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[0:04] <n0name> does freenet only work through a darknet now and isn't that rather insecure when you have to exchange them all the time?
[0:05] <MineHaunter> not more insecure than any opennet
[0:07] <n0name> without the darknet nobody had to reveal anything though to connect to freenet
[0:07] <toad_> TheSeeker: the problem with the intercepted swap data is that nodes change location, so you can't easily construct a graph of the network
[0:07] <toad_> TheSeeker: you need to include some sort of hash of the identity or something
[0:09] <MineHaunter> n0name: without the darknet, anyone know you're running a node and can connect to your node and conduct statistical attacks on your datastore
[0:09] <n0name> also few people have static IPs which makes things complicated unless you get a dyndns
[0:10] <n0name> but whatever, I'll give it a try :)
[0:10] <toad_> n0name: on the opennet, you had to reveal your IP to EVERYONE, not just to the people you choose to connect to
[0:15] <CIA-5> toad * r10602 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/node/Version.java:
[0:15] <CIA-5> 986:
[0:15] <CIA-5> - Fix CSS backgrounds (and other stuff including url()'s).
[0:15] <CIA-5> - Some work on freenet.ini persistence.
[0:15] <CIA-5> - Fix metadata problems inserting large files with filenames.
[0:15] <CIA-5> - Add EarlyEncode option in FCP inserts, which causes the node to try to get a key ASAP (at the cost of some CPU and memory)
[0:19] <TheSeeker> toad_: That's why I said that the nodes should suspend swaps for N minutes before the collection time (enough time to complete any outstanding swaps) ... this ensures that at the time of data snapshot for stat upload, the network is 'static' as far as locations vs identities go. assuming everyone's clock is accurate to n minutes, the map generated by the data collected should be perfectly accurate.
[0:20] <toad_> TheSeeker: that's not realistic
[0:21] <TheSeeker> toad_: what's unrealistic about it?
[0:23] <n0name> whats N2NTM?
[0:24] <TheSeeker> node to node text message
[0:25] <toad_> TheSeeker: freezing swapping for an arbitrary period is unrealistic
[0:26] <toad_> 986 is out
[0:29] <n0name> how likely is it to get anything inserted into freenet right now with a node ref or two, like all frost messages
[0:30] <n0name> by get I mean receive
[0:33] <toad_> good chance if you have 2 reliable connections
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[7:53] <_ph00> agsarite, you there?
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[10:27] <johnwest> somebody wants tot rade ref with me?
[10:31] <johnwest> i am on for 24/7
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[10:52] <nextgens> hi
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[11:37] <CIA-5> toad * r10603 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/client/async/SingleFileInserter.java: Logging.
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[11:44] <CIA-5> toad * r10604 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/clients/http/BookmarkManager.java: Add Indicia as first bookmark, keep Darknet Index as second.
[11:44] * toad_ sets mode +v agsarite
[11:44] * agsarite gasps for air.
[11:44] <toad_> bbiab
[11:44] <agsarite> thankyou
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[12:03] <CryptBlack> I've been gone since 5.0, does link prefetching in FF still help performance?
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[12:12] <ljn1981> Of course
[12:12] <ljn1981> And you of course mean 0.5
[12:24] <toad_> on 0.5, link prefetching was rather dangerous
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[12:26] <toad_> on 0.7 it isn't
[12:26] <toad_> welcome greycat
[12:26] <greycat> hi
[12:31] * toad_ attempts to debug USK subscriptions ...
[12:33] <toad_> i wonder if the problem might in fact simply be "hard" priorities
[12:33] <toad_> maybe the solution is simply to use the soft scheduler for SSK fetches...
[12:35] <toad_> we need guarantees that the update checker does run from time to time ... without it dominating ...
[12:35] <toad_> alternatively we could run it at a relatively high priority and rely on round-robin ...
[12:44] <agsarite> is there any chance of freenet supporting svg some day?
[12:46] <toad_> sure
[12:46] <toad_> we'd need a lot of work on the HTML filter
[12:46] <toad_> well in fact we'd need a new XHTML filter
[12:47] <toad_> we can't support arbitrary XML because we don't know what browsers will do with it
[12:47] <toad_> so we need an XML engine, and then a class for each type we understand
[12:47] <toad_> which functions as a whitelist filter
[12:47] <toad_> so one for XHTML, one for SVG, etc
[12:48] <toad_> if you want to work on it then that would be nice
[12:48] <toad_> :)
[12:48] <toad_> at the moment we only support HTML 4.01 and CSS2
[12:49] <agsarite> i'm sure i could learn java help you with freenet, but (insert excuse here)
[12:49] <toad_> :)
[12:50] <agsarite> i was curious, because indicia's graphics are all natively svg, and i wanted to make a bunch of charts, and having them all as svg would save a lot of space.
[12:50] <toad_> well, it's possibl
[12:50] <toad_> e
[12:50] <toad_> but it will require a lot of work
[12:51] <toad_> and there's no real urgency seeing as nobody uses SVG yet
[12:52] <agsarite> well, maybe after i finish my spider i'll look at learning java.
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[13:04] <toad_> agsarite: make sure you publish your spider
[13:04] <toad_> bbiab
[13:05] <agsarite> should i publish the rest of indicia while i'm at it?
[13:05] <toad_> probably a good idea (apart from the privkeys)
[13:05] <toad_> so somebody can take up the torch if there is a problem
[13:05] <toad_> bbiab
[13:05] <agsarite> hey, look, black helicopters!
[13:06] <toad_> agsarite: :)
[13:06] <toad_> agsarite: here comes a chopper to chop off your head!
[13:06] <TheSeeker> just to clutter the room with pointless chatter ... I found out the compression algorithm used in the packets I've been trying to decompress is LZO. now for the fun part of trying to figure out how the decompression routine is initialized...
[13:06] <toad_> TheSeeker: how did you determine that?
[13:07] <toad_> agsarite: actually generally speaking having the raw data for each index site in an easily parsable format could be very useful
[13:07] <toad_> cofe was talking about that a while ago
[13:07] <toad_> cya
[13:08] <TheSeeker> toad_: IDA Pro demo anylized the program. I have a debug version with a pdb, so I got to see all the function names. I told it to break on 'process manifest' and had a look at the surrounding calls... many of which had "lzo_*" as the name... also, the first part of the parsing procedure is checking the adler32 crc ...
[13:09] <TheSeeker> There's also a version string functino there indicating LZO v1.07 from Oct 18 2000 ...
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[13:11] <TheSeeker> It has the ability to load java too... I think I'll try analyzing Freenet :D
[13:13] <TheSeeker> hmm, it seems to have choked and died on "manifest.mf"
[13:26] <TheSeeker> looks like it can show me a single class' layout, but not a whole project :/
[13:35] <CIA-5> bback * r10605 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/ (clients/http/StatisticsToadlet.java node/Node.java): added some basic store size statistics to statistics page
[13:48] <CIA-5> mrogers * r10606 /trunk/apps/load-balancing-sims/phase6/Sim.java: Add edges to Kleinberg graph independently
[13:49] <CIA-5> bback * r10607 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/clients/http/StatisticsToadlet.java: added JVM informations to statistics page
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[14:18] <mario69> hello, creating a second Frost ID is not a problem, but is it possible to run two Frosts at the same time, each with a different user ID?
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[14:19] <mario69> will they conflict or will the node handle it ?
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[14:19] <investigator> w/b ljn
[14:20] <ljn1981> :)
[14:20] <investigator> that link you provided yesterday for the wiki was quite helpful
[14:20] <investigator> thanks
[14:21] <ljn1981> Good
[14:21] <investigator> It seems that TOR is banned on most nets, makes me wonder how it is that they know you're coming from a TOR
[14:22] * inigo (n=Administ@) has joined #freenet
[14:22] <inigo> hello
[14:22] <inigo> i am just setting up freenet 0.7 to test it
[14:22] <investigator> hello inigo
[14:22] <ljn1981> Hey
[14:23] <investigator> is your last name by any chance Montoya?
[14:23] <inigo> it allways binds to ipv6 adresses, which are not forwarded
[14:23] <inigo> no
[14:23] <investigator> k
[14:23] <inigo> by no chance, actually ;)
[14:23] <investigator> :-)
[14:23] <mario69> Montoya? Are u expecting Spanish Inquisition? :)
[14:23] <inigo> how can i change this behaviour? its running on a linux box
[14:24] <ljn1981> mario69: Nobody expect the spanish inquisitio!
[14:24] <investigator> no, not really. (I hope not)
[14:24] <mario69> ljn1981, right ;-)
[14:24] <inigo> if you consider investigator's name, he probably himself is ;)
[14:24] <ljn1981> inigo: Sorry, haven't got a clue.
[14:25] <investigator> yeah, you're right about that, inigo. I should have chosen another nic
[14:25] <inigo> lol
[14:25] <investigator> I took it because I was 'investigating' the Freenet, trying to decide if I wanted to use it
[14:26] <inigo> so, so you are saying i need to use torture to find out about ipv6 addresses?
[14:26] <inigo> ;)
[14:26] <investigator> gee, think it will work?
[14:26] <inigo> i did hope i just would need to add something to freenet.ini
[14:26] <investigator> actually, I only asked because inigo was the name of a character in the movie 'Princess Bride'
[14:27] <inigo> no, i only could connect from a local browser, thats all i get...
[14:27] <investigator> I'm using Windoze, and I'm new at this, so I can't help
[14:27] * ljn1981 points inigo to the comfy chair
[14:27] <investigator> I think if I ever got involved with Linux, I would have to treat myself to a nervous breakdown, first
[14:28] <mario69> inigo, and what happens when you enter your IP4 to nodeAddressOverride in config?
[14:29] <mario69> s/node/IP
[14:29] <inigo> it makes it ::ffff:ip-adress
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[14:30] <inigo> and i do not seem to be able to connect from the local network, leave alone the internets...
[14:30] <mario69> does ifconfig eth0 show an IP4 address assigned?
[14:31] <inigo> sure
[14:31] <mario69> what about routing then?
[14:31] <tyx> <investigator> It seems that TOR is banned on most nets, makes me wonder how it is that they know you're coming from a TOR <- they block the socks4 port
[14:31] <tyx> or standard proxy port
[14:31] <tyx> but when it does work, it is super slow
[14:32] <investigator> oic. now I get it. just so you know, to me, socks is something I put on in the morning before I put on my shoes....
[14:32] <investigator> :-)
[14:32] <tyx> :p
[14:32] <mario69> oh, all 4 of them? ;-)
[14:32] <investigator> I would take a course in all this computer stuff, if I could understand any of it
[14:32] <inigo> the thing is, there is a router in between, that i couldn't tell about ipv6. and i really don't know, what it is doing with such traffic
[14:33] <tyx> well socks is an internet protocal basically
[14:33] <investigator> right, I understood that, but there are so many of them, and I can't really absorb all the information about the nitty-gritty of it all
[14:34] <tyx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOCKS :p
[14:34] <tyx> its useless information these days
[14:34] <tyx> socks isnt really used
[14:34] <investigator> ahhh, why didn't I think of that?
[14:34] <tyx> or at least ive never used it
[14:35] <investigator> in the initial topic above it says, "Tor blocked due to spam: get a tor/regular cloak" What is a tor/regular cloak?
[14:36] <tyx> i guess just an other 'cloak', as in proxy
[14:37] <toad_> hmmm
[14:37] <investigator> btw: I tried to connect to DALnet using TOR, and was told, "You're not welcome here. You are infected with an IRC virus..." I wonder if I'm really infected, or are they just trying to scare the bejesus out of me?
[14:37] <toad_> Frost keeps on saying it can't upload a message
[14:37] <toad_> and USK uploads simply don't work - they stall
[14:37] <tyx> dalnet sucks, so i wouldn't worry about it investigator
[14:38] <tyx> but you may have a irc based virus
[14:38] <tyx> like sdbot
[14:38] <investigator> ok, thanks (running A/V scan anyways, just to be sure)
[14:38] <tyx> they're common things
[14:38] <mario69> with upgrade to the 986 I started to observe something I think may be increased net fragmentation. My peer list did not decrease, but I started to get Route not found errors and Frost is timing out on short message inserts. Can you see this too?
[14:38] <investigator> well, my A/V scans Trillian and Opera, which is what I used to come in
[14:39] <tyx> sdbot is hard to detect sometimes
[14:39] <tyx> http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_100454.htm
[14:39] <mario69> in fact I added a few refs but it did not help any. :(
[14:39] <investigator> k. I'll look into it
[14:39] <tyx> mario69: i upgraded and now my refs are gone
[14:40] <tyx> but i think that may be my fault. my computer restarted last night from a power outage, so i guess i was offline for some time, causing others to delete me
[14:40] <ljn1981> They should still be listed as your peers, just not connected then
[14:41] <tyx> yeh, thats what i mean
[14:41] <tyx> different problem then i suppose
[14:41] <investigator> seems like the Internet makes it damned hard to communicate anonymously. Makes it hard to get a little privacy. Big Brother IS watching
[14:41] <ljn1981> Ah ok
[14:41] <mario69> well, my node is 24/7 for more than a month and I did not loose any peers. I only see routing/data not found errors/ Frost problems I did not have before
[14:41] <ljn1981> Yup
[14:42] <tyx> the joys of experimental software
[14:42] <investigator> really
[14:42] <inigo> i found out
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[14:43] <inigo> i needed to tell it to bind to 0.0.0.0, that way it accepts connects fro evrywhere
[14:43] <toad_> tyx: hasn't happened to me for ages (losing refs on restart) ... any idea why?
[14:43] <toad_> tyx: did your peer number change?
[14:44] <tyx> no the number didn't change, i misread my list. i thought it had.
[14:44] <toad_> mario69: do you still have many connections?
[14:44] <mario69> toad_, yes, but I see something else. networkSizeEstimateSession: 147 nodes
[14:44] <tyx> all but one are offline, however, but i blame myself
[14:45] <mario69> whereas previously I saw 400+ estimates
[14:45] <tyx> i said i was 24/7, which i am, but the power went out. i'm assuming people saw i was disconnected and deleted me
[14:45] <toad_> mario69: that's a function of uptime
[14:45] <toad_> mario69: how many connections do you have actually CONNECTED ?
[14:45] <toad_> mario69: as many as before?
[14:46] <mario69> toad_, I know. 12/0/0/0/7 right now
[14:46] <toad_> i can upload KSKs ...
[14:46] <toad_> but not USKs
[14:47] <mario69> I made a restart, so nodeUptime: 45m5s; networkSizeEstimateSession: 147 nodes. But before the restart the estimate was in 200+ range, not 400+ as earlier
[14:47] <toad_> i can also download stuff, at least, some images on Indicia that hadn't been loaded before will load after a time
[14:48] <mario69> well, I am trying to dl a key which was reported as good on a successful board and I get route error
[14:48] <ljn1981> Only new things I've seen in the past few days is avrConnPeersPerNode decreasing by about 2.0 compared to last week and my node locationswappig a lot more, it's been around the keyspace a time or two in the last 48 hours or so but it's about back where it started.
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[14:48] <mario69> is 1977 music still covered by copyright?
[14:49] <mario69> if not, here is the key: CHK@nhU9YwRCw9eD4~TBtKWgA6PcIOwbJDWpTLn~mLFJ0M4,9GUIEGx1JmCOYtQu5GQrzvAQbMdnkr7eSxp7T1ehSoM,AAEC--8/AC-DC - [1977] Let There Be Rock.zip
[14:49] <ljn1981> mario69: Depends on the country I guess
[14:49] <toad_> mario69: of course it is
[14:49] <mario69> i 'think' it is like 25 years here, so I may be OK. :)
[14:50] <mario69> anyway, this key is for testing, not for full retrieval.
[14:50] <toad_> mario69: i'd be amazed if it was that short
[14:50] <toad_> mario69: maybe in russia, but even russia is tightening up now
[14:50] <hadsoil> why not just use some small 'legal' file for testing?
[14:51] <toad_> there are plenty of legal files
[14:52] <mario69> toad_, if you have a 'legal' key ready, I am willing to try to get it
[14:53] <toad_> freenet:CHK@LArtTc1fSECpaj9I4BrKXVbWSRkuEM3~ct7Y1Vwi9rQ,FDCrZyQf5VmmPlZxVaLwSXdnsOTWOVi~iZQTqY3qseQ,AAEC--8/SN-055.mp3
[14:53] <toad_> USK@c55vMxUl-T-lD3nv0iOaXF~G1hnY6pOMRbzZSwACMmY,yd8~uwUmGm164-ipStoiBOJVjkbbYXJMlD~H5ftPxIA,AQABAAE/WeThePeople/2/scans.7z (hopefully)
[14:53] <toad_> CHK@cpeUj0Y3J3hfD8JbBtSaPhSlTO-UwHzN8N30kWFKZmQ,QZ4mU7SCJXfW509EB2Dnxe5pReTBTAPSdWBRbIt6zOA,AAEC--8
[14:53] <toad_> they'll do for now
[14:53] <toad_> CHK@RvxmwUhZlnY5gHWByz0yullddvDOyRTIPRe-iGGjons,hxEG35NgNRLEHF5VU2yaAg3FMuMUTinbDNq-hrn7f2g,AAEC--8/cover-1.png
[14:56] <mario69> scans.7z made it to the queue
[14:58] <investigator> tyx, one other thing I haven't been able to figure out... when I use Freenet to download something, is it encrypted as it works its way to my computer? In other words, can my ISP see what I am reading/downloading?
[14:59] <toad_> not easily
[14:59] <investigator> ok, thanks
[14:59] <hadsoil> Actually freenet installs a huge speaker on your roof where what you're reading is loudly proclaimed. Resistance members, beware.
[14:59] <toad_> there are possible attacks... at the moment you can MITM or impersonate if you have both references, but we'll fix thatr soon
[14:59] <investigator> LOL
[15:00] <toad_> once that's fixed, they'd have to MITM your original manual connection process i.e. impersonate the people you are connecting to when you exchange refs
[15:00] <toad_> the countermeasure to THAT is to exchange refs securely
[15:00] <investigator> I like the part when Frost boots up where it says, "Sending your IP to the NSA" :-)
[15:01] <investigator> ok, now I just need to figure out how to 'exchange refs securely'
[15:02] <ljn1981> As in only do it with people you know and trust.
[15:03] <investigator> one thing I did notice... when i read the Freenet homepage, is that it talks about 'Freedom of Speech' and 'tolerance', but when i went to a couple of the indexes, i got the impression that 'Freedom of Speech' is only for some, and 'tolerance' is not for all.
[15:03] <investigator> ljn, sort of like having sex
[15:03] <ljn1981> Hehe yeah
[15:03] <hadsoil> or smugling dead hookers.
[15:04] <hadsoil> don't act like you haven't.
[15:04] <ljn1981> But yeah a lot of people have issues with freedom of speech cutting both ways
[15:04] <toad_> investigator: hmmm?
[15:04] <investigator> I only have sex with people I trust, that is to say, they must be living and breathing
[15:04] <investigator> ;-)
[15:05] <toad_> investigator: what's the problem with the indexes?
[15:05] <investigator> yeah, it seems that a lot of people have a lot of issues
[15:05] <investigator> I can't say that there was a problem. Just that I got the impression from some of the inserts that 'tolerance' is not on the top of some people's lists
[15:05] <toad_> well sure, some of the sites are intolerant
[15:05] <toad_> but they are able to express themselves !
[15:06] <investigator> and I also got that impression from the Frost boards
[15:06] <investigator> (some of them)
[15:06] <toad_> you can have fascist bigots, communist bigots, etc etc, all on freenet and all able to express their hatred of each other
[15:06] <investigator> yes, that did occur to me
[15:06] <toad_> the PFJ and the JPF can both have pages explaining that the only people they hate more than the romans are each other, and precisely why
[15:06] <tyx> theres more of that on the 'regular' internet though
[15:06] <investigator> makes you wonder why they bother getting onto something like the Freenet
[15:07] <mario69> toad_, the other two keys are still 'undecided', i.e. node did not return any data to the browser. In addition the node seems to be not responsive.
[15:07] <tyx> only people here can yell at each other and remain anonymous
[15:07] <toad_> mario69: so it's still trying to fetch them?
[15:07] <mario69> yes
[15:07] <toad_> mario69: has the browser stopped? did it time out? did it return 0 bytes? is it still waiting?
[15:07] <hadsoil> the dream lives.
[15:07] <toad_> ok
[15:07] <toad_> well it can take a while sometimes
[15:08] <mario69> but if i now try to go to http://127.0.0.1:8888/darknet/ the node will not service this request
[15:08] <toad_> mario69: hmmm
[15:08] <mario69> the browser did not stop. It is waiting for data drom the node
[15:08] <toad_> mario69: is that a browser limitation? try opening a separate browser (not a separate window, a separate browser)
[15:08] <mario69> s/drom/from
[15:08] <mario69> ok, will try
[15:08] <investigator> I guess my problem was that I had understood the Freenet concept to be the free exchange of information, but got the understanding that there are also some traps for the unwary on the boards
[15:09] <mario69> browser limitation
[15:09] <toad_> mario69: :)
[15:09] <toad_> mario69: open a new tab in firefox, go to about:config
[15:10] <toad_> mario69: change the relevant settings (network.http settings related to connection limits)
[15:10] <mario69> ok, this triggered two things
[15:10] <mario69> the node returned the cover.png
[15:10] <toad_> investigator: like any uncensored forum...
[15:10] <mario69> and reported Data not found on the third key
[15:10] <investigator> right
[15:10] <toad_> unmoderated, spammed
[15:11] <toad_> "Data not found on the third key" ?
[15:11] <toad_> or "Data not found" on the third key ?
[15:11] <mario69> yes, you gave me three keys to try, didn't you?
[15:11] <toad_> which is the third key?
[15:12] <mario69> CHK@cpeUj0Y3J3hfD8JbBtSaPhSlTO-UwHzN8N30kWFKZmQ,QZ4mU7SCJXfW509EB2Dnxe5pReTBTAPSdWBRbIt6zOA,AAEC--8
[15:14] <toad_> hmmm
[15:14] <toad_> i can get that here
[15:14] <toad_> ask somebody else to try it
[15:14] <mario69> I am retrying as well
[15:15] <mario69> oh, and I see there were four keys, I am trying the last as well (the SN-055.mp3)
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[15:18] <ljn1981> toad_: What's the difference between the cache and the store?
[15:18] <mario69> so the current status on my side is: got cover-1.png; the scans.7z sits in the queue at 11.7%, the CHK@cpeU... failed and is retried, the mp3 is undecided yet
[15:18] <toad_> ljn1981: store is for long-term storage
[15:19] <toad_> mario69: how did you submit it?
[15:19] <mario69> all through fproxy
[15:19] <toad_> ljn1981: long term storage = only store stuff which is a) from inserts, AND b) for which we are the best node
[15:19] <ljn1981> toad_: So cache should be cleared on node restart or what=?
[15:19] <toad_> mario69: it shouldn't fail if it's submitted by fproxy to the queue
[15:19] <toad_> ljn1981: no
[15:19] <mario69> update, mp3 went to queue a second ago
[15:19] <ljn1981> Ah
[15:20] <toad_> ljn1981: store takes precedence; cache is for slashdot avoidance
[15:20] <ljn1981> I was wondering why my cache was 11.8 times as big as my store.
[15:21] <toad_> store grows much more slowly
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[15:22] <mario69> update: CHK@cpeUj... returned data not found again. Trying for the third time...
[15:25] <mario69> update: CHK@cpeUj... resolved to some mp3 file. Enqueueing now
[15:25] <investigator> toad, I understood that we don't really have much control over what is stored
[15:27] <CIA-5> toad * r10608 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/client/async/ (BaseSingleFileFetcher.java USKChecker.java USKFetcher.java): USK logging, maxRetries=0 means 1 try and no retries.
[15:29] <ljn1981> toad_: Must the cache obay store size limit too? If not we should propably make it so or have a seperate limit.
[15:30] <mario69> toad_, thanks for test keys. Reaching one took like 4 attempts, this tells me I am not really well connected. Gotta fish more refs :)
[15:31] <investigator> I'll bbiab
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[15:32] <agsarite> if i was insane, could i convert a KSK into a SSK private key?
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[15:55] <CIA-5> toad * r10609 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/client/async/ClientRequestScheduler.java: Logging
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[16:09] <toad_> ljn1981: there's an overall limit; we shrink the cache as the store grows, up to 80% store 20% cache
[16:09] <ljn1981> Ok
[16:14] <inigo> does anybody know which port freenets STUN requests use?
[16:20] <ljn1981> Whatevrr is default for STUN I guess but I do't know
[16:21] <ljn1981> There were major concerns about the safety of introducing STUN so I'd assume nothing is special about it
[16:22] <ljn1981> Anyway time to watch a movie
[16:22] <ljn1981> BBL
[16:27] <toad_> hmmmmmm
[16:27] <toad_> Frost seriously slows down SSK polling ...
[16:27] <mario69> grrrrr.... Frost is still reporting timeouts on message inserts. Plain text messages, signed and encrypted. No attachments.
[16:28] <toad_> timeouts? it tells you what the problem is then?
[16:28] <toad_> mine doesn't tell me what the problem is ...
[16:28] <toad_> what does frost consider to be a timeout?
[16:29] <mario69> no, it asks me only if I want to: retry, try on next Frost restart, or discard message
[16:29] <toad_> hmmm
[16:29] <toad_> i only get that hwen the node is switched off
[16:29] <toad_> hmmm
[16:30] <mario69> Current Activity * Inserts: 12 * Requests: 30 * Transferring Requests: 2 * ARK Fetch Requests: 8 - definitely on :-)
[16:30] <toad_> priority -> retry count -> client -> client-requesty
[16:30] <toad_> in other words:
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[16:31] <toad_> if you are trying to fetch an SSK, and you retry twice, and you expect it to DNF - i.e. if you're inserting a USK, or doing a /-1/ lookup - then you have to wait for ever
[16:31] <toad_> if you are trying to fetch an SSK, and you retry twice, and you expect it to DNF - i.e. if you're inserting a USK, or doing a /-1/ lookup - then you have to wait for every KSK frost has submitted to be tried once ...
[16:31] <toad_> before moving on to the next attempt
[16:32] <toad_> given that we may have 100 clients (most of them frost, some of them ARKs) ... it could easily be 20 minutes before you get around to being retried ...
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[16:32] <toad_> this is partly because it's 10 seconds between each SSK request
[16:33] <toad_> we could send many more SSK requests if we decoupled them from CHK requests in load limiting
[16:33] <Griffon26> nextgens: you there?
[16:33] <toad_> but if we do that we might as well decouple requests from inserts as well
[16:34] <toad_> and the original rationale was that inserts get far more RejectedOverload's than requests do, so coupling them is good
[16:35] <toad_> if we could track the number of nodes an insert went to, that would help, but i'm not sure if it can be done safely
[16:35] <Griffon26> toad_: I cannot get the darknet index. However, I have modified native.properties as nextgens suggested as a workaround for the non-native FEC that caused 100% cpu usage.
[16:35] <toad_> Griffon26: what if you take the /-40/ and change it to /40/ ?
[16:35] <Griffon26> Not sure if that could've caused this problem. Frost is working fine though.
[16:36] <Griffon26> toad_: it already links to /40/
[16:36] <toad_> Griffon26: hmmm no idea then, it works here
[16:36] <Griffon26> frost is working for messages at least.. haven't been able to fetch files in a while though
[16:37] <Griffon26> toad_: if there's any way I can help locate the cause of the non-native FEC problem, please let me know
[16:38] <toad_> another part of the problem is that frost gets a disproportionately high fraction of requests because it uses a bazillion connections
[16:38] <Griffon26> I've also tried it without frost running
[16:39] <toad_> actually no ... we have the same *window* but we use the RTT from SSKs only with it ...
[16:39] <toad_> hmmm
[16:39] <toad_> so decoupling wouldn't help
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[16:43] <iwantnode> My cache went corupt after a powercut any way of getting it back
[16:44] <toad_> how corrupt?
[16:45] <toad_> the node won't start up?
[16:45] <toad_> it should auto-recover in most cases
[16:45] <Griffon26> I put the freenet-ext backup back and now I can go to the darknet index again
[16:46] <Griffon26> apparently it wasn't a very successful workaround =)
[16:46] <iwantnode> the node wont start up
[16:46] <toad_> can you post your wrapper.log on code.bulix.org ?
[16:47] <iwantnode> k
[16:49] <iwantnode> toad_ here is ther wrapper.log i hope it is the big you wanted http://dark-code.bulix.org/8l83mw-19276?raw
[16:52] <CIA-5> bback * r10610 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/store/ (BerkeleyDBFreenetStore.java FreenetStore.java): made FreenetStores maxChkBlocks readable from outside
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[17:08] <CIA-5> bback * r10611 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/clients/http/StatisticsToadlet.java: added nice overall store size statistic
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[17:23] <CIA-5> toad * r10612 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/support/SectoredRandomGrabArray.java: Logging
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[17:40] <CIA-5> jflesch * r10613 /trunk/apps/Thaw/src/thaw/fcp/FCPClientPut.java: Fix CHK key when inserting (again...)
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[17:53] <ljn1981> Hey again
[17:54] <ShoeyFighter> Hey
[17:55] <TheSeeker> if my insert already has the chk generated, shouldn't the "required" number of blocks be a finalized total by then?
[17:58] <toad_> probably
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[18:20] <ljn1981> Overall: 244,479/1,638,679 (~7.46 GiB/50.0 GiB)
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[18:21] <ljn1981> For a while it said 28.0GiB instead of 50.0GiB, my limit is actually set to 30G, what's going on?
[18:21] <ljn1981> That new stat in r10611
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[18:36] <toad_> ljn1981: a bug?
[18:36] <toad_> ljn1981: does it give a breakdown of store/cache?
[18:36] <toad_> oh
[18:36] <toad_> oh
[18:36] <ljn1981> Possibly
[18:36] <toad_> well...
[18:37] <TheSeeker> #
[18:37] <TheSeeker> # Payload Output: 9.98 MiB (4.08 KiBps) (59%)
[18:37] <TheSeeker> # Total Input: 11.9 MiB (4.87 KiBps)
[18:37] <TheSeeker> :/
[18:37] <toad_> i think it's 50G because the cache is set to max - [ current store size ], and the store is set to [ max store size ]
[18:37] <TheSeeker> # Connected: 16
[18:37] <TheSeeker> # Backed off: 3
[18:38] <TheSeeker> ?:]
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[18:44] <CIA-5> toad * r10614 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/support/math/TimeDecayingRunningAverage.java: Synchronize before doing System.currentTimeMillis(), to ensure serialization.
[18:46] <toad_> brb
[18:47] <toad_> this is going to be an interesting commit
[18:47] <ljn1981> Oh?
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[18:52] * _ph00 has only 5G od store
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[18:56] <CIA-5> bback * r10615 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/ (2 files in 2 dirs): added cache and store hits stats
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[19:07] <toad_> rehi
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[19:07] <ljn1981> wb
[19:07] <ljn1981> wb
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[19:36] <toad_> anyone have any opinions on priority -> retry count -> client -> request vs priority -> client -> retry count -> request (order of priorities when selecting requests) ?
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[19:40] <toad_> ok, here's the problem:
[19:40] <toad_> if you have e.g. frost running, it starts lots of requests, with maxretries very low
[19:40] <toad_> or it starts so many requests that there are always frost requests running with retrycount=0
[19:41] <toad_> problem is, other clients need to have their requests retried
[19:41] <toad_> they never get retried, or at least, they don't get retried until all of frost's requests have been tried once
[19:42] <toad_> in particular, USK inserts never progress, because for a USK insert to progress requires that at least 3 keys be tried 2 or 3 times and each of them DNF
[19:43] <toad_> so, options:
[19:43] <toad_> 1. priority -> client -> retry count -> request
[19:44] <toad_> 2. subtract say 4 or 5 from the retry count before ordering by it, so that only requests which we have tried many times will be penalised for it
[19:44] <toad_> 3. divide retry count by some number.
[19:44] <toad_> 4. hacks specific to USK inserts (won't solve the problem of USK@.../x/-1/ being really slow)
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[19:45] <toad_> i think #2. it's arbitrary, sure, but we DO want to penalize stuff that's been being requested for years on end, so i'm not happy with #1
[19:47] <CIA-5> toad * r10616 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/client/async/BaseSingleFileFetcher.java: I was wrong.
[19:50] <inigo> does file download work now with frost or do i need to have fuquid anyway?
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[20:08] <TheSeeker> Frost doesn't not upload 'from disk' or download 'to disk' ... so I never use frost for uploading or downloading anything :P
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[20:12] <_ph00> if some guy (not me, I swear!) by mistake installed freenet as root, would chown <user> -R fix it?
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[20:18] <ShoeyFighter> Hello. Just ran update.sh, and this exception is in my wrapper.log: http://code.bulix.org/2wvdd6-19312
[20:19] <inigo> theseeker:thanks
[20:20] <inigo> ph00: yes, it would do
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[20:25] <_ph00> inigo I'm trying to help a guy who made that mistake, but after chown'ed, it still doesn't work
[20:25] <_ph00> indigo: never mind
[20:25] <_ph00> it is working now
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[20:30] <inigo> ph00: i see. next i would have suggested to look at $PATH ;)
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[20:56] <CIA-5> toad * r10617 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/support/SortedVectorByNumber.java: Only throw if re-adding something different to the existing IntNumberedItem.
[20:58] <CIA-5> toad * r10618 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/client/async/ClientGetter.java: Better toString()
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[21:00] <CIA-5> toad * r10619 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/client/async/ClientRequestScheduler.java:
[21:00] <CIA-5> If # retries is less than 3, ignore it.
[21:00] <CIA-5> Fixed: we were doing prio -> retry count -> request. We should do prio -> retry count -> client -> request.
[21:03] <CIA-5> toad * r10620 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/node/fcp/FCPClient.java:
[21:03] <CIA-5> Better toString().
[21:03] <CIA-5> Frost hack: hello-[0-9]* indicates frost. Treat as a single client for request selection (see later commits for use, here we just define the variable).
[21:03] <CIA-5> toad * r10621 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/node/fcp/FCPConnectionHandler.java: Logging
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[21:04] <CIA-5> toad * r10622 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/node/fcp/PutSuccessfulMessage.java:
[21:04] <CIA-5> Don't NPE if no URI on success.
[21:04] <CIA-5> Will remove this later; debugging code.
[21:05] <CIA-5> toad * r10623 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/support/SectoredRandomGrabArray.java:
[21:05] <CIA-5> Fix type issues.
[21:05] <CIA-5> Add the grabber to the array not just the map in addGrabber().
[21:05] <CIA-5> Logging.
[21:07] <CIA-5> toad * r10624 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/node/fcp/ClientPut.java: Second part of Frost-is-one-client hack.
[21:08] <CIA-5> toad * r10625 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/ (8 files in 4 dirs):
[21:08] <CIA-5> Pass in client when subscribing to USKs.
[21:08] <CIA-5> => When subscribing from an insert, we use the insert's client; the bookmark manager is the client for bookmark polling; etc.
[21:08] <CIA-5> - Minimizes the number of clients.
[21:09] <toad_> i've seen some major errors while coding/debugging this, so i'm not going to release a new stable build yet
[21:09] <toad_> but please could some folk upgrade? thanks
[21:09] <Zothar_Work> it may take me a few minutes since I'm rather busy, but I'll upgrade...
[21:10] <CIA-5> toad * r10626 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/support/SortedVectorByNumber.java: Don't re-add. (Duh)
[21:24] <toad_> bbiab
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[22:24] <Zothar_Work> toad_: just as a datapoint: I'm getting OOMs with nothing queued, no FCP clients, just traffic from peers with the default wrapper.java.maxmemory=128; 16 connected, 2 backed off,
[22:26] <TheSeeker> heh, I blink and 10 builds go by...
[22:29] <Zothar_Work> blink again... :)
[22:29] <Zothar_Work> (we've found a new rapid development method :)
[22:33] <toad_> Zothar_Work: you're sure nothing is queued?
[22:34] <Zothar_Work> nothing in the global queue, so only if my own home-built FCP client has something queued still, but it's not queuing persisten requests/inserts and the node has been restarted since the client last connected
[22:35] <Zothar_Work> unless Frost/Freemail do persistent stuff (they've not run since the node restarted too, IIRC)
[22:39] * hdp (n=hdp@) Quit ("Leaving")
[22:46] <toad_> Zothar_Work: check downloads.dat.gz
[22:47] <Zothar_Work> toad_: 22 bytes; looks like it's "0\n" or gzipped + gzip header
[22:47] <toad_> ok...
[22:47] <Zothar_Work> +so
[22:47] <toad_> i dunno
[22:47] <toad_> do some memory profiling if you can
[22:48] <toad_> do you need a command line?
[22:48] <Zothar_Work> did that awhile back, but didn't spend enough time looking at the results, which I probably let run too long; (I have it from last time)
[22:48] <toad_> well it might be different this time
[22:48] <Zothar_Work> I'll try it later since I'll be leaving work at the top of the hour
[22:48] <toad_> so do it again
[22:48] <Zothar_Work> ok
[22:48] <toad_> ok cool
[23:01] <toad_> Zothar_Work: obviously the fix is to increase the maxmemory, but it ought to work with max=128
[23:02] <Zothar_Work> it was with queued items and active FCP clients, but I've gotten OOMs with max=512. I wonder if there are some areas we could cut back on memory usage; was the store combining idea going to do some of that?
[23:09] * Zothar_Work (n=chatzill@) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox 1.5.0.7/2006090921]")
[23:11] <paveq> http://blog.predius.org/2006/10/05/fucks-per-source-package-and-license/
[23:11] <paveq> :P
[23:13] <paveq> sleep ->
[23:14] * NullAcht15_ (n=NullAcht@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[23:16] * sanity (n=ian@) has joined #freenet
[23:16] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
[23:16] <agsarite> 5 - weigh each request by 1/priority^2*time_on_queue, perform request with the highest value?
[23:17] <agsarite> i guess it stops being a queue then, but whatever.
[23:18] <agsarite> damn, emergence priority requests get a weight of infinity. okay, 1/(1+priority)^2*time
[23:27] <agsarite> i'm glad my spider caches the results of downloading and parsing non-usk keys, because it's taking for ever.
[23:29] * sanity (n=ian@) Quit ()
[23:30] <agsarite> downloaded and parsed 1893 text files, skipped 272 non text files. failed to download 5141 files. attempting to download 30 files, 2939 files remaining to be checked.
[23:33] <CIA-5> toad * r10627 /trunk/freenet/LICENSE.Freenet: Include the full GPL, including the notes on applying it to your programs.
[23:35] <toad_> agsarite: yes, we may have other options in future
[23:35] <toad_> but i think what i coded is a reasonable compromize, if a bit messy
[23:37] <agsarite> i hope i don't screw anything up that will render my cache obsolete.
[23:39] <agsarite> do you think dot can handle a graph with tens of thousands of nodes? i want to make a huge picture of freenet when i'm done.
[23:41] * sanity (n=ian@) has joined #freenet
[23:41] * ChanServ sets mode +o sanity
[23:50] <SinnerG> hmm I actually like my 'weird' way of php coding :p
[23:50] <SinnerG> TC()->Users()->loginUser(); for example ;p
[23:51] <SinnerG> TC : Namespace || Users : Subspace || loginUser : Function
[23:53] * Rivetnode (n=chatzill@) has joined #freenet
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