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[1:51] <tux> what makes freenet slow? would more bandwidth & disk space speed it up?
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[2:29] <toad_> tux: maybe
[2:29] <toad_> nextgens: well it didn't for at least one, probably 2 users
[2:29] <toad_> good night
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[11:01] <CIA-14> mrogers * r10749 /trunk/apps/load-balancing-sims/phase7/ (42 files in 3 dirs): Starting phase 7: traffic generators and token-passing
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[11:14] <CIA-14> mrogers * r10750 /trunk/apps/load-balancing-sims/phase7/ (46 files in 4 dirs): Putting things in packages
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[11:35] <CIA-14> mrogers * r10751 /trunk/apps/load-balancing-sims/phase7/ (73 files in 6 dirs): Putting things in packages
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[12:31] <Twister> hallo
[12:32] <Twister> connect
[12:34] <Twister> lastGoodVersion=Fred,0.7,1.0,403
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[12:35] <Twister> jemand anwesend ?
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[13:27] <_ph00> bah
[13:27] <_ph00> I switched back from slack to ubuntu again
[13:27] <nextgens> hi
[13:27] <_ph00> ububtu is good. Like debian, but working
[13:27] <_ph00> hi nextgens
[13:27] <_ph00> how's theweather in france?
[13:28] * nextgens doesn't understand why people keep on reinstalling their OS
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[13:28] <sopues_> me neither
[13:28] <sopues_> seems incredibly stupid =)
[13:28] <_ph00> me, because I keep screwiong it up
[13:28] <sopues_> I keep my installs until they die
[13:28] <nextgens> _ph00> soso ... it's not cloudy
[13:28] <sopues_> and debian hasnt died yet.. except when my unbacked-up disk dies
[13:29] <nextgens> but not sunny either
[13:29] <G61evD420> Hello, does somebody know howmany users are using freenet (estimate)
[13:29] <_ph00> I reinstall often because I do too much damage, then I can't fix it, and the easy solution is reinstalling. But I learned to install the OS's on small dedicated partitions, so the data will stay there
[13:30] <_ph00> G61evD420; I would guess something around 1000 active stable nodes
[13:30] <_ph00> and growing
[13:30] <_ph00> but that's only a wild guess
[13:30] <G61evD420> that sounds good
[13:30] <G61evD420> ->grwoing
[13:30] <_ph00> well...
[13:31] <_ph00> we'd need some 40 millions nodes before we can say that it's going really well
[13:31] <_ph00> but the point is *growing*
[13:31] <_ph00> as long as it grows, it's good
[13:31] <G61evD420> Does it make sense to raise the store size in bytes?
[13:31] <_ph00> yes
[13:32] <G61evD420> what is a good size 5G ?
[13:32] <_ph00> default is 1G
[13:32] <_ph00> I have 25G
[13:32] <_ph00> because I don't have much HDD space
[13:32] <_ph00> otherwise I'd set it to 100 or something
[13:33] <G61evD420> can i change the path to the swap file or what ever it is
[13:33] <_ph00> I mean, if you have like 500GB of hard disk, you can well give 100G to freenet
[13:33] <G61evD420> that is correct
[13:33] <_ph00> you mean the linux swap tartition?
[13:33] <_ph00> what swap file?
[13:33] <_ph00> partition*
[13:33] <G61evD420> but to fill the 100G with freenet content takes very long
[13:33] <_ph00> (not "tartition"
[13:34] <G61evD420> no i mean the freenet store size
[13:34] <_ph00> well, you set 100G as max store size, but you won't use iot all right away of course
[13:34] <_ph00> I mean, when you said "can I change the path to the swap file"
[13:34] <_ph00> what swap file did you mean?
[13:35] <G61evD420> can i set the store point to a different harddrive or partition
[13:35] <_ph00> you want to move the store
[13:35] <_ph00> ?
[13:35] <_ph00> you can move the whole freenet dir to another partition of physical drive, it will keep working
[13:36] <G61evD420> i installed freenet on a drive which have not enough free space for 25G
[13:36] <_ph00> as long as you change yor paths according to that+
[13:36] <G61evD420> ok thx
[13:36] <_ph00> no problem
[13:36] <_ph00> jus move the whole dir
[13:36] <_ph00> t
[13:36] <G61evD420> yes i will try it
[13:36] <_ph00> wait
[13:37] <_ph00> I know that it works on linux, but I never run freenet on windows
[13:37] <_ph00> I think it should work, but I never did that myself
[13:37] <_ph00> (moving the whole freenet dir, under windows)
[13:38] <_ph00> I think it should work
[13:38] <_ph00> btw, (question)
[13:39] <_ph00> is it possible to add wiondows stuff to my freenet dir and make the same node run under windows?
[13:39] <_ph00> not that I really need to do that
[13:39] <_ph00> only curious
[13:50] <G61evD420> Ok i moved the directory and changed the path variable and freenet is still working thk
[13:50] <G61evD420> thx
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[14:26] <baddbob> anyone want too hook up http://dark-code.bulix.org/hfiwij-21932?raw
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[14:33] <CIA-14> mrogers * r10752 /trunk/apps/load-balancing-sims/phase7/sim/ (Node.java Peer.java Sim.java generators/): Hangs mysteriously
[14:33] <CIA-14> mrogers * r10753 /trunk/apps/load-balancing-sims/phase7/sim/generators/SimplePublisher.java: Hangs mysteriously
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[14:44] <CIA-14> mrogers * r10754 /trunk/apps/load-balancing-sims/phase7/sim/generators/SimplePublisher.java: Wait longer before requesting keys... still hangs
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[15:14] <shadow123> Hi Folks ! I need a connection !
[15:15] <shadow123> anybody here ?
[15:17] <shadow123> mmmh !??! nobody can see me ?
[15:18] <Caco_Patane> yes
[15:18] <Caco_Patane> have you tried at #freenet-refs?
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[15:18] <baddbob> if you would like to exchange references, please join #freenet-refs
[15:19] <shadow123> okay thanks i change !:)
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[15:29] <BurningCrusader> click on the search tab and hit the binoculars
[15:29] <BurningCrusader> a file should appear that says knownboards.xml
[15:29] <BurningCrusader> try that
[15:29] <baddbob> k
[15:31] <baddbob> yes i have that 34 boards
[15:32] <BurningCrusader> then open that file and replace it with the knownboards.xml in your C:\freenet\frost\ folder. restart frost, click the globe
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[15:35] <enboodlea5> THX BurningCrusader
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[16:42] <toad_> argh
[16:42] <toad_> why is frost continually unable to upload messages? FCP is working...
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[16:54] <ossa> Great: http://www.smhi.se/weather/natvader/ntv_landvader.html?placeId=10010114080
[16:55] <CIA-14> toad * r10755 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/keys/Key.java: Fix compression size bug.
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[17:02] * nextgens has just fixed the "lurker sucks displaying 404 errors" bug
[17:03] <nextgens> toad_> any ETA on 992 ? Jflesch said to me he will release next version of thaw right after it
[17:03] <toad_> yay
[17:03] <toad_> hmmm
[17:03] <nextgens> as it will feature the 99% freeze fix
[17:03] <toad_> i was going to do binary blobs/update-over-mandatory ...
[17:03] <toad_> also there are other major bugs to fix
[17:03] * nextgens doesn't want to disturb you then ;)
[17:03] <toad_> maybe i'll put out something soon
[17:04] <toad_> without update-over-mandatory
[17:04] <toad_> but we need a mandatory in the not too distant future
[17:04] <nextgens> agreed :)
[17:05] <nextgens> do you have anything more urgent than fixing the backup system on emu to append on my todo ?
[17:05] <toad_> probably not
[17:05] <toad_> but the second item is the installer not installing an uninstaller
[17:06] <toad_> somewhere well down the list is the FEC bug
[17:06] <nextgens> have the onion guys replied about the missing parts of the source code yet ?
[17:07] <nextgens> if not, I can workaround it ...
[17:07] <toad_> not meaningfully iirc
[17:07] <nextgens> but it will work only on x86
[17:07] <nextgens> and that would involve releasing a new freenet-ext file
[17:07] <toad_> you'll have to do that anyway, no?
[17:07] <nextgens> yes
[17:08] <nextgens> but doing it once is better than doing it twice at least ;)
[17:09] <nextgens> ok, so regarding the uninstaller, we are installing it but we aren't creating shortcuts
[17:09] <nextgens> iirc that was a choice I did
[17:10] * nextgens doesn't want the uninstaller to be triggered too easily
[17:10] <nextgens> we shouldn't encourage users to do it
[17:11] <nextgens> on the other hand, they have been several reports stating that the uninstaller doesn't work
[17:11] <toad_> we should create shortcuts
[17:11] * nextgens is against creating a shortcut to the uninstaller, but agrees it should work when triggered
[17:11] <toad_> if it's not easy to uninstall freenet then freenet is spyware
[17:11] <toad_> that will hurt us long term
[17:11] <nextgens> well, there is no shortcut in the start menu
[17:12] <nextgens> but there is one in the control panel
[17:12] <nextgens> iirc
[17:12] <toad_> well then how DO you get to it?
[17:12] <Caco_Patane> it can be in "Add/Remove Programs"
[17:12] <nextgens> I dunno how it's called on english versions of windows
[17:12] <Caco_Patane> instead of a shortcut
[17:12] <toad_> well there should be an uninstaller on the start menu
[17:12] <nextgens> but yes, as Caco_Patane said
[17:12] <toad_> full stop
[17:12] * nextgens grins :p
[17:13] <toad_> badwill persists for a long time, and it spreads
[17:13] <Caco_Patane> tons of software have the Uninstaller in the same menu as the program itself
[17:13] <toad_> yeah, i've had two people (might be the same person) tell me they can't uninstall it
[17:13] <Caco_Patane> (Gimp, Psi, Python, etc)
[17:13] <toad_> because they can't find the uninstaller
[17:14] <nextgens> Caco_Patane> tons of programs are stupid, and tons of users are used to stupids programs
[17:14] <toad_> nextgens: IT MUST BE EASY TO UNINSTALL FREENET OR IT WILL BE LABELLED AS SPYWARE
[17:14] <Caco_Patane> (Subversion foobar)
[17:14] <toad_> if not by anti-viruses, then by users
[17:14] <Caco_Patane> i'm naming important opensource/gnu software
[17:15] <Caco_Patane> (vim!)
[17:15] <toad_> heh
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[17:15] <toad_> why would anyone use vim on windows?
[17:15] <nextgens> ok, I fix the backup scripts and will see what I can do
[17:15] <Caco_Patane> toad_, if the corp that you work for does not have any linux/unix machine running in the entire network..
[17:16] <toad_> Caco_Patane: hmm?
[17:16] <toad_> ah
[17:16] <nextgens> Caco_Patane> then maybe you should set one up :D
[17:16] <Caco_Patane> i have vim installed in w2k, laptop, workstation and server
[17:16] * toad_ uses vi/mutt for email, not convinced this is a good thing though
[17:16] <Caco_Patane> nextgens, they are married with microsoft
[17:17] <Caco_Patane> i proposed migration of mayor part of the servers
[17:17] <nextgens> toad_> really ? :)
[17:17] <Caco_Patane> but seems that they like a lot to pay software licences
[17:17] * nextgens is addicted to mutt
[17:17] <nextgens> and can't get used to use emacs
[17:17] <nextgens> vim is so powerfull
[17:18] <Caco_Patane> maybe the microsoft account manager prepares a good coffe
[17:18] <Caco_Patane> or at least, the one that make the decision from the corp like it a lot
[17:18] <Caco_Patane> i've never used emacs
[17:19] <Caco_Patane> started with 'mcedit' a few years ago, and then vim
[17:20] <Caco_Patane> don't know if you use windows sometimes, but typing ':wq!' every time you stop editing a file in any OTHER editor is a sign of your adiction =D
[17:28] <Caco_Patane> i have to see the FCP stuff cited on the dev list
[17:28] <Caco_Patane> http://caco.homelinux.org:9300/ch.png
[17:29] <Caco_Patane> the two peaks in the graph are some error in my script =/
[17:30] <Caco_Patane> toad_, when the Cache Hits counter reset itself?
[17:32] <Caco_Patane> --gotta go lunch--
[17:36] <slinky> Caco_Patane: try ZZ ( instead of :wq! ) :)
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[17:39] <CIA-14> nextgens * r10756 /trunk/apps/new_installer/Win_shortcutSpec.xml: new_installer: add an shortcut to the uninstaller in the program group menu
[17:40] * nextgens will switch to the new version of IzPack
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[17:41] <CIA-14> toad * r10757 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Fix bug related to compressed data being too big to fit into a block after including the length of the original data.
[17:44] <nextgens> toad_> shall we create an icon on unix too ?
[17:44] <nextgens> we are already in fact
[17:44] <nextgens> ...
[17:45] * nextgens will borrow his brother's computer to debug the "uninstaller doesn't work on w32"
[17:46] * MikeW (i=Mike@) Quit ()
[17:58] <CIA-14> toad * r10758 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/client/async/ (SplitFileFetcher.java SplitFileFetcherSegment.java): Try to track down #821.
[18:00] <toad_> nextgens: how do i paste formatted text into vim?
[18:00] <toad_> Caco_Patane: on restart
[18:01] <toad_> nextgens: does the uninstaller request confirmation from the user?
[18:01] <CIA-14> nextgens * r10759 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/node/ (NodeIPDetector.java useralerts/IPUndetectedUserAlert.java): Some untested code to improve IPUndetectedUserAlert.
[18:02] <nextgens> toad_> on *nix yes
[18:02] <nextgens> on doze, I dunno
[18:02] <toad_> on doze?
[18:02] <toad_> well could you test it please?
[18:02] <toad_> seeing as you're using a doze machine
[18:02] <nextgens> toad_> disabling the indentation :)
[18:02] * shoooongah (i=shoooong@) Quit ()
[18:03] <toad_> how do i do that?
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[18:05] * Jflesch (n=jflesch@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[18:06] <nextgens> toad_> set paste; set nopaste
[18:06] <nextgens> toad_> to toggle command mode you need ':'
[18:06] <nextgens> so that makes
[18:06] <nextgens> :set paste
[18:07] <nextgens> then you switch to insert mode
[18:07] <nextgens> i
[18:07] <nextgens> then you paste
[18:07] <toad_> ah cool
[18:08] <nextgens> http://vim.sourceforge.net/tips/tip.php?tip_id=330
[18:08] <nextgens> read the troll :)
[18:08] <nextgens> I have a :set pastetoggle=<F11> in my config
[18:08] <toad_> well the most annoying thing with my setup is that i run it in a while true; do mutt -Z || sleep 1; done loop
[18:08] * DDIII (n=1031C2E5@) has joined #freenet
[18:08] <toad_> and it can take some time for it to load up the next mailbox
[18:09] <toad_> maybe i should switch it back to mailbox format, i hear that's supposed to be faster
[18:09] <toad_> otoh i could get the mail searching thingy working that was the original reason for switching to maildir
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[18:10] * JVD5Kpqqn (n=JVD5Kpqq@) has left #freenet
[18:10] <toad_> well
[18:10] <toad_> i'm pretty sure i've fixed the Frost problem anyway
[18:11] <toad_> think it makes sense to release 992 without binary blobs
[18:12] * nextgens is afk
[18:12] <nextgens> away from irc at least
[18:12] <nextgens> heading to the windows box
[18:23] * DDIII (n=1031C2E5@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[18:30] <CIA-14> toad * r10760 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/ (2 files in 2 dirs): spelling: aviable -> available
[18:31] <CIA-14> toad * r10761 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/clients/http/WelcomeToadlet.java: will be available
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[18:45] <Zothar_Work> I think it's probably about time 992 be released once the commit reviews are completed
[18:45] * TheBishop__ (n=bishop@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[18:47] <CIA-14> nextgens * r10762 /trunk/apps/new_installer/res/windows/bin/1run.cmd: new_installer: cosmetic cleanup on w32
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[18:50] <CIA-14> toad * r10763 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/keys/Key.java: Fix "Too big" internal error when inserting full CHKs as part of splitfile healing.
[18:51] <CIA-14> toad * r10764 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/client/async/ (SimpleHealingQueue.java SingleBlockInserter.java): Don't infinitely recurse in healing if encode fails.
[18:51] <toad_> Zothar_Work: probably, though there are BigBugs being fixed/generated
[18:51] <toad_> well fairlybigbugs
[18:51] <Zothar_Work> well, identify/squash them then :) I can help again starting Thursday evening
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[19:11] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
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[19:24] <CIA-14> toad * r10765 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/keys/Key.java: Try to catch the too-big errors.
[19:25] <CIA-14> toad * r10766 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/node/fcp/ModifyConfig.java: trivial
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[19:40] <CIA-14> toad * r10767 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/keys/ClientCHKBlock.java: Another size-related bugfix.
[19:40] * toad_ hmmz
[19:41] <toad_> i really really should have seen that when i changed the constant
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[19:42] <asadag> hi
[19:42] <asadag> any ref?
[19:43] <nextgens> toad_> let me fix the thing I've commited before releasing
[19:43] <toad_> asadag: #freenet-refs
[19:43] <toad_> nextgens: ok, tell me when
[19:43] <nextgens> the useralert form is broken
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[19:44] <nextgens> doh, the spelling was my bad :$
[19:53] <nextgens> maybe we should finish FCP changes too
[19:53] <Zothar_Work> nextgens: which ones?
[19:53] <nextgens> fcp related
[19:53] <nextgens> yours :p
[19:55] <Zothar_Work> ah; the config stuff will take a little work, the node stats stuff just needs more things to be exported in the appropriate method (lots of copying from the darknet/stats code plus a little tweaking for the SimpleFieldSet output instead of HTML)
[19:56] <Zothar_Work> I personally won't be back on that until pretty much Friday or later, so I wouldn't hold everything waiting on it myself.
[20:01] * slinky (n=slinky@) Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[20:01] <toad_> i'll put out 992 anyway
[20:01] <toad_> after nextgens has sorted the useralert
[20:01] <toad_> just don't document the FCP APIs yet
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[20:01] <toad_> i'll tell people they aren't done yet
[20:02] <CIA-14> nextgens * r10768 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/node/useralerts/IPUndetectedUserAlert.java: Doh! Shame on me.
[20:02] <nextgens> toad_> I'm done
[20:02] <toad_> nextgens: is that sorted now?
[20:02] <toad_> ok
[20:03] <nextgens> make it mandatory so that probe requests will work
[20:03] <Zothar_Work> toad_: the NodeData stuff is documented (very ambiguously, like the Peer stuff) config will stay undocumented until we're happy with it
[20:03] <nextgens> time-bombed maybe, at least until update over mandatory is implemented :/
[20:04] <toad_> nextgens: or i could wait until we have update-over-mandatory and then do a mandatory
[20:07] * mrflibble (n=mrflibbl@) Quit ("shitty windows")
[20:07] <CIA-14> toad * r10769 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/node/Version.java: (log message trimmed)
[20:07] <CIA-14> 992:
[20:07] <CIA-14> - Detect URLEncoded FreenetURIs (freenet keys) and decode them.
[20:07] <CIA-14> - Show % time routable on the Darknet page.
[20:07] <CIA-14> - More/improved stats
[20:07] <CIA-14> - Export more global (GetNode message) and per-node stats via FCP
[20:07] <CIA-14> - Basic config over FCP
[20:07] <nextgens> toad_> I don't know what should be done regarding the GET for getThreadDump()
[20:07] <nextgens> ...
[20:08] <nextgens> it's not a big deal imo
[20:08] <toad_> i think it should require the formpassword
[20:08] <nextgens> if we do, it can't be triggered at all
[20:08] <toad_> and if it's not presented, it should produce a confirmation page
[20:08] <nextgens> hmm
[20:08] <toad_> that's the idea, you have to do it manually
[20:08] <toad_> if you have wget, you have kill -QUIT
[20:09] <nextgens> not on windows, that's the point
[20:09] <toad_> sure
[20:09] <toad_> on windows we get people to go to it in a web browser because they probably don't have wget
[20:09] <nextgens> ok, I'll make it to be a post with a formpassword then
[20:09] <nextgens> I'm not gonna use it anyway :)
[20:10] <toad_> a get with a form password is okay
[20:10] <toad_> post would be better perhaps, but you need something gettable which confirms it and post's
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[20:19] <CIA-14> nextgens * r10770 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/clients/http/ (StatisticsToadlet.java WelcomeToadlet.java): Secure the ?getThreadDump, switching to POST and requiering the formPassword
[20:19] <Zothar_Work> toad_: just so you're aware: changing a peer's private note auto-submits the change; I'm not quite happy with it since it's already messed me up when I hit some wrong keys once (fortunately the browser had form history for those notes I lost)
[20:20] <toad_> Zothar_Work: i thought it just checked the box?
[20:20] * nextgens isn't convinced using JS is a good idea at all
[20:20] <toad_> well no, i'm not either really
[20:21] <nextgens> since we encourage users to disable it completly, it doesn't make sense to me
[20:21] <Zothar_Work> toad_: there are two functions; one when the field loses focus that changes the select box, which works for when the note is typed followed by return and the other is when the contents are changed, which changes the select box and submits the form
[20:21] <nextgens> moreover, I think we should make a "testYourBrowser" toadlet
[20:21] <toad_> Zothar_Work: hmmm
[20:21] <toad_> nextgens: file a bug :)
[20:21] <toad_> or go implement it
[20:21] <Zothar_Work> I also don't really like having Javascript, but toad_ had said there was a usability problem with the existing, which I had been bitten by as well
[20:21] <nextgens> trying to mess up with it, and instructing the user how to configure it
[20:22] <Zothar_Work> it can be annoying both with and without the Javascript; perhaps I can make the Javascript usage configurable
[20:22] <toad_> Zothar_Work: maybe the best that can be achieved is to click on a node and type in notes on a separate page?
[20:22] <toad_> a detail page for each node
[20:22] <toad_> from where you can edit the private-note
[20:23] <Zothar_Work> toad_: my original idea was for multple notes per node with perhaps a special one for different uses, one of which might show on the peer list page, another that might be a MOTD for that peer or some such
[20:23] <Zothar_Work> edit on separate page might be a good idea
[20:24] <toad_> that would eliminate the need for javascript
[20:24] <toad_> you could also put more detailed stats on it
[20:24] <toad_> and maybe even show the queue of messages waiting to be sent to it
[20:24] <toad_> or the messages received from it even
[20:24] <toad_> err i mean N2NTMs
[20:25] <toad_> but obviously the message summary in advanced mode...
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[20:25] <Zothar_Work> that's mixing notes and N2NTMs, but yeah, I'd thought the same; I was thinking of a N2NTM page with a chronological ordered list of sent and received N2NTMs; come to think of that, being per-peer could be good
[20:26] <toad_> anyone here admit to being 70.244.45.62:51126 ?
[20:26] <toad_> Zothar_Work: well it meets with my approval
[20:27] <toad_> if you don't get around to it then file a bug for it
[20:27] <Zothar_Work> I think theres a bug for each that sorta cover these ideas; I may need to expand on them
[20:28] <toad_> ok cool
[20:28] <nextgens> mantis is f*cking silly!
[20:29] <toad_> hmm?
[20:29] <nextgens> it's not sanitysing html input!
[20:29] <toad_> ouch
[20:29] <nextgens> see https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=837
[20:29] <toad_> mucho cross site scripting...
[20:29] <nextgens> I wrote "<pre> anchors
[20:29] <toad_> even though it mangles email addresses?
[20:29] <nextgens> and see the result
[20:30] * chamil (n=chamil@) Quit ()
[20:30] <toad_> nextgens: can you include images? frames? javascript?
[20:30] <nextgens> anyway, as we are using authentication and https, we are probably secure
[20:30] <nextgens> probably
[20:30] <toad_> well yes and no, anyone can register on mantis
[20:31] <toad_> (which means in theory we probably shouldn't be posting people's email addresses on it)
[20:31] <toad_> maybe we should just make those bugs private
[20:31] <toad_> those bugs that have users' email addresses in
[20:34] <nextgens> in fact URLs are sanitysed
[20:34] <nextgens> but not anchors :/
[20:35] <nextgens> wich is probably exploitable, but less easily
[20:36] <toad_> how would it be exploitable?
[20:40] <nextgens> I haven't tested so I'm not sure ...
[20:40] <nextgens> but I bet it's doable :)
[20:49] <CIA-14> nextgens * r10771 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/clients/http/staticfiles/themes/sky/theme.css: Resolves #854: Fix the CSS of the sky theme
[20:52] * Caco_Patane (n=caco@) Quit ("BitchX: good to the last drop!")
[20:53] <nextgens> toad_> so, what are you working on atm ? general bugfixing or binary-blobs ?
[20:53] <nextgens> btw, have you inserted 992 ?
[20:54] <toad_> yes, it's inserting
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[20:55] <Zothar_Work> heh, the devs should get it quickly since they're all connected with toad... :)
[20:59] <toad_> :)
[20:59] <toad_> we shouldn't need propagation if routing works
[20:59] <toad_> it's a big if
[20:59] <toad_> although after binary blobs, the update *may* propagate as a broadcast
[21:00] <Zothar_Work> that'll be cool
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[21:15] <CIA-14> mrogers * r10772 /trunk/apps/load-balancing-sims/phase7/sim/ (Node.java Peer.java Sim.java generators/SimplePublisher.java): No longer hangs - hooray for voodoo
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[21:27] <toad_> nextgens: general bugfixing right now
[21:35] <enboodlea> Hi can somebody tell me experience about FreeMulET, how long i have to wait before i can do p2p over freenet?
[21:36] <enboodlea> Or when i want to download freemulet nothing happens its correct that i first have to wait a few days to fill my cache?
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[21:38] <Zothar_Work> if you're trying to download freemulet itself over Freenet, there's no cache, just how well connected to "the rest" of Freenet you are. As far as operation of freemulet itself, I dunno
[21:38] <enboodlea> mmmh wrong place for the questions?
[21:39] <enboodlea> ok so normaly when ich click the download link from freemulet something must happen?
[21:40] <Zothar_Work> from inside a running freemulet? dunno
[21:41] <sbc> enboodlea: There is a frost board for freemule. They might know more than we do here.
[21:42] <enboodlea> no from the darknet startpage software ... ok now i got it - the problem is it takes so long time to surf in the darknet homepages
[21:43] <Zothar_Work> how long it takes is based a lot on how well connected with "the rest" of Freenet you are; also, if you've only got mostly new nodes as peers, they might not be connected with "the rest" of Freenet very well either, so if you are, they might "help" your node get overloaded
[21:43] * greycat (i=rfc1413@) Quit ("This time the bullet cold rocked ya / A yellow ribbon instead of a swastika")
[21:43] <enboodlea> when i click somewhere it takes min 5 minutes, so my question when i am connected a few days are then the response time faster
[21:44] <toad_> what takes 5 minutes?
[21:44] <toad_> fetching a freesite?
[21:44] <toad_> how many connected peers do you have?
[21:45] <Zothar_Work> it's more of a matter of who and how many peers you have rather than how long you've been connected with them
[21:45] <enboodlea> this is my first freenet day so i have to find good nodes to be well connected with the freenet
[21:45] <enboodlea> i have 17 connected pears
[21:45] <enboodlea> peers
[21:46] <Zothar_Work> by "new peers", I meant peers that are likely to mostly be connected with other peers obtained recently from #freenet-refs and thus they're more likely to be a separate net rather than well connected with the nodes that have the content you seek
[21:47] <toad_> enboodlea: you have 17 connected peers (or backed off, not disconnected or never connected) on the darknet page?
[21:47] <toad_> enboodlea: it shouldn't take 5 minutes to fetch a page in that case
[21:47] <Zothar_Work> Freenet works on a "six degrees of separation" kind of principle, but if you've only connected with the people you just met and not some "long lost buddy", you won't be able to be only six degrees from Kevin Bacon nearly as easly
[21:48] <enboodlea> it takes long when i request a site like "All Site" ok i think freenet works like a snowball effect is that corret?
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[21:48] <toad_> enboodlea: sort of
[21:48] <toad_> enboodlea: it takes 5 minutes just to show the html (not load all the images)?
[21:48] <toad_> it will take aaaaaages to load all the images, that's to be expected
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[21:49] <toad_> because they're all from different freesites
[21:50] <enboodlea> i have 17 connected not backed off ... but smaller sides also take so long sometimes ok i know i have to wait and must fetch good avaivable nodes
[21:51] <toad_> as many nodes as possible is good, within reason
[21:51] <toad_> but 17 ought to be adequate
[21:51] <toad_> i have less than that
[21:51] <toad_> i have 16 in fact :)
[21:51] <toad_> but some of your 17 will also be newbies
[21:51] <toad_> who don't have many connections
[21:51] <Zothar_Work> ...or mostly connected only to each other
[21:51] <enboodlea> yes many newbies i think like myself :-)
[21:52] <enboodlea> "six degrees of separation" = snowball effect
[21:52] <MineHaunter> Don't know why but I am usually able to load new freesites in a minute or so
[21:53] <Zothar_Work> MineHaunter: you're probably better connected
[21:54] <toad_> enboodlea may be connected to loads of newbies and a long way away from the core of the network...
[21:54] <enboodlea> yes i have no problem - i try to get full involved in the freenet and then i think the response times will be ok
[21:54] * sbc (n=sbc@) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
[21:54] <Zothar_Work> my secondary node has a connection with him, but that node has been running a high average ping time lately and some of it is probably because one of it's peers has a quite high ping at times
[21:55] <toad_> i'm worried about fragmentation on the one hand (probable explanation), and on the other hand the tendency towards aristocracy...
[21:55] <toad_> certainly opennet would make life easier
[21:55] <toad_> :)
[21:56] <MineHaunter> yeah, aristocracy could be a problem... many old & well connected nodes won't add newbie nodes to their peer list
[21:57] <toad_> well even if they do
[21:57] <enboodlea> sounds plausible
[21:57] <toad_> you end up with a scale-free network
[21:57] <Zothar_Work> I tend to run a bot on the refs channel every now and then to help combat that problem; most of the peers added through that don't necessarily stick around, so then I go add more to bring up my total count
[21:57] <toad_> i.e. everyone is connected within a few hops to one of the hubs
[21:57] <toad_> who have bazillions of connections
[21:58] <Zothar_Work> I think the ubernodes may have all shut down, but perhaps I'm not aware of some of the other ones as perhaps they came into being more quietly...
[21:58] <toad_> Zothar_Work: any chance of investigating bug #749 a bit?
[21:59] <toad_> Zothar_Work: well, should I connect to every newbie who asks me to?
[21:59] <Zothar_Work> probably not, especially if you get a lot of connections; gone are my days of running peers in the hundreds (mostly disconnected)
[21:59] <enboodlea> ok it is possible to trade our refs i think toad and zothar will be excelent peers :-)
[22:01] <Zothar_Work> toad_: all attempts at looking into 749 have resulted in lack of reproducability; I could squash it if I could get some good feedback from both sides of an active flood situation
[22:01] <toad_> hmmm
[22:01] <Zothar_Work> ATM, I don't have any idea of what's happening
[22:01] <toad_> well you could talk to FuriousRage about that...
[22:01] <toad_> is there any data you could get about it that would help?
[22:01] <CIA-14> toad * r10773 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/client/async/ (SingleFileFetcher.java SplitFileFetcher.java): Remove unnecessary parameter.
[22:02] <Zothar_Work> that's what I was trying to say in note 1065 of that bug, the "reply" was that there's still a problem with no details
[22:02] <Zothar_Work> the biggest thing at the moment is that I've never been in contact with the operator of a "sending" node, which is where I assume the problem to be
[22:02] <toad_> hmmm
[22:03] <Zothar_Work> getting a dump of the extra data directory of a "sending" node might help combined with detailed logs
[22:03] <toad_> it's not possible for it to be on the receiving end?
[22:03] <toad_> i see...
[22:03] <toad_> oh well
[22:04] <Zothar_Work> it could be, but, like I said, no theories have panned out into a reproduction
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[23:30] * Zothar_Work (n=chatzill@) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox 1.5.0.7/2006090921]")
[23:32] * Rincewind (n=R@) has joined #freenet
[23:38] * Rincewind (n=R@) Quit ()
[23:39] * railk (n=railk@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
Irc logs of #freenet : 2008 2007 2006 2005
These logs were automatically created by FreenetLogBot on chat.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.
