ph00: I am now
[17:32] <fasta> Is it possible in any way for two people behind a NAT to connect to eachother?
[17:32] <fasta> In Freenet it currently isn't.
[17:32] <fasta> (That's not my question)
[17:32] <Griffon26> fasta: without port forwarding, it's quite impossible to initiate a connection
[17:33] <fasta> Griffon26: both parties are forwarding ports
[17:33] <fasta> Griffon26: I would think it should work then
[17:33] <Griffon26> fasta: ok, then it's as good as no NAT at all
[17:33] <Zothar_Work> behind the same NAT or behind a different NAT? In theory, UDP hole punching can be used on some NAT/Firewalls, but some NAT/firewalls are too restrictive
[17:33] <Griffon26> fasta: it depends a bit on the protocol if it will work of course
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[17:34] <Zothar_Work> forwarding UDP for the port?
[17:34] <fasta> Zothar_Work: you mean a different network?
[17:34] <fasta> Zothar_Work: yes, and TCP
[17:34] <Zothar_Work> if both UDP and TCP, then, yeah, NAT shouldn't be the problem.
[17:34] <fasta> It could also be that my peers don't have a clue.
[17:34] <Griffon26> fasta: you have no control over the box doing NAT?
[17:35] <fasta> Griffon26: it's my router, but it's not really a box
[17:35] <Griffon26> mmkay
[17:35] <fasta> Griffon26: it's a thing where I only have web access to.
[17:35] <Zothar_Work> and yes, one end is on network A behind a NAT and the other end is on network B behind a different NAT
[17:36] <fasta> Zothar_Work: well, I don't see anybody else running around in this building, so I hope he's on another network :D
[17:36] <Zothar_Work> heh; comparing your and their IP address should generally tell you if they're on a different network or not
[17:36] <Griffon26> fasta: there are ways to check if port forwarding is working correctly on your end
[17:37] <fasta> Griffon26: tell me one
[17:37] <Griffon26> fasta: do you have access to a box on the internet?
[17:37] <fasta> Griffon26: yes
[17:38] <Griffon26> then use that to send packets to the port that should be forwarded and use a packet sniffer on your local machine to see if they arrive
[17:38] <fasta> Griffon26: ok, how does that first line work in practice?
[17:38] <fasta> Griffon26: I feel little need to install Freenet on that machine.
[17:39] <Griffon26> what OS?
[17:39] <fasta> Griffon26: CentOS
[17:39] <Griffon26> got root?
[17:39] <Griffon26> (always wanted to say that)
[17:41] <fasta> Griffon26: nah
[17:41] <Zothar_Work> root is needed on the sniffing machine, but not the sending machine unless you want the source port to be special
[17:41] <Zothar_Work> (and at or below 1024)
[17:41] <fasta> Zothar_Work: I know how to sniff
[17:41] <Griffon26> that's right
[17:41] <Griffon26> use nmap to send the packet
[17:41] <fasta> I will try it now, so I can get advice from you when necessary
[17:42] <Zothar_Work> fasta: in that case, tcpdump, etc. on one machine should tell you what packets are going where, so you can tell if a node is sending to and/or hearing it's peer
[17:43] <Griffon26> hmm... how do you send udp with nmap without root
[17:43] <Griffon26> maybe hping can do it if nmap can't
[17:44] <fasta> Hmm, I need to find a machine name first on the network. My favorite machine is not available currently.
[17:45] <Zothar_Work> Griffon26: root isn't needed for UDP from nmap unless you want to do something weird or nmap is adding it's own layer of permissions on some "unfriendly" stuff
[17:45] <fasta> I wished I could show a list of all the hosts on a network...
[17:45] <Griffon26> Zothar_Work: what option should one use if not -PU
[17:46] * Zothar_Work looks at nmap for a quick refresher as he hasn't used it in awhile (not a network admin anymore, not counting home LAN)
[17:47] <Griffon26> -PU and -sU both require root
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[17:48] <Griffon26> fasta: I can send you a packet if you want
[17:48] <fasta> Griffon26: ok, fine.
[17:48] <fasta> Griffon26: wait before I started wireshark
[17:49] * Griffon26 is figuring out the cmdline =P
[17:49] <Zothar_Work> Griffon26: there's always netcat for sending UDP packets that you don't care about the contents of...
[17:50] <fasta> Griffon26: Standing bye
[17:50] <Griffon26> oh right
[17:50] <Griffon26> fasta: ok, what port?
[17:50] <Griffon26> and host?
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[17:52] <Zero3Cool> *blink*
[17:52] <Zothar_Work> *darkness*
[17:52] <Zero3Cool> Hello :).. Anything happening at these fronts?
[17:55] <Zothar_Work> node ref/stats got exposed via FCP recently
[17:55] <Zero3Cool> exploit on darknet?
[17:56] <Zothar_Work> expand your question a little :)
[17:56] <Zero3Cool> i was trying to understand what you was saying :o
[17:56] <Zothar_Work> the node's ref and stats about the node are accessible via FCP
[17:56] <Zero3Cool> ahh now i get you
[17:56] <Zothar_Work> per-peer stats and refs have been accessible via FCP for some time
[17:57] <Zero3Cool> FCP...
[17:57] <Zero3Cool> thats the web server?
[17:57] <Zero3Cool> (sorry, need to refresh my memory, been off freenet too long now :()
[17:58] <Zothar_Work> FProxy is the web based protocol; TMCI is the Terminal Mode Client Interface (usually used via telnet); and FCP is a protocol used by clients such as Thaw and Frost to talk with the node in a detailed, efficient manner.
[17:58] <Zero3Cool> i see
[17:58] <Zothar_Work> (TMCI is likely to become deprecated at some point)
[17:59] <Zero3Cool> i figure..
[17:59] <Zero3Cool> make a command line client using FCP instead i guess?
[18:00] <MineHaunter> you can use netcat to use fcp from the commandline :P
[18:00] <Zothar_Work> pyfcp, and possibly others, provide that functionality, yes
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[18:00] <Zero3Cool> :)
[18:00] <Zothar_Work> MineHaunter: if you like typing FCP :)
[18:00] <Zero3Cool> so what about testnet.. I see freeviz is messed up as always? :P
[18:00] <Zothar_Work> but then people do the same for SMTP, etc....
[18:01] <Zothar_Work> freeviz was shutdown last I knew; I don't think testnet is doing much these days
[18:01] <Zero3Cool> oops
[18:01] <Zero3Cool> thats.. bad i assume? Or?
[18:01] <Zero3Cool> ...does it actually mean we are into stable production? ;)
[18:02] <Zothar_Work> it'll probably be used for testing the upcoming load limitiing/ load balancing changes though
[18:02] <Zothar_Work> no, have quite a ways to go for that; opennet hasn't happened yet for example
[18:02] <Zero3Cool> im waiting for that too
[18:03] <Zothar_Work> it'll make being a Freenet 0.7 newbie easier, but I don't plan to use it much, if any
[18:03] <Zero3Cool> i dont expect a clear answer, but i will ask anyway, just to be kind (:)), do you need anything? Hosting of a node with remote access or something...? Fixings for the installer or something else?
[18:04] * whiterabbit (n=whiterab@) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[18:04] <Zero3Cool> i probably would.. I mostly use freenet for curiousity, seeing whats on there, most of the stuff is very interesting :)... And then i of course support the idea :)
[18:04] <Zothar_Work> for remote access to a node, ask toad_, the lead developer; for something to work on, there's lot of stuff in the bug tracker at https://bugs.freenetproject.org/ :)
[18:05] * MikeW (i=Mike@) Quit ()
[18:05] <Zero3Cool> i did.. back then.. set it all up.. but he never even logged in once :(
[18:05] <Zothar_Work> he can probably get the answers he needs by talking to developers he's peering with, etc.
[18:06] <Zero3Cool> i gues
[18:06] <Zero3Cool> s
[18:06] * toad_ (n=toad@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[18:06] <Zero3Cool> problem is that most of this stuff is java related.. and me and java is a bad comination.. Too much C/C++ in my brain i guess :-/
[18:07] <Zothar_Work> I prefer Python myself, but I make do
[18:07] <Zothar_Work> used C before that and had seen enough Java to not like it much, especially after trying Python
[18:08] <Zothar_Work> never really got into perl as it's a little weird in some places for me (but that hasn't kept me from hacking on it as needed)
[18:09] <Zothar_Work> after working on Freenet code, I've gotten a little more respect for Java over Python, but only in a few small areas
[18:09] <Zero3Cool> mm i try to hack everything too, but just looking at freenet/java... Ugh.. Same for python.. I guess you need to read up on the basics before you really get it
[18:09] <Zothar_Work> ...then there's the PHP I do for work; don't like that language much, though once I can switch to PHP5, I might like it a little better
[18:09] <Zero3Cool> ohh, PHP is nice
[18:09] <Griffon26> _ph00: I assume you were looking for me because my node was offline? There was a power failure here and I hadn't put freenet in the startup scripts yet. It should be up again in a moment.
[18:10] <Zothar_Work> Python is much cleaner than PHP or perl or bash in my thinking
[18:10] <Zothar_Work> there are a few oddities in Python, but I don't see them very often as they're not used too commonly in code I want to hack on
[18:10] <Zero3Cool> i'm sticking to C++ i think..
[18:10] <Zero3Cool> << Stubborn :)
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[18:11] <Zothar_Work> I've gotten to where C/C++ are too low level for my tastes and Java is borderline
[18:11] <Zero3Cool> i really love coding.. but real-life sucks too much time for me to seriously work on anything for longer periods of time :(
[18:12] <nextgens> has toad shown up today ?
[18:13] <nextgens> he sent me a mail about the TestYourBrowser toadlet
[18:13] * nextgens would have prefered replying over irc
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[18:22] <Zothar_Work> nextgens: haven't seen him today, no
[18:24] <nextgens> does the "concurrent connection" test works for you ?
[18:24] <Zothar_Work> nextgens: his client disconnected from the channel about 20 minutes ago
[18:25] <Zothar_Work> haven't tried it; what build?
[18:25] <nextgens> dunno, after 993
[18:25] <nextgens> try /test/ on fproxy
[18:25] <Zothar_Work> "Number of connections" seems to succeed for me
[18:26] <Zothar_Work> running r10825
[18:26] <nextgens> ok, and is your browser indeed well configured ?
[18:26] <Zothar_Work> I believe it's got the limits raised, yes
[18:26] <nextgens> ok
[18:26] <Zothar_Work> lemme try a different browser that might not be
[18:26] <nextgens> cool then :)
[18:27] <Zothar_Work> hmm... safari passes...
[18:28] <nextgens> weird
[18:29] <nextgens> hmm
[18:29] <nextgens> it seems that the test doesn't wsork
[18:29] <Zothar_Work> IE 5.2 for Mac doesn't really like to load the page it seems
[18:30] <Zothar_Work> all it takes it the browser serializing the requests
[18:30] <Zothar_Work> Also, the URLs for the wontloads should probably be different
[18:30] * TheSeeker has done his damage to society ... by voting
[18:30] <Zothar_Work> ...otherwise, it's just two connections
[18:31] * Zothar_Work voted last week; I think I would have had to use an electronic voting machine today; used fill in the oval paper ballot instead
[18:32] <TheSeeker> our voting mechanism is sharpie in a line to complete an arrow pointing at "yes", "no", or the candidate's name ...
[18:32] <Zothar_Work> ah
[18:33] <Zothar_Work> I think I was probably using a sharpie as well for my nice and black ovals
[18:33] <nextgens> hmm
[18:34] <nextgens> I don't understand
[18:34] <nextgens> it was working :<
[18:34] <TheSeeker> even though we hve the longest docket in the country here in AZ, I was still out of there pretty quick. no line either, not a bad first voting experience. no hanging chads, no Dibold 'trusted to be insecure' machines. :P
[18:35] <Zothar_Work> TheSeeker: cool
[18:36] <Zothar_Work> nextgens: looks like Firefox 1.5.0.7 defaults to 24 connections per server
[18:37] <nextgens> ok, then I just need to increase the loop ? :p
[18:40] <nextgens> raah
[18:40] <nextgens> I can't start eclipse up anymore with 256M of ram
[18:42] <TheSeeker> Hmm, I don't see anything under the 'javascript' header .. but the page is 'still loading'
[18:44] <TheSeeker> hmm, network.http.pipelining.maxrequests was set to 8 .. Maybe 10 would be better? :P
[18:47] <TheSeeker> wait, is the 'green image' mentioned the checkmark?
[18:47] <Zothar_Work> TheSeeker: yeah, I believe so; also, pipelining is probably not involved
[18:49] <nextgens> TheSeeker> then that means it works
[18:49] <TheSeeker> the text could be made more clear ;p
[18:49] <nextgens> sure
[18:49] <nextgens> it was only for testing purposes ;)
[18:49] <nextgens> for now at least
[18:51] <TheSeeker> javascript enabled = warning tringle thingy, javascript dissabled = green checkmark, yey.
[18:52] <nextgens> ok, so the JS test works
[18:53] <nextgens> but toad seems to be concerned by the "number of concurrent connexions" one
[18:53] <nextgens> and the mime-automagic one has probably to be refactored too
[18:53] <TheSeeker> ...
[18:53] <TheSeeker> MIME Inline
[18:53] <TheSeeker> Your browser is probably safe.
[18:53] <nextgens> using ie ?
[18:53] <TheSeeker> Firefox
[18:54] <nextgens> ok, that's normal then :)
[18:54] * TheSeeker tries it with IE ... heeps hand on the 'nuke computer' button incase the feds show up.
[18:55] <Zothar_Work> by then, it'd be too late... :)
[18:55] * hjubal (n=hjubal@) Quit ("Leaving")
[18:55] <TheSeeker> hmm, I get a broken image 'x' in IE.
[18:56] <TheSeeker> So is IE actually observing mime types?
[18:56] <nextgens> my test might be fishy
[18:57] <nextgens> I hadn't any IE to test it :D
[18:57] <TheSeeker> If I go directly to http://127.0.0.1:8888/test/?mimetest I get a bunch of characters that doesn't look like image data...
[18:58] <TheSeeker> is it base64 or something?
[18:59] <nextgens> it's base64 encoded
[18:59] <nextgens> maybe it shouldn't be though
[19:02] <TheSeeker> The data is being sent as text/html, right?
[19:03] <TheSeeker> Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
[19:03] <TheSeeker> Pragma: no-cache
[19:03] <TheSeeker> Content-Length: 9032
[19:03] <TheSeeker> I don't think IE will decode base64 automagically.
[19:04] <Zothar_Work> It probably shouldn't be base64, yes; charset shouldn't matter for the test I'm thinking; depends on what's being tested I guess
[19:04] <TheSeeker> IE would probably decode a gif even if the server says it's text/html though :P
[19:05] <TheSeeker> nice gif btw :)
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[21:48] <_ph00> Griffon26's node has been down for 3 days? is it me?
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[22:11] <_ph00> Griffon26; OK.
[22:12] <_ph00> I don't have freenet in the startup scripts either, and after a power failure my box would stay down.
[22:13] <_ph00> Griffon26; you node has been disconnected for three days, and it still looks down from here
[22:13] <_ph00> r
[22:18] <_ph00> [bbl]
[22:18] * _ph00 (n=z@) Quit ("Leaving")
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[23:01] <overnode> hello
[23:02] <overnode> ah, no-one here, nevermind
[23:02] <overnode> bye
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[23:59] <sirius> hi
Irc logs of #freenet : 2008 2007 2006 2005
These logs were automatically created by FreenetLogBot on chat.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.