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[5:55] <Dynode> Hello, a question: I run WindowsXP pro with enough diskspace and 1.5G memory. whenever 0.7 has run for about 3 hours, cpu usage slowly rises from 25% to 100 and slows down the use of whole computer despite freenet being priority: below normal, in the .conf (i'm not home so I cant check anything, but i have time to wait for a cure)
[5:56] <Dynode> doesnt matter whether I allocate 64/128 or 128/256 memory, have 10 or 20 connections
[6:00] <Dynode> my DL/UL settings are 150K/70K , well below the limits it can do (200/100 measured using ping to gate)
[6:01] <Dynode> and i'm normally only transerring 10-40K up and down
[6:17] * lokadin_ is now known as lokadin
[6:18] <anonymouse> hey Dynode,
[6:18] <anonymouse> just a thought, but do you have the latest jvm?
[6:18] <Dynode> Oh yes I do, checked that
[6:18] <anonymouse> i had some serious interrupt issues and then realized i was running several versions old jvm
[6:18] <anonymouse> the newest one was far better
[6:18] <anonymouse> oh
[6:18] <anonymouse> my ideas are now exhausted =/
[6:18] <Dynode> Ran the "Verify Installation" - on hjavas page
[6:18] <Dynode> Mine too
[6:19] <anonymouse> I used to manually restart my node when it got ornery
[6:19] <anonymouse> since updating to the _09 jvm I haven't really had to
[6:19] <Dynode> That works yes, but i wont learn the whole network that way
[6:19] <anonymouse> it does seem to take more cpu the longer it's been up
[6:19] <anonymouse> ?
[6:19] <anonymouse> I don't think bouncing a node harms the network or your connectivity to it
[6:19] <Dynode> Maybe I'm connected to problematic nodes. too many strange requests or something
[6:20] <anonymouse> sure the 'estimated' thing goes back to 0 but really it doesn't matter for anything i think
[6:20] <Dynode> I mean the estimated size of network, takes a while to get it above 300
[6:20] <anonymouse> ok but does that matter except as a "hey neat" feature?
[6:20] <Dynode> it is neat
[6:21] <Dynode> I could change priority to low unless i can think of something else
[6:21] <anonymouse> after running for a couple days my node was using most of the cpu
[6:21] <anonymouse> i bounced it
[6:21] * anonymouse shrugs
[6:21] <Dynode> it screws up watching veideo too unless i adjust video priotity to above normal
[6:21] <anonymouse> i'm just used to doing that
[6:21] <Dynode> video
[6:21] <anonymouse> that seems odd
[6:21] <anonymouse> because freenet runs at 'below normal' by default
[6:21] <anonymouse> and video should at least be 'normal'
[6:22] <Dynode> And slows down windows explorer, firefox and all, insalled 3 times and deleted registry entries ever time, wont do that anymore
[6:22] <anonymouse> having more levels of separation should not matter
[6:22] <anonymouse> how big is your store?
[6:22] <Dynode> below normal can disturb Normal prio progs
[6:22] <anonymouse> just thinking of differences
[6:22] <Dynode> only 20G
[6:22] <anonymouse> hah only
[6:22] <anonymouse> mine is 3 =)
[6:22] <Dynode> but it has 1,2 G
[6:22] <anonymouse> maybe there is the difference
[6:22] <Dynode> the problems start even with just few megs stored
[6:23] <anonymouse> well i sure don't know. I just thought I'd reach out since I know I had a somewhat similar-acting issue before
[6:23] <Dynode> I think others have the problem too but they just reboot or uninstall (which doesnt work)
[6:23] <anonymouse> I'm kind of unfazed by freenet sucking my computer's power.. Been running a node on and off since 0.4 days =)
[6:24] <anonymouse> Ultimately the best solution would be to have a dedicated box for your node imo
[6:24] <anonymouse> then kind of who cares what it does
[6:24] <anonymouse> or hey what about a virtual machine
[6:24] <anonymouse> run it in a vmware instance or similar?
[6:24] <anonymouse> I'm just thinking of ideas
[6:24] <Dynode> yep, but i'm pretty sure they'll fix the cpu usage or no one will use it
[6:24] <anonymouse> only if most people have the problem
[6:24] <Dynode> i got no strange progs
[6:24] <anonymouse> hah, i sure do
[6:25] <anonymouse> this machine hasn't been reinstalled since .. ever
[6:25] <anonymouse> got it in early 2002
[6:25] <anonymouse> talk about cruft and bloat
[6:25] <anonymouse> remarkably stable considering all i have infliced on it
[6:25] <anonymouse> inflicTed
[6:29] <anonymouse> well I hope you can discover a solution. Something tells me if most people had this issue it would long ago have been resolved. Probably something subtle
[6:30] <anonymouse> oh i was wondering? how long does it take to climb up to 100%cpu?
[6:30] <Dynode> If the networks size is 400 nodes or less, there arent all that many people, they probably run Linux anyway, nerds.
[6:30] <Dynode> I'd run it too if i had the brain
[6:30] <anonymouse> Yeah my estimate is about at 400
[6:31] <anonymouse> been up for about a day; still using only about 25-30% cpu on average
[6:31] <anonymouse> that reminds me i should go troll for new refs
[6:32] <Dynode> Nice. I might have a problem node connected trying to bring me down.
[6:32] <anonymouse> wow really?
[6:32] <anonymouse> like intentionally subversive?
[6:32] <Dynode> Who knows, just theorizing
[6:32] <anonymouse> seems unlikely at this early stage
[6:32] <Dynode> Since i publicly change refs in irc
[6:32] <anonymouse> firstly, I think they control for that
[6:33] <anonymouse> but also 0.7 is too fresh to really have that many dedicated trolls
[6:33] <anonymouse> and certainly not too many certified wackos
[6:33] <Dynode> When I get home, I will try disabling half of my nodes to see if cpu use goes down
[6:33] <Dynode> doubt it ho
[6:33] <anonymouse> who you callin ho
[6:33] <Dynode> Tho
[6:33] <anonymouse> ;)
[6:33] <Dynode> you
[6:33] <Dynode> ho
[6:33] <Dynode> nah
[6:33] <anonymouse> just making sure
[6:33] <anonymouse> HO HO HO
[6:34] <anonymouse> well you could disable ALL your connections and see if cpu goes down
[6:34] <anonymouse> if not, then you have ruled out subversion
[6:34] <Dynode> Aye. will disable half first, then the other half
[6:34] <anonymouse> ok but then you might have two baddies
[6:34] <Dynode> oo
[6:35] <anonymouse> i'm just sayin, if it's not connection-based, easy to find out
[6:35] <Dynode> ok, i will keep only 3 connections for a few meins, problem may still be that threads are already running
[6:36] <Dynode> takes 3 hours to get to 100
[6:36] <Dynode> %cpu
[6:36] <anonymouse> that's pretty short
[6:36] <Dynode> true
[6:36] <anonymouse> with that you could just bounce the node at the start of your test
[6:36] <anonymouse> to rule out long-running things
[6:37] <Dynode> Restarting the node brings cpu back to 0%
[6:37] <anonymouse> yes at immediately. but then it would build again
[6:37] <Dynode> yes
[6:37] <anonymouse> i am just thinking of ways for you to have a clean test
[6:37] <Dynode> I'll try disabling all but 5 longrunners and reboot
[6:38] <Dynode> When I get out of this school thing i'm at
[6:38] <anonymouse> see that is the problem; you just need better remote access
[6:38] * phrosty (n=phrosty@) Quit ("baseball is wrong: man with four balls cannot walk.")
[6:39] <Dynode> Yes, as my name suggests, I set up my node with DynDns so i can update my ip
[6:39] <Dynode> So i could setup remote access
[6:39] <Dynode> Not that it would work with 100% cpu use
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[6:40] <anonymouse> ooh i got a message from a peer node
[6:40] <anonymouse> so much for ph00 saying they don't work
[6:41] <anonymouse> ... at least so far no bugs
[6:41] <Dynode> It's an attack, run, panic
[6:41] <Dynode> they work for me
[6:43] <Dynode> Well, since i'm at school (i'm over 30) I better quit irc and start playing guildwars. later
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[9:13] * shdwshard is looking for darknet peers
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[9:31] <shdwshard> Anyone willing to peer?
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[12:05] * nextgens sets mode +vv LucisFerens syefes_
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[12:17] <LucisFerens> thx nextgens
[12:17] <LucisFerens> btw, why is the tor ban lifted on #freenet-refs? trolls trolled there too, IIRC
[12:19] <nextgens> it's not lifted, is it ?
[12:20] <nextgens> [12:20] --- | 1. #freenet-refs: %*!*@gateway/tor*] (set by nextgens 358664 secs ago)
[12:20] <nextgens> [12:20] --- | 2. #freenet-refs: %*!*PircBot@* (set by nextgens 358568 secs ago)
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[12:38] <LucisFerens> nextgens, I can still send to freenet-refs. something's wrong
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[12:40] <nextgens> hmm
[12:43] <LucisFerens> try setting a total ban and see if thet kicks me out
[12:43] <nextgens> LucisFerens> would you try again please ?
[12:43] <LucisFerens> no need
[12:43] <LucisFerens> I got kicked out
[12:43] * nextgens has kicked you
[12:44] <nextgens> try re-joining
[12:44] <LucisFerens> k
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[12:44] <LucisFerens> * Cannot join #freenet-refs (You are banned).
[12:44] <nextgens> ok, fine :)
[12:44] <LucisFerens> so that worked
[12:45] <nextgens> the problem was my irc client
[12:45] <LucisFerens> now, IIRC, what you actually wanted to do, was only muting tor, not banniong it comletely
[12:45] <LucisFerens> well, OK, you do as you wish... np
[12:45] <nextgens> and my missunderstanding on the difference between mute/ban on freenode
[12:46] <nextgens> banning them on #freenet-refs is fine
[12:46] <LucisFerens> (I thiunk that a complete ban is a bit too much, but maybe that will make ppl undertsnd more easily what the problem is)
[12:46] <LucisFerens> k
[12:46] <nextgens> if they do exchange node reference, they blow up their tor identity anyway
[12:46] <LucisFerens> I got a crystal ball, you know? I see the future
[12:47] <LucisFerens> I see a lot of ppl complaining about you being a damn fascist on frost...
[12:47] <LucisFerens> :P
[12:47] <LucisFerens> (kidding)
[12:47] * nextgens doesn't care
[12:47] <nextgens> I've given up reading posts from anonymous morrons
[12:47] <LucisFerens> you need fight trolls some way
[12:47] <LucisFerens> yeah
[12:48] <nextgens> I read unsigned messages only on the freenet board
[12:48] <LucisFerens> too bad, because siome anonymous posts are actually intresting....
[12:48] <LucisFerens> you mean you read *signed* msgs only?
[12:49] <LucisFerens> ah
[12:50] <LucisFerens> I got it
[12:50] <LucisFerens> "unsingned messages, on the freenet board only"
[12:50] * LucisFerens 's a bit thick skulled
[12:58] * nextgens sets mode +v agsarite
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[13:05] <nextgens> agsarite> regarding r10661, would a warning be fine to you ?
[13:06] <nextgens> in fact two warnings : one when adding a new peer and one when removing it
[13:06] <agsarite> what's this about me and r10661?
[13:07] <nextgens> or shall I revert the whole thing and forget about it ?
[13:07] <agsarite> is this regarding some bug report?
[13:07] <nextgens> yes, a recent thread on @devl
[13:07] <nextgens> http://archives.freenetproject.org/thread/20061016.093235.9f027863.en.html
[13:07] * nextgens would like to get the input of a non developper on the topic
[13:09] <nextgens> to sum up, on the trunk version of freenet, it's not possible to remove any peer anymore unless it has been reported as inactive for more than a week
[13:09] <agsarite> i think making it hard for people to remove peers is a terrible idea.
[13:09] <nextgens> that "feature" seems to be controversial
[13:09] <agsarite> people should have complete control over their own node.
[13:10] <nextgens> ok, but would displaying a warning be sensible ?
[13:10] <agsarite> of course, that's just my opinion.
[13:11] <nextgens> it seems that most of the devs agree with you :)
[13:11] <agsarite> warning users against making probably stupid mistakes is always a good idea.
[13:12] <agsarite> it doesn't make sense to me to have an open source project try to limit what a person can do.
[13:13] <nextgens> we have to set rules, everywhere
[13:13] <nextgens> some might be abusive
[13:13] <nextgens> the whole project itself is managed by rules
[13:14] <nextgens> the connection retry rate, the bandwidth managment, the backoff limit (load-limiting)
[13:14] * Bombe (n=bombe@) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[13:15] <nextgens> that one might be a step in the wrong direction though
[13:15] <nextgens> but there is a valid reason behind it
[13:16] <nextgens> trying to artificially fight against people requiering nodes to be always online
[13:16] <nextgens> and allowing transitent nodes to be connected on those "high aviability" ones
[13:18] <agsarite> can you explain to me what this node churn is you're fighting against? is it creating holes/islands in the node distribution, or what is it doing that's so bad?
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[13:20] <nextgens> on any decentralized network, the topology has to be "stable" to some extend
[13:20] <nextgens> in order for any routing algorithm to work
[13:20] <nextgens> one of the current problem on 0.7 is that most of the nodes are transitent
[13:21] <nextgens> ie: up for a few hours a day at best
[13:21] <agsarite> so it's warping the topology enough that routing is being affected.
[13:21] <nextgens> yes
[13:21] <nextgens> and it's worst than that :
[13:21] <nextgens> as ipv4 and nats are making connections difficult with dynamic ip addresses
[13:21] <nextgens> and people are not patient,
[13:22] <agsarite> i thought you were going to say that old nodes were getting new locations so that old data can't be retrieved.
[13:22] <nextgens> some are getting new node references each time they power their node up
[13:22] <nextgens> on the basis that "it hasn't connected for 3 mins, let's prune some references"
[13:22] <nextgens> agsarite> old nodes are likely to have some stable peers
[13:23] <nextgens> and are likely not to move much on the keyspace
[13:23] <agsarite> well, how about you add the restriction of not swapping locations with a peer unless they've been connected for x amount of time?
[13:23] <agsarite> would that keep the topology stable?
[13:23] <nextgens> the problem with that "preemptive reference pruning" is that most of the nodes would have connected through ARKs if the user had let the node enough time to fetch them
[13:23] <nextgens> and it leads to bad user experience ...
[13:24] <nextgens> imho people are pushing for opennet because they are fed up to have to swap and raise new node refs. often
[13:25] <nextgens> agsarite> it's not only a matter of topology
[13:25] <agsarite> it sounds to me like open net will make this 'node churn' a bigger problem for you.
[13:25] <nextgens> missrouting will lead to bad performances ...
[13:25] <nextgens> but people are used to taht on freenet anyway
[13:25] <nextgens> but they aren't used to have to swap references often yet
[13:25] <nextgens> agreed
[13:25] <nextgens> but as I said, there is two problems
[13:26] <nextgens> 1) network wise
[13:26] <nextgens> 2) "conveniently" wise
[13:26] <nextgens> and users are concerned by the second
[13:27] <nextgens> network wise, opennet will be a nightmare imo
[13:27] <nextgens> some aren't convinced ... well, we will see
[13:28] <nextgens> but in terms of usability, there is not much we can do against people prunning their references too often
[13:28] <nextgens> except 1) instructing them
[13:28] <nextgens> 2) preventing them from prunning
[13:29] <nextgens> the problem with intructing them is that often, the "prunners" consider themselves as "power users"
[13:29] <agsarite> I'm in favor of giving them an obnoxious looking warning every time they do something that will be detrimental to the network.
[13:29] <nextgens> and don't care about what experience others will have because of their actions
[13:30] <agsarite> and telling the people that are worried about convenience that freedom isn't a commodity.
[13:30] <nextgens> well, I'm not keen on the warning as they are likely to just ignore it ;)
[13:30] <agsarite> other than that, i don't have any good ideas.
[13:30] <agsarite> well, then have two or three.
[13:30] <nextgens> :D
[13:30] <agsarite> 'are you sure?' 'are you sure you're sure?' 'are you really sure you're sure you're sure?'
[13:31] <nextgens> then Ian is gonna complain that it's bad in terms of usability
[13:31] <nextgens> and that having to do three clicks to perform one node addition is unacceptable
[13:31] <nextgens> and of course I would agree
[13:32] <nextgens> I'm not convinced either that I really do want to perform three clicks to add some reference
[13:32] <nextgens> ...
[13:32] <nextgens> hence I would implement a workaround
[13:32] <nextgens> a "power user/dev" mode
[13:32] <nextgens> like advanced darknet is
[13:33] <agsarite> having no way to remove a node is bad for usability, too.
[13:33] <nextgens> If you've concerns about a peer security, you could always disable it
[13:34] <nextgens> I'm not sure it's bad for usability
[13:34] <nextgens> I tell the user that the node won't be removable before it reaches one week of inactivity
[13:35] <nextgens> he won't know why, but he will know he isn't "allowed" to do it
[13:35] <agsarite> well, needing 3 clicks to do something, versus being unable to do something, which is less usable?
[13:36] <nextgens> removing a peer should hardly ever occur anyway
[13:36] <nextgens> and I think it's sensible to try to delay it
[13:36] <nextgens> important decisions are always time-delayed
[13:36] <LucisFerens> that will make ppl push even harder for opennet
[13:37] <agsarite> then you have one of those captchas on there to make sure they've read your warning before they can remove the node.
[13:37] <agsarite> okay, i don't have any good ideas.
[13:37] <agsarite> i'm sorry.
[13:37] * nextgens has spotted a nice javascript for that purpose
[13:37] <nextgens> you have to select letters one by one before you can submit the form
[13:38] <nextgens> :D
[13:38] <LucisFerens> and one week of inactivity will simply mean that I 'd have to disable a peer, leaving it disabled for a week and then delete it. only annoying, not really useful
[13:38] <nextgens> it's REALLY discouraging :D
[13:38] <nextgens> LucisFerens> what if I get rid of the "Disable" feature as well
[13:38] <nextgens> and allow only "ListenOnly" for instance ?
[13:38] <LucisFerens> that would discourage ppl from *using* freenet in the first place...
[13:39] <LucisFerens> so basically, I won't be able to delete a peer?
[13:39] <nextgens> unless it's really down, yes
[13:39] <LucisFerens> I would quit freene5t, and I think many other ppl would
[13:39] <agsarite> i'm gonna go, if i think of anything useful i'll let you know. (i probably won't, but it's the thought that counts, right?)
[13:39] <LucisFerens> (how about manually delete that peer from peers-<portnr.>?
[13:40] <nextgens> my patch was only preventing peers from beeing deleted from fproxy
[13:40] <nextgens> the console was still working
[13:40] <nextgens> most users don't know about it though
[13:41] <LucisFerens> but why?
[13:41] * priva77 (n=asdasd@) has joined #freenet
[13:41] <LucisFerens> you must leave users some control
[13:42] <priva77> hello
[13:42] <LucisFerens> hi
[13:42] <priva77> i have a problem with frost
[13:42] <priva77> do you think you can help me?
[13:43] <nextgens> LucisFerens> I've already explainned why : many users are leaving because they go on vacation for one week and when they are back, most of their peers have already prunned their reference
[13:43] <LucisFerens> only one? you lucky bastard...
[13:43] <nextgens> LucisFerens> and I understand that's very frustrating
[13:43] <priva77> lol
[13:43] <LucisFerens> yes
[13:43] <priva77> well I could have more if it worked at all;)
[13:43] <LucisFerens> I got that, but simply making ppl unable to control their own node is too much of a microsoft-like solution to me
[13:43] <nextgens> priva77> not until you've asked, that's for sure
[13:44] <nextgens> LucisFerens> hasn't m$ like 90% of the desktop market share ?
[13:44] <priva77> when I start frost (Im on Ubuntu Linux) the splash shows up, but when it says "sending IP to NSA" it freezes
[13:44] <LucisFerens> maybe , uses who go on vacation should tell their peers before they do
[13:45] <LucisFerens> priva77, wrong java version?
[13:45] * nextgens doesn't call all his friends before going
[13:45] <LucisFerens> me neither
[13:45] <priva77> 1.5.0
[13:45] <priva77> is my java version
[13:45] <LucisFerens> but I can well send a n2ntm to my peers
[13:45] <nextgens> nb: my friends aren't prunning my noderef
[13:45] <nextgens> priva77> that's not a java problem
[13:46] <nextgens> priva77> what if you telnet to the fcp port of your node ?
[13:46] <nextgens> try sending some garbage ... and see if the node replies
[13:46] <nextgens> if not, it's a firewalling/node configuration problem
[13:46] <priva77> I get connected
[13:46] <nextgens> otherwise it's a frost problem
[13:47] <nextgens> send line feeds
[13:47] <priva77> it says protocol error..
[13:47] <nextgens> ok, so it works
[13:47] <nextgens> then it's a frost problem
[13:47] <nextgens> are frost and the node on the same computer ?
[13:47] <LucisFerens> or maybe, the NSA server is overflooded...
[13:47] <LucisFerens> " when it says "sending IP to NSA" it freezes"
[13:48] <LucisFerens> </stupidjokes>
[13:48] <nextgens> that's the handshake
[13:48] <priva77> nextgens, yes, they are on the same computer
[13:48] <nextgens> priva77> ok, have you ever managed to get it working ? is it a fresh frost installation ?
[13:49] <priva77> noggly, it has never worked. It was installed with the freenet installer. I have also deleted the directory and unzipped frost again into a new one, but no effect. the MD5 of the zip is correct..
[13:50] <priva77> every time it shows me the connection dialogue where I can set Freenet 0.5 or 0.7 darknet(testnet
[13:50] <priva77> I have a 0.7 node, darknet
[13:50] * nextgens has an idea
[13:50] <nextgens> are you running .5 on the same computer ?
[13:50] <priva77> choosing testnet lets it freeze already at this hypercube message..
[13:51] <priva77> no
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[13:51] <nextgens> open freenet.ini
[13:51] <priva77> I have never run 0.5 here
[13:51] <nextgens> and look for the fcp port number
[13:51] <nextgens> is it the standard one ?
[13:51] <priva77> 9481
[13:51] <nextgens> hmm
[13:52] <nextgens> that's weird
[13:52] <nextgens> that ought to work
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[13:52] * Eol (i=Eol@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[13:52] * nextgens sets mode +v Maeglin
[13:53] <nextgens> priva77> no idea then
[13:53] <priva77> I will use wireshark to look at the communication between the programs
[13:53] <nextgens> good idea
[13:55] <priva77> ok this is strange
[13:56] <priva77> frost says hello and freenet too, thats all
[13:56] <priva77> it seems like frost doesnt react any more
[13:59] <priva77> are there some settings I could try to change in the node about FCP?
[13:59] <priva77> jSite works by the way
[14:00] <nextgens> try restarting the node
[14:01] <nextgens> there is a limit on the number of frost client allowed
[14:01] <nextgens> bbiab
[14:03] <priva77> does not work
[14:05] <priva77> my node also does not connect to new users any more i think
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[14:05] <priva77> but thats not such a problem, i have enough nodes at the moment
[14:06] <priva77> but it might have the same cause..
[14:06] <priva77> but well.. frost never worked, the adding problem is new
[14:07] * Darkmall (n=chatzill@) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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[14:21] <priva77> so.. no idea?
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[14:35] * tortelinni (n=tortelin@) Quit ("Leaving")
[14:36] <sbc> If I have a USK key, could someone remind me how to get the SSK for older editions of that site?
[14:55] * investigator (n=investig@) has joined #freenet
[14:56] <investigator> In Frost, there are two buttons, one marked 'Remove Board', the other marked 'Cut Board'. What's the difference?
[14:56] <investigator> oops, ok, forget it
[15:06] * KTV (n=ktv@) Quit ("AW WHO S A WITTLE FLUFFY WUFFY SNUGGLES BEAR? IZITCHOO? IZITCHOO, yesyesyes. DOES POOKIE WANT TO PLAY FETCH? AWW.")
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[16:13] <agsarite> why can i be fined for putting my life at risk? if i want to do something dangerous, why the heck can't i? i'm not risking anyone elses well being.
[16:14] <agsarite> why does everyone insist on protecting me against my will?
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[16:15] <agsarite> my best guess is the government doesn't want to risk spending money to save my life if something bad happens, but that's not an issue of saving human life, that's an issue of saving money.
[16:16] <agsarite> totally getting in the way of evolution, they should let me earn my darwin award and leave it at that.
[16:17] * investigator (n=investig@) Quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
[16:18] <agsarite> i suppose also they want to 'protect their investment' of having put me through their crap education system.
[16:18] <agsarite> i guess now they think i'm their property.
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[16:24] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
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[16:31] <Darkmall> salut tout le monde ! :-)
[16:33] <agsarite> is that 'hello all the world!'?
[16:33] * agsarite tries to remember what little he learned while looking at porn in french class.
[16:34] <agsarite> google says 'hello everyone'.
[16:34] <agsarite> well, close enough.
[16:36] <Darkmall> y a pa de fran??ais ici ?
[16:37] <agsarite> je ne parle pas francais.
[16:37] * Urs_ShPo (n=gaim@) Quit ("Leaving.")
[16:38] <Zothar_Work> Darkmall: this is an English channel primarily; perhaps there's someone on #freenet-fr at the moment
[16:38] <Darkmall> my english is bad sorry !
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[16:38] <agsarite> seems good enough to me.
[16:38] <Zothar_Work> Darkmall: we're not too picky about how well you write English... :)
[16:41] * nextgens sets mode +v Eol
[16:42] <agsarite> learning french is on my list of things i would do if i ever got bored enough to do it.
[16:42] <nextgens> :D
[16:43] <agsarite> possibly only because it would impress the ladies.
[16:43] <nextgens> how so ?
[16:43] <nextgens> speaking french helps ?
[16:43] <LucisFerens> it does
[16:43] <agsarite> it's the language of love.
[16:43] <LucisFerens> french, italian and spanish
[16:44] <agsarite> all the romantics speak french.
[16:44] * nextgens wasn't aware aware of it
[16:44] <agsarite> and have candle lit dinners under the eiffel tower.
[16:44] <LucisFerens> I don't know why, but women love guys who speak one of those languages
[16:44] <LucisFerens> well, of course not, *everyone* speaks french where you live...
[16:45] <LucisFerens> you can't have dinner under the tower, police would kick you out
[16:45] <nextgens> some better than other ;)
[16:45] <nextgens> :D
[16:45] <LucisFerens> heh
[16:45] <agsarite> lol.
[16:45] <agsarite> i meant in the background.
[16:45] <agsarite> as part of the romantic scenery.
[16:46] <agsarite> like, yeah.
[16:50] <Darkmall> i am french and i like speak english even if my english is not good
[16:52] <agsarite> did you have a question?
[16:52] * nextgens can't stand speaking about CS in french
[16:52] <nextgens> otherwise french is fine
[16:53] <agsarite> that's okay, you were only expected to use french to flirt with girls.
[16:53] <agsarite> the two subjects rarely come in contact with eachother.
[16:54] <nextgens> :)
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[17:03] <agsarite> i spoke french in a dream once. i don't know if it was correct, but it sounded plausible. it's strange how everything seems possible when you're unconscious.
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[17:06] <agsarite> i wish i was insane. i love living in dream worlds much more than reality.
[17:07] <mrflibble> agsarite - isn't the internet enough?
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[17:08] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
[17:08] <agsarite> no.
[17:08] <mrflibble> oh :(
[17:09] <nextgens> hi sanity
[17:09] <mrflibble> can anyone explain 2 me the difference between the stored keys and cached keys ?
[17:09] <sanity> hi nextgens
[17:09] * nextgens has replied to your mail
[17:10] <nextgens> as I've just explained in my reply, I'm concerned about transitent nodes not finding "stable" hooks on the main network
[17:10] <agsarite> cached keys have been exchanged for money, while stored keys are the things you hind under you mat for the event they you lose your main key.
[17:10] <agsarite> house key.
[17:10] <mrflibble> aaaah, i get it agsarite
[17:10] <nextgens> mrflibble> there is no difference
[17:10] * mrflibble thinks agsarite has lost it
[17:10] <nextgens> it's a two level datastore
[17:10] <mrflibble> oh, how does the node decide which store to put a key in?
[17:11] <agsarite> despite nothing interesting happening today, i for some reason found it very stressful.
[17:11] <nextgens> based on your location
[17:11] <nextgens> the perfect metaphor would be the Senate
[17:11] <mrflibble> oh
[17:12] <nextgens> depending on the previous election, they get more or less chairs
[17:12] <mrflibble> is location explained somewhere? i have no idea how that's calculated
[17:12] <mrflibble> ah
[17:12] <nextgens> it's a random number
[17:12] <nextgens> on a circular keyspace
[17:12] <nextgens> like in politics :p
[17:12] <mrflibble> i c
[17:12] <fasta> nextgens: how can I run Freenet as service at boot on Debian?
[17:13] <mrflibble> it just seems odd cos i've got 2gb cached, but only 35mb in the store
[17:13] <nextgens> fasta> creating a symlink in /etc/rc2.d/ pointing to run.sh
[17:13] <mrflibble> even though i've set aside 50gb for the total store
[17:13] <fasta> nextgens: I already did that.
[17:13] <nextgens> fasta> edit run.sh
[17:13] <nextgens> change the username to chuid() to
[17:13] <fasta> nextgens: change RUN_ASUSER, or something like that.
[17:13] <nextgens> yes
[17:13] <agsarite> fuck the rest of the day, it's sweet blissful unconsciousness for me.
[17:13] <fasta> nextgens: already did that
[17:14] <nextgens> then link run.sh to /etc/init.d/freenet
[17:14] <nextgens> and do "update-rc.d freenet defaults"
[17:14] <fasta> nextgens: already did that
[17:14] <nextgens> that ought to work
[17:14] <nextgens> ensure that run.sh is chmod +x though
[17:14] <fasta> nextgens: I created a user called freenet as a system user
[17:14] <fasta> nextgens: i.e. one without group and without shell.
[17:15] <nextgens> I guess you need it to have a shell
[17:15] <fasta> nextgens: I can post the set -x output when it doesn't work.
[17:15] <fasta> nextgens: some stuff gets executed but I don't really understand its format.
[17:15] <fasta> nextgens: I could RTFM on that, but I would assume that somebody knows how to get freenet running easily.
[17:15] <nextgens> mrflibble> don't worry about your store : to sum up, "persistent" data get stored into the store if its "location" is close to yours
[17:16] <mrflibble> ok, thanks!
[17:16] <nextgens> mrflibble> whereas the cache stores almost everything going through your node
[17:16] <mrflibble> ah ok
[17:16] <nextgens> mrflibble> and the store is "updated" from cache at bootup
[17:16] <nextgens> iirc
[17:16] <mrflibble> ok, thanks!
[17:17] <nextgens> fasta> stick the output on a pastebin and I'll have a look
[17:17] <fasta> nextgens: http://channels.debian.net/paste/4073 and 4074 for when it is working.
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[17:18] <fasta> nextgens: the first post is the bootlog, the second is the one when I start /etc/init.d/freenet-new manually.
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[17:20] <nextgens> hmm
[17:20] <nextgens> set the home of the freenet user to /usr/local/Freenet/
[17:20] <nextgens> and it should work
[17:21] <fasta> nextgens: how do you come to that conclusion?
[17:21] <fasta> nextgens: what does the home dir of the freenet user has to do with it?
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[17:24] <nextgens> it does su -m freenet -c '/usr/local/Freenet/run.sh start'
[17:25] <nextgens> and I doubt that will work unless it "chdir()" to the right directory
[17:25] <nextgens> and even if the wrapper starts ...
[17:25] <fasta> If the target user has a restricted shell, this option has no effect
[17:25] <fasta> (unless su is called by root).
[17:25] <fasta> su is called by root
[17:25] <fasta> Pretty dumb documentation in su
[17:26] <fasta> Preserve the current environment.
[17:26] <fasta> It seems it preserves the root environment
[17:26] * agsarite (i=agsarite@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[17:27] <fasta> nextgens: In what state should I execute that command to test whether it will chdir to the right dir?
[17:28] <nextgens> su -m freenet -c 'pwd'
[17:28] <nextgens> as root ;)
[17:28] <fasta> Additional arguments may be provided after the username, in which case
[17:28] <fasta> they are supplied to the user???s login shell.
[17:28] <fasta> nextgens: See that? It needs a login shell.
[17:29] <fasta> nextgens: a "system" user does not have a login shell, right?
[17:29] <fasta> nextgens: yes, I assumed that, just verifying.
[17:30] <fasta> nextgens: hmm, that command just works.
[17:32] <fasta> nextgens: su -m freenet -c '/usr/local/Freenet/run.sh start' also works as root when I do it manually.
[17:33] <nextgens> that's weird
[17:33] <nextgens> I've got no idea then
[17:33] <nextgens> hmm
[17:33] <nextgens> when is your JVM path set ?
[17:33] <fasta> nextgens: /etc/init.d/freenet-new start as root manually also works.
[17:33] <nextgens> is it in /etc/profile ?
[17:33] <fasta> I don't know, I will look it up.
[17:33] <nextgens> or in a local user profile ?
[17:34] <fasta> nextgens: export JAVA_HOME=/usr/lib/j2sdk1.5-sun/
[17:34] <fasta> nextgens: more than this I can't find
[17:35] <fasta> nextgens: when I do env, I don't get a variable containing JVM
[17:38] <nextgens> try adding it at the beginning of run.sh
[17:38] <fasta> nextgens: it?
[17:38] <fasta> nextgens: env?
[17:40] <nextgens> the export
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[17:44] <fasta> nextgens: do you happen to know how I can execute that script without rebooting and still get the same results?
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[17:45] <fasta> nextgens: I already rebooted like 10 times, you see.
[17:45] <nextgens> try switching init modes
[17:45] <nextgens> "init 1"
[17:45] <nextgens> then "init 2"
[17:45] <fasta> Ok, I do need to kill X for that, right?
[17:46] <fasta> since 1 is single-user, IIRC
[17:46] <nextgens> yep
[17:46] <fasta> ok, see you in 10 minutes or less.
[17:46] * fasta (n=fasta@) Quit ("leaving")
[17:46] <nextgens> or do it between 2 and 3
[17:46] <nextgens> too late :p
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[17:56] <fasta> nextgens: It appears to be working now I have made a non-system user. I.e. one with a homedir and a login shell.
[17:57] <fasta> nextgens: I don't like that however, and I would expect is also to work otherwise.
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[17:58] <fasta> s/is/it
[18:06] <fasta> nextgens: could you submit that as a bug to the bug tracking system?
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[21:43] <muluka> hi
[21:43] <muluka> anywhere now how upload is in freenet 0.7 possible
[21:43] <muluka> i will not only upload bytes
[21:43] <muluka> i will up more then 1 KB/S
[21:43] <muluka> i have a good up
[21:44] <muluka> i see is only bytes like 100 -500 bytes/s possible
[21:44] <muluka> when i chnage my node settings
[21:44] <muluka> to more upload
[21:44] <muluka> and can give a freeMulET user faster speed?
[21:45] <muluka> nothing knows about upload in freenet 0.7?
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[22:02] <_ph00> goddamnit
[22:02] <_ph00> I hate when they ask questions and disappear in 2 minutes
[22:03] <_ph00> I saw that mluka msg only now
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[22:25] * LoRez (i=lorez@) has joined #freenet
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[22:53] * Zedschaniko (n=chatzill@) has joined #freenet
[22:59] * Sagrath79 (n=cmla@) has joined #freenet
[23:04] * Sagrath79 (n=cmla@) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
[23:04] * MikeW (i=Mike@) Quit ()
[23:19] * Zedschaniko (n=chatzill@) has left #freenet
[23:43] * rah (n=rah@) Quit ("<McGruff---> as part of a human socialization process")
Irc logs of #freenet : 2008 2007 2006 2005
These logs were automatically created by FreenetLogBot on chat.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.