Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
[0:00] <ljn1981_> TheSeeker: It's called i IncomingSwapRequestHandler and OutgoingSwapRequestHandler.
[0:00] <toad_> well, arbitrary maximums aren't generally a good thing ...
[0:00] <toad_> but it should help in some corner cases
[0:01] <toad_> and we can always raise the limits later
[0:01] <JustMe> Frost works with r10515 and FEC error. So much for that idea. :)
[0:02] * ljn1981 (i=LJN@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[0:02] * Caco_Patane (n=caco@) has joined #freenet
[0:03] <toad_> Caco_Patane: hi
[0:03] <Zothar_Work> arbitrary limits are probably a good thing until we can replace them with properly working dynamic limits
[0:03] <Zothar_Work> (i.e. load limiting, etc.)
[0:03] <toad_> Caco_Patane: please email me (toad at amphibian.dyndns.org) and tell me whether you support changing the license of freenet to "GPL 2 or later"
[0:03] * ljn1981_ is now known as ljn1981
[0:06] <toad_> Zothar_Work: well yeah it will be obsoleted by the new load limiting mechanism eventually
[0:06] <Zothar_Work> toad_: maybe it's just me, but r10531 may not build...
[0:07] <Zothar_Work> [javac] /home/davids/download/linux/prog/svn/freenet-0.7/trunk/freenet/src/freenet/node/RequestStarterGroup.java:33: cannot find symbol
[0:07] <Zothar_Work> [javac] symbol : constructor RequestStarter(freenet.node.NodeClientCore,freenet.node.RequestStarterGroup.MyRequestThrottle,java.lang.String,freenet.support.TokenBucket,freenet.support.TokenBucket,freenet.support.math.TimeDecayingRunningAverage,freenet.support.math.TimeDecayingRunningAverage)
[0:07] <toad_> hmmm
[0:08] <toad_> i'm pretty sure i committed that file
[0:08] <toad_> oh
[0:09] <CIA-5> toad * r10532 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/node/RequestStarterGroup.java: Doh
[0:09] <agsarite> you content filter broke my css.
[0:10] <toad_> :|
[0:10] <agsarite> it removed the spaces in '@import "shape.css" screen,print;', and didn't expand shape.css to a full key.
[0:11] <agsarite> i suppose this is where you tell me to file a bug report.
[0:11] <Zothar_Work> r10532 compiled for me
[0:12] <ljn1981> '
[0:16] <toad_> agsarite: yup
[0:16] <toad_> agsarite: include enough info for us to easily reproduce the bug
[0:20] <Zothar_Work> gtg laters all
[0:20] * Zothar_Work (n=chatzill@) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox 1.5.0.7/2006090921]")
[0:22] * Caco_Patane (n=caco@) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[0:24] <CIA-5> toad * r10533 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/keys/FreenetURI.java: Fix KSKs.
[0:28] * Werdna (i=Andrew@) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[0:30] * Werdna (i=Andrew@) has joined #freenet
[0:35] <_ph00> right
[0:35] <_ph00> another one
[0:35] <_ph00> couldn't you guys just release the last one for the day?
[0:36] <_ph00> (OK np, updating/upgrading is no problem)
[0:36] <_ph00> ...but then again...
[0:36] <_ph00> 5 times in 2 hours...
[0:36] <_ph00> k
[0:36] <_ph00> upgrading agin
[0:36] <ljn1981> _ph00: But we're only a few hours into the day :P
[0:37] * Caco_Patane (n=caco@) has joined #freenet
[0:38] * SinnerG (i=SinnerG@) Quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[0:38] * Jflesch (n=Jflesch@) Quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[0:38] * Gorai (n=ano@) Quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[0:38] * sanity (n=ian@) Quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[0:38] * _ph00 (n=z@) Quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[0:38] * anonymouse (n=a@) Quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[0:38] * Beta_M (n=Somebody@) Quit (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[0:38] * Gorai (n=ano@) has joined #freenet
[0:38] * Jflesch (n=Jflesch@) has joined #freenet
[0:38] * anonymouse (n=a@) has joined #freenet
[0:39] * Beta_M (n=Somebody@) has joined #freenet
[0:41] <CIA-5> toad * r10534 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/node/Node.java: Idiot.
[0:41] <ljn1981> What a nice commit message
[0:42] <JustMe> _ph00 r10533 seems to fix the KSK problem.
[0:42] <toad_> "idiot" is referring to me
[0:42] <toad_> I hope nobody gets the wrong idea
[0:42] <ljn1981> Must be bad when it's not just Doh
[0:42] * _ph00 (n=z@) has joined #freenet
[0:43] <ljn1981> Ok that's a bad one
[0:46] * JustMe needs to look to see is someone is here before talking.
[0:47] <_ph00> NO!
[0:47] <_ph00> NOT ANOTHER ONE!
[0:47] * JustMe needs a new keyboard.
[0:48] <_ph00> heh
[0:48] <JustMe> ;)
[0:48] <_ph00> some 30% of the letters on my keys are gone
[0:49] <_ph00> anmlier are gone, and ophw are almost gone
[0:49] * Docta_Z (n=chatzill@) has joined #freenet
[0:49] <JustMe> I have worn off the white letters on my black keyboard.
[0:49] <_ph00> same here
[0:49] <JustMe> lol
[0:50] <_ph00> white letter, black keyboard, quickly disappearing
[0:50] * djkep (n=djkep@) has joined #freenet
[0:50] <_ph00> the letteras, not the kys
[0:51] <JustMe> It didn't take long... then I tried to "clean" them. It made it worse.
[0:51] <_ph00> of course id id
[0:52] <_ph00> you clean them, you actually erase the ltters from the keys
[0:52] <_ph00> my keybboard lasted something more than one year before starting losing letters
[0:53] <Docta_Z> come don't you know the keyboard?
[0:53] <djkep> i am looking after someone to connect frost
[0:53] <_ph00> now 1 and one half year old, and the letters are disappearing pretty fast
[0:53] <Docta_Z> **come on
[0:53] * JustMe is dumb
[0:53] <_ph00> yesh. I remember where the letters are
[0:53] <_ph00> even if I don't actually see them
[0:54] <djkep> please is anybody can know about frost ??
[0:54] <_ph00> I hope I'll learn the the whole keyboard before they're completely gone
[0:54] <_ph00> then maybe, I'll start looking at the screen instad of looking at the keybard when typing
[0:54] <Docta_Z> lol
[0:55] <_ph00> I know that's bad habit, I just can't get rid of it
[0:55] <_ph00> djkep, what's the problem?
[0:57] <_ph00> woah
[0:57] <_ph00> is that so late
[0:57] <_ph00> no wonder I was feeling kinda sleepy
[0:57] <ljn1981> Heh
[1:00] <_ph00> well I'm gona try to get some sleep beore the sun goes up
[1:00] <_ph00> godd night (?) anyone
[1:00] <_ph00> ok 3 am is still night
[1:00] <_ph00> (central EU time)
[1:00] <_ph00> nigthy night
[1:00] <_ph00> :P
[1:01] <ljn1981> Nini
[1:04] <djkep> excuse
[1:04] <djkep> i would like to peer but i don't know where tu paste the public number
[1:05] <CIA-5> toad * r10535 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/node/Version.java: 981: Fix Frost. Again.
[1:05] <ljn1981> You could use http://dark-code.bulix.org
[1:05] <toad_> or you could just send people you want to connect to your myref.fref file
[1:05] <toad_> i mean privately
[1:05] <toad_> via dcc or whatever
[1:06] <toad_> good night
[1:06] <ljn1981> Nini
[1:06] <JustMe> nite Toad
[1:06] * toad_ (n=toad@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[1:10] <ljn1981> Nini guys
[1:11] * ljn1981 (i=LJN@) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.75-2006090801 [Firefox 1.5.0.7/2006090921]")
[1:12] <agsarite> I think I found a security problem.
[1:12] <agsarite> http://localhost:8888/freenet:CHK@0OjDmEA7NRkYboF3d-pUSFkcW5AEKY2Huk6HoV~hwcg,PZftKw2sl9Cxyo~vuOnnMCLutmt68O95UeiTUbO6~8c,AAEC--8/
[1:13] <agsarite> it's accessing a file from the interweb.
[1:14] * mazzapan (n=mazzapan@) has joined #freenet
[1:15] <agsarite> for reals
[1:15] <agsarite> 192.168.2.2 - - [27/Sep/2006:21:11:58 -0400] "GET /EVILNESS HTTP/1.1" 304 - "http://localhost:8888/freenet:CHK@0OjDmEA7NRkYboF3d-pUSFkcW5AEKY2Huk6HoV~hwcg,PZftKw2sl9Cxyo~vuOnnMCLutmt68O95UeiTUbO6~8c,AAEC--8/" "Opera/9.00 (X11; Linux i686; U; en)" 662 166
[1:15] <agsarite> teh logs prove it.
[1:17] * djkep (n=djkep@) Quit (Excess Flood)
[1:21] * djkep (n=djkep@) has joined #freenet
[1:24] * |Xabbu (i=MKK@) has left #freenet
[1:24] <agsarite> :(
[1:25] * |Xabbu (i=MKK@) has joined #freenet
[1:27] <djkep> elazny , how to set up the forum in frost please
[1:30] * djkep (n=djkep@) has left #freenet
[1:38] * Werdna (i=Andrew@) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[1:59] * MineHaunter (n=van85@) Quit ()
[2:03] * Docta_Z (n=chatzill@) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.7/2006090918]")
[2:18] * Zincoid (i=Zincoid@) has joined #freenet
[3:41] * Caco_Patane (n=caco@) Quit ("Leaving")
[3:51] * scar (i=scar@) has joined #freenet
[4:03] * Werdna (i=Andrew@) has joined #freenet
[4:29] * |Xabbu (i=MKK@) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[4:34] * Werdna_ (i=Andrew@) has joined #freenet
[4:34] * Werdna (i=Andrew@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[4:40] * Werdna_ (i=Andrew@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[4:41] * Werdna_ (i=Andrew@) has joined #freenet
[4:43] * Werdna_ is now known as Werdna
[4:49] * railk (n=railk@) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[5:07] <agsarite> Either something has gone horribly wrong with my browser update, or freebnet is returning file soup.
[5:23] * noggly (i=noggly@) has joined #freenet
[5:30] * Werdna (i=Andrew@) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[5:33] * noggly_ (i=noggly@) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[5:45] <agsarite> hmm, it seems to be behaving itself, now.
[5:55] * Werdna (i=Andrew@) has joined #freenet
[5:58] <nextgens> agsarite> that's f*cking bad indeed
[5:58] <nextgens> and we ought to be protected from that
[5:58] <nextgens> https://emu.freenetproject.org/svn/trunk/freenet/src/freenet/clients/http/filter/CSSTokenizerFilter.jflex
[5:58] <agsarite> hallo
[5:59] <nextgens> "@import"{W}{W}*({STRING}|{URL})({W}*{W}{MEDIUMS})?";" {
[5:59] <nextgens> why doesn't that match it ?
[5:59] <agsarite> i don't know how to read that.
[6:00] <nextgens> then you can read the java generated file ... but I doubt it will be easier :)
[6:00] <nextgens> btw, have you submited a mantis ticket for it ?
[6:00] * nextgens has to go soon
[6:00] <agsarite> https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=782
[6:00] <nextgens> but as it's a security bug, it ought to get fixed asap
[6:08] <agsarite> not nearly as important, but i can't use underscores in token names.
[6:09] <nextgens> :|
[6:13] <nextgens> DOH
[6:13] <nextgens> what has toad done in latest release ?
[6:14] <nextgens> now inserts are failing : "Meta string used in the key"
[6:14] <nextgens> whereas there is no meta
[6:19] <agsarite> I don't know, a little while ago I had it returning the wrong files to my browser. but it seems to have since fixed itself. It looked funny with toad's frogs replaced with stretched out of shape active links.
[6:20] <agsarite> but it has since fixed itself, and i'm not sure it wasn't screwed up caching on my browsers behalf.
[6:21] <nextgens> hmm
[6:21] <nextgens> it might be a thaw bug though
[6:21] <agsarite> i don't access thaw through my browser.
[6:22] <nextgens> sorry, I was talking about my bug :)
[6:22] <agsarite> i see
[6:22] <agsarite> no shortage of those.
[6:22] <nextgens> I think toad has done a mistake releasing 980
[6:25] * nextgens sets mode +v scar
[6:28] <scar> thanks. i am just wondering, is freenet set up like an IRC network? so, if a node goes down, then some or all of freenet is unavailable to users who use that node?
[6:29] <agsarite> it's arranged in a web, if a node goes down, the nodes around it take its place.
[6:30] <agsarite> well, sortof.
[6:31] <agsarite> the topology is chaotic. but the point is, there are tons of possible routes for data to take.
[6:32] <scar> hmm so its more like the internet ;)
[6:33] <agsarite> yes. not only are there multiple routes to the data, the data is duplicated in many places also.
[6:34] * scar] (i=scar@) has joined #freenet
[6:35] * scar (i=scar@) has left #freenet
[6:35] * scar] is now known as scar
[6:36] <nextgens> the thing is that contrary to irc you're not connected to one point
[6:36] <nextgens> hence it's decentralized
[6:36] <nextgens> on irc users are connecting to a server
[6:36] <nextgens> wich is a leaf of a hub
[6:37] <nextgens> on freenet, each user runs a node wich is both "server" and "hub"; there is no leaf unless you have only one connection
[6:37] <nextgens> agsarite> I've found the problem with the cssfilter
[6:38] <nextgens> but I'm not sure of how it should be fixed
[6:38] <nextgens> we do "s = processURL(s);"
[6:38] <nextgens> wich probably doesn't match anything as your url is enquoted
[6:38] <nextgens> I'll let toad fix it :p
[6:39] <agsarite> yes, make toad do all the work, that's what he's there for.
[6:39] <agsarite> i think its doing screwy things that doesn't explain, though.
[6:40] <agsarite> let me try to find an example
[6:40] <agsarite> http://localhost:8888/freenet:USK@c55vMxUl-T-lD3nv0iOaXF~G1hnY6pOMRbzZSwACMmY,yd8~uwUmGm164-ipStoiBOJVjkbbYXJMlD~H5ftPxIA,AQABAAE/Vapor/3/shape.css
[6:40] <agsarite> its removing @media ...
[6:40] <agsarite> and html { ...
[6:41] <agsarite> i'm not sure it's supposed to be doing that.
[6:41] <agsarite> plain text: http://localhost:8888/freenet:USK@c55vMxUl-T-lD3nv0iOaXF~G1hnY6pOMRbzZSwACMmY,yd8~uwUmGm164-ipStoiBOJVjkbbYXJMlD~H5ftPxIA,AQABAAE/Vapor/3/shape.css?type=text/plain
[6:45] * Torched is now known as XTorchedX
[6:45] <nextgens> bbl
[6:46] <agsarite> is pattern matching really the safest way to do things?
[6:47] <agsarite> shouldn't you, like, parse the file yourself, and then write a new file so you can be 100% sure the junk you've written is safe?
[6:47] * XTorchedX is now known as Torched
[7:28] * mYone (i=schlepto@) has joined #freenet
[7:34] <_ph00> aloha
[7:36] <agsarite> why are you saying goodbye to me?
[7:36] <_ph00> aloha = hey
[7:37] <agsarite> stupid linguist.
[7:37] <_ph00> what?
[7:37] <agsarite> you smell funny.
[7:38] <agsarite> you heard me.
[7:38] <_ph00> 1 - I'm not a lingusit
[7:38] <_ph00> 2 - aloha is the only hawaiian word I know
[7:38] <_ph00> 3 - what's wrong with you?
[7:39] <agsarite> can't i be a dick?
[7:39] <_ph00> well... I suppose you can once in a while. we have lots of dicks around here
[7:41] <_ph00> hey. update.sh us updating itself
[7:41] <_ph00> cool
[7:42] * QshelTier (n=bombe@) has joined #freenet
[7:42] * ChanServ sets mode +o QshelTier
[7:43] <_ph00> Freenet 0.7 Build #981 r10535
[7:44] * Bombe (n=bombe@) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[7:45] <_ph00> what does this line mean?
[7:45] <_ph00> identity=CWBoHMD4KcnevOJR31lQyIyfzFiGO6WlKJVVvWeHL3k
[7:45] <_ph00> is it an unique ID?
[7:45] <_ph00> yeah, I knw...
[7:45] <_ph00> o
[7:45] <_ph00> but as I said, ph00 is not anonymous any more
[7:46] <agsarite> i suspect its your social security number, encoded in base 64.
[7:46] <_ph00> why would I do that?
[7:47] <_ph00> chek you refs, you should have that line too
[7:47] <_ph00> c
[7:47] <agsarite> teh noes! my node has been compromised!
[7:48] <agsarite> you've hacked me!
[7:48] <_ph00> ?
[7:48] <agsarite> i'm telling my mommy on you.
[7:48] <noggly> we're doooooomed!
[7:48] <_ph00> you shouldn't smoke that stuff early in the morning
[7:49] <noggly> and you should learn not to put every single word on a single irc line ;)
[7:49] <_ph00> why
[7:49] <_ph00> not
[7:49] <_ph00> ?
[7:50] <noggly> because you might just get laughed at or just ignored
[7:50] <agsarite> i don't need to smoke anything to be crazy. reality has fucked me up enough on its own.
[7:50] <_ph00> it's not so annoing when the channel is almost dead
[7:50] <_ph00> y
[7:51] <_ph00> maybe posting only the letter I intend to coorct when I type wrong is a bit strange, usually you repeat the word with a *
[7:51] <_ph00> correct*
[7:51] <_ph00> likwe this
[7:51] <_ph00> like*
[7:51] <_ph00> anyways, I wanted to ask another thing:
[7:52] <noggly> just don't use so many lines, it makes reading the backlog extremly annoying, THINK, TYPE, READ, THINK AGAIN and then press RETURN
[7:52] <_ph00> my nickname on irc is not anonymous anymore, any idiot with 2 milligrams of brin can figure out who the real-world ph00 is, and at what IP adress
[7:53] * _ph00 looks at the definition of "think" on the dictionary
[7:53] <_ph00> hhmmm... sorry. can't do that
[7:53] <noggly> i feared that :/
[7:53] <_ph00> but ok, too many lines are annoying I get that
[7:55] <_ph00> anyways, when freent bgets banned, I'm already a known freenet guy, with my real name and IP, how do I go underground and keep running?. would it be enough if I switched IP by changing ISP or re defining my ISP contract, and reinstalled the node,this time running the paranoid way?
[7:59] <noggly> switching isps and running new darknet conncetions should be enough, but i don't think that will be necessary outside china/north vietnam/etc.
[8:00] <noggly> also your ip alone goes not give too much of your identity away
[8:02] * ljn1981 (i=LJN@) has joined #freenet
[8:04] <ljn1981> Morning
[8:09] <ljn1981> Anyone who plan to stick around on freenet want to peer? I'm looking for 24/7 nodes and nodes that are usually on between now and 12 hours ago. +/- a couple of hours differece on each end of that doesn't matter. PM me. (yes I know this is not the rigth channel but -refs is rather dead).
[8:09] <_ph00> my ISP alone does give my real ID away: asking the ISP who has that IP would do. and they will tell to anybody with a badge. and provide details on all my visited pages etc (which is why I use tor).
[8:11] <_ph00> I hope that freenet won't get banned, but you know the old saying, hope for the best prepare for the worst
[8:11] <_ph00> oops, I meant "my IP alone blah blah blah..."
[8:12] <ljn1981> Yeah
[8:12] <noggly> if your isp gives your personal information to anyone i would look for another
[8:12] * MaxxDrv (n=mack@) has joined #freenet
[8:12] <_ph00> they don't, offically
[8:12] <ljn1981> Without a warrent? Remember to sue them if that's and option if they do that sometime.
[8:14] <ljn1981> noggly: _ph00 got this problem with it being the only ISP there if I remember correctly
[8:15] <noggly> sounds like china ;)
[8:15] <_ph00> but I'm pretty sure they would if they had a judge's warrant. any ISP would, that's the law. And I don't trust judges. in this country, judges are "superstars", go on tv, say to people what they should do (and think), speak abnot "morals" and stuff... at that while being people who go straight from a home-boy student to being a judge, without know anything about real life. thay have too much power, too much attention, and they don't know anithing b
[8:15] <_ph00> ut their books.
[8:16] <_ph00> Not really the *only* ISP, there are other ISP, but all they have is adsl with crappy upload speeds. my ISP is the only one in the country that has good up speeds
[8:16] <_ph00> and yes, theis country suck. I'm ashamed of being born here... but on the other hand, that was not my choice
[8:17] <_ph00> ljn, I could add you as a peer... if I haven't already
[8:18] * _ph00 considers a typing course...
[8:19] <_ph00> maybe I should use those learn-how-to type games I have on debian
[8:19] <noggly> there are many programs out there, some of them freeware to teach you 10 finger typing, they are not too bad :)
[8:21] * sbc (n=sbc@) has joined #freenet
[8:22] <_ph00> # networkSizeEstimateSession: 213 nodes
[8:22] <_ph00> # nodeUptime: 38m43s
[8:22] <_ph00> not bad. 213 nodes in 40 minutes. it's getting betteer
[8:23] * mYone (i=schlepto@) Quit (Client Quit)
[8:24] <anonymouse> the thing that ultimately taught me typing was writing papers and stuff in college
[8:24] <anonymouse> and irc is what made me good at it =)
[8:26] <_ph00> I never went to college
[8:26] <_ph00> and when I was in school, computers were not around
[8:27] <_ph00> well, they were, but not this much (late 70/early 80's)
[8:27] <MaxxDrv> just before the 8-bits if i remember.
[8:28] <_ph00> probably. I remember learning the basic DOS in ...1988 maybe
[8:28] <_ph00> the I left computers alone until 1998/99, something like that
[8:28] <anonymouse> well my advice is learn the basics of how to do typing right, and then type a novel or something
[8:28] * droden (n=droden@) has joined #freenet
[8:28] * ChanServ sets mode +o droden
[8:29] <anonymouse> repetition is the key
[8:29] <_ph00> I use 2 finger per hand, often holding a cig in the right one
[8:30] <_ph00> and I'm really bad at writing novels and stuff, my characters lack "personality"
[8:30] <ljn1981> Cute
[8:30] <_ph00> on the other hand, I guess I write better than a lot of so-called writers
[8:30] <anonymouse> well there's no law you have to type a certain way
[8:30] <_ph00> but I left that alone a long time ago
[8:30] <ljn1981> "I haven't given up on Vapor, yet. However, I seem to have forgotten the philosophy of KISS. For some reason I want to add chess to it. Adding strange stuff like that to something that barely exists can't be a good sign. Still, it would be cool to have an online game over Freenet, and chess is non-realtime enough to probably work. I'm getting way to ahead of my self. I don't think we're...
[8:30] <ljn1981> ...anywhere close to having games over Freenet."
[8:31] <ljn1981> From Indicia 28
[8:31] <_ph00> on line games on freenet are a good idea
[8:31] <anonymouse> hmm, freechess?
[8:31] <ljn1981> Chess over freenet could be fun
[8:31] <anonymouse> why not online poker =P
[8:31] <MaxxDrv> i was thinking about a game as well...
[8:31] <anonymouse> oh yeah the slowity
[8:31] <_ph00> ship battle
[8:31] <_ph00> any nn real time game caoud do
[8:32] <MaxxDrv> really just need some 'real time' communication and it shouldn't be too far off.
[8:33] <MaxxDrv> this n2ntm thing might do it.
[8:33] <ljn1981> Maybe made so it could either play over n2nm messages or a pair of SSKs for playing with others than your peers
[8:33] <MaxxDrv> but that seems to be for immediate peers.
[8:34] <ljn1981> n2nm might even be able to deal with semi-real-time
[8:34] <ljn1981> Yeah
[8:34] <_ph00> should I use PeerGuardian?
[8:35] <MaxxDrv> i would reccommend blocklists to everyone.
[8:35] <MaxxDrv> keeps the bogon packets in check.
[8:35] <_ph00> n2n messages are buggy. once I recived the same messages hundreds of times (litterally) and lately, one n2n mgs was recieved at least 5 times
[8:36] <_ph00> I would use blocklists if I only knw where to begin with. any links
[8:36] <anonymouse> peerguardian == ?
[8:36] <ljn1981> _ph00: But they're getting better and we still have no games or anything using n2nm.
[8:36] * _ph00 cheks out google and wikipedia
[8:37] <_ph00> anony, peerguardian (should) block sists of known BadGuys, inc IP's
[8:38] <anonymouse> how does someone determine who is bad?
[8:38] <_ph00> ljn I guess we should wait until they do get better before we start using them intensively
[8:38] <anonymouse> woops did i just delete ph00?
[8:38] <_ph00> well, hundred of IP's are known as belonging to seurity agencies, RIAA-like stuff, etc
[8:39] <anonymouse> _ph00 do you show me connected?
[8:39] <_ph00> let's se...
[8:39] <anonymouse> oh yea i remember your node name now
[8:39] <anonymouse> sry nevermind
[8:39] <anonymouse> man only nodes that i can even stay connected to are agsarite and you
[8:39] <_ph00> yes. anony connected
[8:39] <MaxxDrv> buggy messages happen, udp..
[8:39] <anonymouse> i guess it's time to go back to #refs and pick up some new pikers
[8:39] <_ph00> a name that reminds of 42...
[8:40] <MaxxDrv> unstable user packets.. heh
[8:40] <anonymouse> yes _ph00 i remembered
[8:40] <_ph00> k
[8:42] <_ph00> anony if you have problems with nodes that won't stay connected, maybe you shoud be more selective on you peers: keep adding peers and keep deleting those who won't stay up, until you get some ~12 stable nodes
[8:43] <_ph00> I did it that way, and now I have 14 fairly stable peers
[8:46] * JackMack (n=mack@) has joined #freenet
[8:47] <vextr> where's the changelist for new freenet versions?
[8:48] <vextr> oh.. found it.. wiki.
[8:48] * JackMack (n=mack@) has left #freenet
[8:50] <vextr> well.. found a change LOG anyway... it's a bit tedious.. surely there's a 'whats changed since last version' for each release?
[8:59] * Werdna (i=Andrew@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[8:59] * MaxxDrv (n=mack@) Quit ("ERROR (A)bort (R)etry (I)nfluence with large hammer")
[9:00] <vextr> :/ seems like you have to hunt around in the archives of the tech email list to find version announcements and changes..
[9:00] <_ph00> what's reverse-path filter spoof protecion? should I enable that?
[9:00] * Ash-Fox (i=UNKNOWN@) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[9:02] <_ph00> and what are TCP/IP SYN cookies? should I enable those?
[9:03] <_ph00> yes, I am trying to find out by googling, but I can't figure out what to do
[9:03] * OK_Computer (i=OK_Compu@) has joined #freenet
[9:17] * kakaks (i=mixderax@) has joined #freenet
[9:19] <anonymouse> syn cookies are good to enable
[9:19] <anonymouse> in a nutshell: tcp connections require 3 packets to establish. the first one from client to server has SYN flag set
[9:19] <anonymouse> an attack is to send an immense amount of spoofed SYN packets to you
[9:20] <anonymouse> and your machine must track them all in case they are real connections
[9:20] <anonymouse> you run out of TCP stack space, and poof, Denial of service
[9:20] <anonymouse> syn cookies are a way to handle a syn attack without using up your own memory and breaking.
[9:23] * guruz (i=guruz@) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[9:25] <_ph00> cool
[9:25] <_ph00> syn cookines enabled
[9:26] <_ph00> I googled a bit and I did figure that out... I wonder why they're not enabled by default
[9:30] <_ph00> on the other hand, I am protected against DoS attack anyway, as I don't run a server...
[9:31] <_ph00> and I'm totally NATed
[9:31] <_ph00> but what the hell, enably syn cookies won't do any damage, I guess
[9:33] <_ph00> back to freenet question: why do my big file insertion attempt keep failing? I do have bandwidth, and I run almost 24/7
[9:33] <anonymouse> i also wonder why they are not on by default
[9:34] <anonymouse> and i don't know for sure about large inserts, except that i think it's a common issue
[9:34] <anonymouse> i don't insert content so i'm about the last person to ask =)
[9:35] <_ph00> you should. we need more content
[9:35] <_ph00> but anyways
[9:35] <_ph00> now another problem
[9:35] * phrosty (n=phrosty@) Quit ("baseball is wrong: man with four balls cannot walk.")
[9:35] <_ph00> after the insertion failed, I tried to delete the file from thaw, and it just won't go away
[9:35] <_ph00> I right click, hit delete... nothing.
[9:36] * sleon sets mode +v scar
[9:36] <sleon> scar: you can talk now
[9:37] <ljn1981> Try reconecting thaw, sometimes it loose it's conneection to the node or something
[9:38] <_ph00> hm... maybe I should fragment big file in a series of .rar, as many ppl do on torrent sites, and I'm thinking about using .rar to help windoze users... but I can rar under linux and winrar won't run under wine. And I don't want to boot windows (eew)
[9:39] <sleon> _ph00: why not zip?
[9:39] <ljn1981> Splitting files is not needed anymore and just increase the chance that part of the whole file fall off of the network
[9:40] <sleon> _ph00: you can define also the size of chunks
[9:41] <_ph00> can you zip in chunks? I thought only rar could do that (but I've not really checked what zip can do)
[9:41] <_ph00> ljn the problem is, if one big file fails the whole shit fails, but is a couple of chunks fail you can retry those only
[9:42] <ljn1981> _ph00: What is thaw saying it's doing with the file?
[9:42] <_ph00> it says "failed"
[9:43] <ljn1981> _ph00: But there is more chunks of the large file for redundance so more chunks can fall out before it become impossible to regenerate it.
[9:43] <_ph00> an no one of the right click option will work, not even force restart
[9:43] <ljn1981> Hmm
[9:43] <ljn1981> Strange
[9:43] <_ph00> ok, then I would upload one big file... if that worked
[9:43] <_ph00> OK I "kinda" fixed that
[9:44] <_ph00> I deleted downloads.dat.gez
[9:44] <_ph00> gz
[9:44] <ljn1981> You could try doing it with the queue page on the webinterface instead?
[9:44] <_ph00> now, lt's try another upload
[9:45] <ljn1981> Always try what you want to do on the queue page before doing something like deleting that if it's possible, thaw still got a few issues but most things tend to work ok on the queue page even if they don't in thaw
[9:45] <_ph00> it's kinds the same thing I guess, when I started an upload with thaw, it showed up on the queue page, and it kept going even if thaw wasn't running, so I guess that is just an interface to the freenet insert/fetch funcion
[9:46] <_ph00> but OK, I'l try using the queue page directly
[9:46] <ljn1981> Exactly
[9:47] <ljn1981> The node does pretty much everything clients used to do in earlier freenet versions but clients are nice interfaces even if they're only the kind for up-/down-loading
[9:56] <ljn1981> Someone remind me not to think about code at 3 in the morning...
[9:58] <ljn1981> I wanted a stat for how much the nodes location have changed over the session and decided against it on CPU and RAM grounds because I wanted to do a list of some kind for it. Nothing to prevent me from just updating a variable each time the location change...
[10:06] * _ph00 (n=z@) Quit ("whatever")
[10:07] * _ph00 (n=z@) has joined #freenet
[10:12] * TheBishop_ (n=bishop@) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[10:16] * toad_ (n=toad@) has joined #freenet
[10:16] * ChanServ sets mode +o toad_
[10:16] <ljn1981> Hey toad_
[10:17] * TheBishop_ (n=bishop@) has joined #freenet
[10:19] * Zincoid (i=Zincoid@) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[10:41] * Plutonic (n=chatzill@) has joined #freenet
[10:46] * Plutonic (n=chatzill@) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.7/2006090918]")
[10:49] <ljn1981> Guh
[10:49] <ljn1981> Too early to code it seem...
[10:54] * bjck2 (n=arsenyk@) has joined #freenet
[10:55] <_ph00> to late at 3AM, too early at 1 PM... say that you don't want to do it
[10:55] <_ph00> :P
[10:57] <ljn1981> Heh
[10:57] * dodo_ (n=alex@) has joined #freenet
[10:58] <_ph00> I got another problem here: I'm trying to insert a file using the queue page, so I browsed to the file and hit insert, and now it looks like stuck, the browser has been active for several minutes, maybe 20, but the queue page still show nothing in the upload queue, looks like when you try to open a heavy page on a bad connection, keeps saying that it's working but it doesn't seem to get anywhere
[10:58] <_ph00> I got another problem here: I'm trying to insert a file using the queue page, so I browsed to the file and hit insert, and now it looks like stuck, the browser has been active for several minutes, maybe 20, but the queue page still show nothing in the upload queue, looks like when you try to open a heavy page on a bad connection, keeps saying that it's working but it doesn't seem to get anywhere
[10:59] * OK_Computer (i=OK_Compu@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[11:00] <_ph00> oops, sorry for the double post, it looked like half of it was gone the first time
[11:02] <toad_> hmmm
[11:02] <toad_> have i broken inserts somehow?
[11:03] <_ph00> I must be doing something wrong here
[11:03] <sleon> _ph00: and can you insert with thaw?
[11:03] <toad_> no, apparently inserts are working ...
[11:03] <toad_> maybe not queued ones?
[11:03] <_ph00> I go to the queue page, browse to the file and hit insert, that's all. but it gests stuck, it doesn't even show up in the upload queue
[11:03] <toad_> are you folk using 981?
[11:04] <toad_> or 980?
[11:04] <sleon> 977
[11:04] <toad_> _ph00: ?
[11:04] <_ph00> sleon apparently not. my thatw inserts keep failing
[11:04] <sleon> _ph00: OH!
[11:04] <toad_> sleon: so you have no right to complain then :)
[11:04] <_ph00> toad_ 981
[11:04] <sleon> hihi
[11:04] <toad_> _ph00: how are you browsing?
[11:04] <toad_> using the page or the browser box?
[11:05] <_ph00> firefox, fproxy, queue page, 'browse' button
[11:05] <_ph00> there are two. the fisrt (left) one
[11:05] <_ph00> that's a browser box
[11:05] <toad_> hmmm
[11:05] <toad_> what if you use the second?
[11:05] <_ph00> I tried the other browse button but it gets stuck.
[11:05] <toad_> if you use the first you can get browser issues
[11:06] <toad_> e.g. it takes ages to upload it from the browser
[11:06] <_ph00> the second doesn't go enywhere. it keeps showing "busy" for a long time
[11:06] <_ph00> gonna try again...
[11:07] * toad_ queues something from the second button, no problems
[11:07] <toad_> at what point do you get problems with it?
[11:07] <_ph00> well it worked
[11:08] <_ph00> I got it in the queue using the page browser
[11:08] <_ph00> but the box browser is still a problem. not a real problem as long as the page browser works, anyway
[11:09] <_ph00> maybe it got stuck before beecause I was trying to do several things at once in the browser. when I stopped all the tabs and re tried, then it worked
[11:10] <toad_> okay so the page browser works?
[11:10] <_ph00> it's in the queue now but it shows progress 'unknown'. but of course, it's been there just for some seconds
[11:10] <toad_> but the box browser doesn't?
[11:10] <_ph00> yes
[11:10] <toad_> yeah, it'll move on
[11:10] <_ph00> page browser OK, box browser not
[11:10] <toad_> ok
[11:11] <toad_> are you sure that's not a browser problem? it can take ages to shift a large amount of data that way
[11:11] <_ph00> hm... maybe
[11:11] <_ph00> gonna try with another browser
[11:11] <toad_> is the node running locally?
[11:11] <sleon> _ph00: ... try 1 byte file
[11:11] <_ph00> yes
[11:11] <toad_> hmmm
[11:11] <_ph00> 1 byte file it is
[11:14] * toad_ heh spoon bending ...
[11:15] <toad_> bbiab
[11:17] <_ph00> a 2 byte file go in the queue in a couple of seconds, both of firefox and konqueror
[11:18] <_ph00> so we can say "size *does* matter"
[11:18] <_ph00> :P
[11:18] * dodo_ (n=alex@) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
[11:22] <ljn1981> :P
[11:25] <_ph00> my queued file is still on progress "unknown": how long should it take before it actually starts inserting?
[11:29] * extratix (n=TEST@) has joined #freenet
[11:30] * extratix (n=TEST@) has left #freenet
[11:30] * bjck2 (n=arsenyk@) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
[11:32] <droden> ph00, depends.
[11:39] <ljn1981> Why is it location chages never happen when you are waiting for them,....
[11:40] <ljn1981> Or anything somewhat random that is part of a test for that matter...
[11:52] <ljn1981> Gah
[11:52] <ljn1981> I keep making small stupid mistakes
[12:06] <TheSeeker> hmm, I've swapped 12 times now, with 11h uptime.
[12:06] <nextgens> hi
[12:07] <nextgens> toad_> yes, you've broken them ...
[12:07] <ljn1981> I'm just waiting for one swap to occure here..
[12:07] <TheSeeker> that's with nearly 1500 noSwaps, and over 13k RejectedAlreadyLocked
[12:07] <nextgens> toad_> inserts wich were on the global queue (inserted with thaw) have been marked as failed when I updated to 981
[12:07] <nextgens> toad_> I can produce the revelant parts of downloads.dat if required
[12:08] <nextgens> toad_> btw I've spoted why fec libs aren't loading
[12:08] <nextgens> and I have a working version here
[12:08] <nextgens> it's our fault
[12:08] <ljn1981> :D
[12:08] <nextgens> my fault more specifically
[12:08] <ljn1981> YAY a swap
[12:08] <TheSeeker> oops :x
[12:09] <TheSeeker> ljn1981: hmm, I have 13 swaps now, I wonder if we swapped? ;)
[12:09] <ljn1981> possibly
[12:09] <ljn1981> In any case the code I was testing is not working
[12:09] <TheSeeker> :(
[12:10] <ljn1981> This is stupidity at a new level for me.....
[12:11] <ljn1981> I put the call to do the comparison right after the call that change the thing I want to track.
[12:13] <ljn1981> Now to wait for another swap completion....
[12:17] <TheSeeker> doh
[12:26] * Werdna (n=Andrew@) has joined #freenet
[12:32] * tooom_ (n=toom@) has joined #freenet
[12:36] * tooom (n=toom@) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
[12:37] * tooom_ is now known as tooom
[12:37] <ljn1981> Is there some easy way to provoke a swap?
[12:40] * greycat (i=rfc1413@) has joined #freenet
[12:46] * davatt0r (i=dav@) has joined #freenet
[13:04] <ljn1981> :D
[13:04] <ljn1981> TheSeeker: Mmore stuff for you now.
[13:05] <TheSeeker> ljn1981: manually set your node's location while shut off to be on the opposite side of the circle than it's at now?
[13:06] <TheSeeker> ljn1981: not until it's been committed ;)
[13:06] <ljn1981> TheSeeker: Not sure that'll work now the ref is signed, dunno.
[13:06] <ljn1981> Well I got my swap after abouot 20 mins and it works :P
[13:06] <TheSeeker> what does it do now?
[13:06] <ljn1981> Yeah it's just being slow here, the machine is way overworked
[13:07] <ljn1981> track change in location for the session and some stuff with swaps and location change per minute
[13:07] <TheSeeker> neato :D
[13:08] * Werdna explodes.
[13:09] * mario69 (n=nn@) has joined #freenet
[13:09] <ljn1981> Eek!
[13:09] * ljn1981 hides
[13:09] <TheSeeker> one of the things Im most concerned about is the amount of 'location drift' seen by a node... one that's just started makes sense to move around a lot... but if you've been up for a long time, I think a drastic change in location would be very harmful to the network.
[13:11] <mario69> hello, is going directly from 977 to 981 safe, or is it better to go through 979? My node sort of gives me two options now.
[13:11] <ljn1981> TheSeeker: Exactly, which is why I want to track it.
[13:12] <ljn1981> Won't be wastig CPU and RAM on tracking it for the past x hours though, session is easier to do cheap.
[13:12] * haplo (n=e@) has joined #freenet
[13:13] <haplo> this installer thing is wack. can't i just download a single .jar like back in the good old days?
[13:13] <greycat> you can download 2 jar files, yes.
[13:13] <greycat> http://downloads.freenetproject.org/alpha/freenet-r10535-snapshot.jar
[13:13] <TheSeeker> ljn1981: is that a running sum of the distance moved each swap, or the absolute distance between "starting position" and "current position" ?
[13:13] <greycat> http://downloads.freenetproject.org/alpha/freenet-ext.jar
[13:14] <TheSeeker> 10536 has more nifty stats
[13:14] <greycat> Then generate the config file, and then: LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.4.1 java -client -Xdebug -Xmx128M -cp freenet-ext.jar:freenet.jar freenet.node.Node
[13:15] <haplo> thx greycat
[13:15] <ljn1981> TheSeeker: Each time a swap is completed the differece between the old and new location is added or substracted from the current contents of the variable, it start at 0.0 so the number is how far we are from where we were when the session started and in which direction
[13:18] <TheSeeker> ljn1981j: directional sitance measurement algo is one of the things I wanted to write, but got too lazy :P it was required for my sim tests I wanted to do though...
[13:18] <TheSeeker> *distance
[13:19] * Zothar_Work (n=chatzill@) has joined #freenet
[13:19] <_ph00> OT: http://infohost.nmt.edu/~val/tcpip.html
[13:19] <ljn1981> Hmm
[13:20] <ljn1981> I think CIA might have died, there were no commit message on here and the page is not loading
[13:21] <ljn1981> Heh
[13:22] <ljn1981> _ph00: What is it?
[13:22] <_ph00> the tcp/ip drinking game
[13:22] <ljn1981> Scary
[13:23] <TheSeeker> *boggle* http://rfc.sunsite.dk/rfc/rfc1149.html
[13:24] <ljn1981> TheSeeker: Ah yes, the infamous aprils fool type of RFC with the carrier pigeons.
[13:24] <ljn1981> The scary thing is someone did test it :P
[13:24] <haplo> gray: that worked nicely, thanks
[13:24] <haplo> duhh
[13:24] <haplo> greycat: that worked nicely, thanks
[13:24] <haplo> greycat: although i'm not sure what i'm supposed to put in the config file beyond the defaults that freenet created
[13:25] <_ph00> avian carriers?!?
[13:25] <_ph00> birds?
[13:25] <_ph00> did ppl actually think that was serious?
[13:26] <mario69> prioritisation by pecking order is a good laugh, though :-)
[13:26] <haplo> someone implemented the Evil Bit rfc
[13:26] <_ph00> no... the third paragraph is too obvious
[13:28] <ljn1981> _ph00: RFC: Nah, but there is one every/most years as a joke
[13:29] <_ph00> cool. avian carriers.
[13:30] <_ph00> what could be a geeky name for packet sent by slingshot?
[13:30] <_ph00> elastci powered transportation?
[13:30] <_ph00> EPT
[13:30] <ljn1981> Don't know but you won't get much in the way of distance between hubs :P
[13:30] <mario69> talk about abusive pings, then :)
[13:31] <ljn1981> Or rather you'd need a bunch of repeaters
[13:31] <ljn1981> mario69: Nice one
[13:31] <mario69> :)
[13:33] <ljn1981> Duh, think my code is slightly broken...
[13:34] <_ph00> another OT: where do I get some good lists of video streams?
[13:34] * railk (n=railk@) has joined #freenet
[13:34] <_ph00> yeak. democracy player. (duh)
[13:35] <TheSeeker> http://klubkev.org/~ksulliva/rfc-april1/
[13:37] <_ph00> and yet another OT, how do I tell apt where the keys are? (i get gpg errors on update)
[13:38] * Werdna (n=Andrew@) Quit (Connection timed out)
[13:41] * kvsari (n=kvsari@) Quit ("BitchX-1.0c18 -- just do it.")
[13:42] <mario69> 979 logged: Failed to load native FEC: java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError at freenet.client.StandardOnionFECCodec.<init>(StandardOnionFECCodec.java:140)
[13:42] <mario69> Caused by: java.lang.NullPointerException at com.onionnetworks.util.NativeDeployer.findLibraries(NativeDeployer.java:140)
[13:46] <nextgens> hi
[13:47] <ljn1981> lo
[13:48] <ljn1981> TheSeeker: swapsPerNoSwaps should work now too.
[13:54] <_ph00> I hate those jerks on #debian. I never get an answer there. well, almost never </whiniing>
[13:54] <Zothar_Work> _ph00: I assume you know they're not using freenode anymore...
[13:55] <_ph00> zothar, they are: join #debian
[13:55] <_ph00> maybe that's not the official #debian
[13:55] <_ph00> but it still have ~600 connected users 24/7
[13:56] <Zothar_Work> It's not the official one; that's on OFTC or some such letter combo. irc.debian.org will take you there IIRC.
[13:57] <_ph00> OK, I'll try to ask here (OT again, sorry) I did install a couple of appt they told me I needed (GPG errors on apt-get update) and I thinnk the key should be in my /home/<user> dir, now the problem is how do I tell apt where the keys are?
[13:57] <nextgens> irc.debian.org is an alias for irc.oftc.net.
[13:57] <_ph00> I'll try irc.debian.org, thx zothar
[13:57] * nextgens will create irc.freenetproject.org
[13:57] <nextgens> pointing to freenode
[13:57] <Zothar_Work> nextgens: good plan
[13:58] <_ph00> irc.oftc.net then. the important thing is to skip that freenode #debian channel, it's full with "linux snobs"
[13:58] <_ph00> cool idea irc.freenetproject.org
[13:59] <toad_> hi
[13:59] <_ph00> hi batrax
[13:59] <_ph00> (= "frog-like" in latin, or something like that)
[14:00] <nextgens> done
[14:00] <toad_> nextgens: 980 broke KSKs. 981 fixed them.
[14:00] <ljn1981> lo
[14:01] <nextgens> toad_> 981 has broken my global queue inserts
[14:01] <toad_> nextgens: you fixed it?
[14:01] <nextgens> nope
[14:01] <toad_> nextgens: FEC i mean? cool!
[14:01] <nextgens> ah, I've spotted the problem
[14:01] <nextgens> it's not fixed yet
[14:01] <toad_> nextgens: I'd be delighted to see the relevant parts of downloads.dat
[14:01] <nextgens> but yes, I know what it is
[14:02] <toad_> nextgens: but I do think 981 fixed KSK inserts
[14:02] <toad_> ljn1981: I've done that ...
[14:03] <nextgens> hmm, how to give them to you without compromizing my anonymity
[14:03] <ljn1981> toad_: Done what?
[14:03] <toad_> <TheSeeker> one of the things Im most concerned about is the amount of 'location drift' seen by a node... one that's just started makes sense to move around a lot... but if you've been up for a long time, I think a drastic change in location would be very harmful to the network.
[14:03] * SinnerG (i=SinnerG@) has joined #freenet
[14:03] <toad_> location churn may be harmful, but we have a lot of network churn
[14:03] <toad_> network churn -> location churn
[14:03] <TheSeeker> hmm, none of my queued inserts seem to have broken ... then again, they are large, and still in-progress... so there's been no metadata generation...
[14:03] <toad_> mario69: go straight to 981
[14:03] <toad_> nextgens: where's the tarball kept? for haplo
[14:04] <nextgens> http://downloads.freenetproject.org/alpha/installer/freenet07.tar.gz
[14:04] <toad_> yay CPIP
[14:04] <_ph00> I'm trying to connect to irc.freenetproject.org but tor is banned, so I will need some cloak or something, a way to make it less easy to see where I am (no problem if the chan ops, staffers etc can see that)
[14:05] <TheSeeker> :)
[14:05] <toad_> ljn1981: there are at least 3 a year now aren't there? (april fool's RFCs)
[14:06] <nextgens> toad_> http://code.bulix.org/ayxftc-18555
[14:06] <nextgens> I've mangled the filename
[14:06] <nextgens> but there is no / in it
[14:06] <ljn1981> toad_: http://klubkev.org/~ksulliva/rfc-april1/
[14:07] <nextgens> _ph00> it's only a CNAME record to freenode
[14:07] <toad_> nextgens: good idea re irc.freenetproject.org
[14:07] <toad_> nextgens: you sure it was 980 that broke your inserts, not 981?
[14:07] <nextgens> and it will need some time to spread accross dns servers
[14:07] <_ph00> so if I connect there and join #freenet I will get to this channel anyway?
[14:07] <nextgens> toad_> I doubt that 980 did
[14:07] <toad_> nextgens: what's the problem?
[14:07] <nextgens> _ph00> yep
[14:08] <toad_> <nextgens> hmm, how to give them to you without compromizing my anonymity
[14:08] <nextgens> toad_> the putfailed error
[14:08] <toad_> nextgens has anonymity ? when did this happen?
[14:08] <nextgens> well you could match the filename and my frost id
[14:08] <nextgens> :p
[14:08] <_ph00> irc.oftc.net won't let me join #debian. tor banned there too. This tor banning thing is getting annoyng. I unerstand that's because of trolls using tor, but banning tor everywhere amy be exactly what they are trying to get
[14:09] <nextgens> I'm using the cvs version of frost : I do have an alternate id
[14:09] <toad_> oh
[14:09] <toad_> it's because they're being inserted as CHK@coinCoin/<filename> ?
[14:09] <nextgens> yes
[14:09] <toad_> we need a Filename: field in ClientPut's
[14:09] <toad_> and if it's present we need to insert a single-file manifest with that filename in
[14:10] <nextgens> btw coinCoin/ has been added by thaw
[14:10] <toad_> right
[14:10] <toad_> okay
[14:10] <toad_> that's been on the TODO list for ages
[14:10] <toad_> I can up its priority if it's especially important now
[14:10] <nextgens> the thing is it worked previously
[14:11] <toad_> can even make it back compatible...
[14:11] <nextgens> hence I'm wondering why it doesn't anymore ;)
[14:11] <toad_> it worked previously because we didn't check for meta strings
[14:11] <toad_> now we check for meta strings
[14:11] <nextgens> ok, then I suggest you bump that task's priority up
[14:12] <nextgens> but the most urgent is the CSS bug imo
[14:12] <nextgens> CSS parsing/filtering/sanitizing one
[14:12] <toad_> why is that more important than fixing currently expected behaviour that was recently broken?
[14:12] <nextgens> I can tell you where the fec bug is too if you'd like
[14:12] <toad_> that would be nice
[14:12] <nextgens> but I won't be able to fix it before next week afaik
[14:13] <toad_> which CSS bug?
[14:13] <nextgens> ok, grab an up to date freenet-ext : then
[14:13] <nextgens> mkdir ext
[14:13] <nextgens> cd ext
[14:13] <nextgens> jar xvf ../freenet-ext.jar
[14:14] <nextgens> change lib/native.properties
[14:14] <nextgens> remove all useless lines
[14:14] <nextgens> http://code.bulix.org/sknzxi-18557
[14:14] <nextgens> for instance works
[14:14] <nextgens> then
[14:14] <nextgens> jar cvf ../freenet-ext.jar *
[14:15] <nextgens> and the fec loading problem should have went away
[14:15] <nextgens> at least it works for me
[14:15] <toad_> you don't have ssh access?
[14:15] <toad_> why can't you just do that? :)
[14:15] <nextgens> I do but I lack time
[14:15] <nextgens> :)
[14:15] <toad_> but you just said you'd already done it
[14:15] <nextgens> and it needs to be tested to be win32/x86_64 compatible
[14:15] <toad_> i suppose the problem is fixing it permanently
[14:16] <nextgens> locally yes but it needs testing
[14:16] <nextgens> and deploying a new freenet-ext indeed
[14:16] <toad_> yes i mean fixing it properly
[14:16] <toad_> not having to hand-edit the jar every time you make a new one
[14:16] <nextgens> the CSS bug beeing https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=782
[14:16] <toad_> are the lines for the FEC not being included?
[14:17] <nextgens> there is probably a parse error
[14:17] <nextgens> somewhere
[14:17] <toad_> but ... it's created by jar !
[14:17] <toad_> it's not our fault?
[14:18] <toad_> hmmm
[14:18] <nextgens> anyway, I got to work
[14:18] <ljn1981> Why must you hate me so. *shakes fist at computer* Now there's 3 swaps in 26 mins but when I needed swaps to test new statistics code there were one in that interval if I was lucky....
[14:18] <nextgens> mail me if you need something
[14:18] <nextgens> I can't work and follow irc, sorry
[14:18] <nextgens> :)
[14:19] <toad_> cya
[14:19] <toad_> nextgens: it didn't access a file from the internet
[14:19] <toad_> at least there's nothing in the source to suggest that it did
[14:19] <SinnerG> hmm
[14:19] <nextgens> look better :)
[14:20] <nextgens> it does access it
[14:20] <toad_> in the CSS file
[14:20] <toad_> hrrrrrm
[14:20] <toad_> aha
[14:20] <toad_> ok cya
[14:21] * haplo (n=e@) has left #freenet
[14:28] * timmy2chk (n=Vincent@) has joined #freenet
[14:31] <ljn1981> toad_: When locationswapping, is the list of peer locations sent in the reply containing all peers or only connected peers?
[14:39] * mario69 (n=nn@) Quit ()
[14:49] * mutlimaenaida (n=speaker@) has joined #freenet
[14:49] <mutlimaenaida> hi
[14:49] <mutlimaenaida> who can i trust here?
[14:57] * hdp (n=hdp@) has joined #freenet
[14:57] <TheSeeker> mutlimaenaida: yourself
[14:58] <mutlimaenaida> i only trust myself
[14:58] <mutlimaenaida> but how am i supposed to use freenet if you have to trust someone else?
[14:58] <mutlimaenaida> doesn't that defeat the purpose of anonymity?
[14:58] <TheSeeker> make friends with real life people?
[14:59] <mutlimaenaida> i don't trust them either
[14:59] <vextr> real life people are dangerous.. yes.
[14:59] <TheSeeker> If you don't trust anyone, you'll have a hard time doing anything.
[14:59] <mutlimaenaida> I trust God.
[15:00] <TheSeeker> convince God to start a freenet node, then peer with it.
[15:00] <toad_> the point is it's harder for the bad guys to compromize your pre-existing social network than to compromize an opennet
[15:00] <toad_> because compromizing an opennet is HARD
[15:00] <mutlimaenaida> I trust that people will remain naturally ignorant for at least the next 100 years
[15:00] <toad_> err EASY
[15:00] <toad_> compromizing an opennet is easy
[15:00] <toad_> compromizing social networks is quite possible but it's very expensive
[15:00] <mutlimaenaida> toad_ doubt that, everyone has a price
[15:00] <toad_> mutlimaenaida: sure
[15:00] <vextr> toad: umm.. that's a weird theory. connecting to your pre-existing social network may be just the thing that brings you the heat in the first place.
[15:01] <toad_> mutlimaenaida: the point is, it's *very* easy to break an opennet
[15:01] <mutlimaenaida> vextr yep
[15:01] <mutlimaenaida> toad_ define open net?
[15:01] <toad_> because a) it's harvestable - you can find every node easily, and b) it's very easy to pretend to be multiple nodes
[15:01] <toad_> mutlimaenaida: like freenet 0.5, where the network assigns you connections automatically
[15:02] <toad_> vextr: possibly, but the hope is you have a wider network than just your secret operative working in the pentagon
[15:02] <toad_> vextr: and anyone connecting to him will use hard to catch, high latency, low bandwidth transports
[15:03] <toad_> i'm sorry we can't make everyone automatically anonymous, but it's simply not possible
[15:03] <mutlimaenaida> toad_ nothing is perfect unfortunately, but some things are better than others
[15:03] <toad_> having said that, 0.8 will have premix routing, which should make it much harder for traitors to attack you
[15:03] <toad_> mutlimaenaida: right
[15:03] <vextr> toad: I think it depends on what you're using freenet for. In some situations you may want to explicitly avoid connecting to people you know in the real world.. in others.. you may only want to connect to them.
[15:03] <TheSeeker> 0.8 seems a very very long way off.
[15:03] <toad_> mutlimaenaida: one chinese technician could block freenet 0.5 (or opennet) by harvesting it
[15:04] <toad_> all he has to do is run a node, and find all nodes, and add them to the blacklist
[15:04] <mutlimaenaida> i don't know about freenet or any other anonymous systems yet, i just got started into this
[15:04] <toad_> vextr: "real world" includes the internet
[15:04] <vextr> sure
[15:04] <toad_> vextr: as I've said over and over again, opennet is insecure
[15:04] <toad_> opennet is inherently insecure
[15:04] <toad_> it's dangerously insecure
[15:05] <mutlimaenaida> toad_ i need a ref, but i don't know anyone else who started running freenet
[15:05] <toad_> it being harvestable is the tip of the iceberg
[15:05] <toad_> and 0.8's premix routing will likely only work on darknet
[15:05] <mutlimaenaida> toad_ any solutions?
[15:05] <toad_> mutlimaenaida: connect to people randomly via #freenet-refs (for testing purposes) is the usual answer
[15:05] <toad_> mutlimaenaida: it's not very secure to do that, but everyone does ...
[15:05] <mutlimaenaida> toad_ i don't trust them
[15:06] <ljn1981> Yet the masses want it because they're lazy and don't really care for anonymity.
[15:06] <mutlimaenaida> toad_ i was wondering if you could share your refs?
[15:06] <TheSeeker> toad_: but, since opennet is going to be implemented at some point ... would it be better to find a swapping algorithm that can optimize a randomly connected network ... or would it be better to work on reference-swapping (trading conenctions rather than locations) to *create* a small world network from a randomly conencted one?
[15:06] <toad_> or set up your own little darknet with people you know
[15:06] <toad_> mutlimaenaida: sure
[15:06] <mutlimaenaida> toad_ do it privately please
[15:06] <mutlimaenaida> TheSeeker randomly connected one seems better at first
[15:07] <mutlimaenaida> toad_ join #toadstool please for private msg
[15:07] <toad_> #freenet-refs is just a poor implementation of "randomly connected"
[15:07] <toad_> mutlimaenaida: me and everyone else here :)
[15:08] <toad_> mutlimaenaida: suggest you register with chanserv, or send me an email
[15:08] <toad_> if you send me an email it can even be encrypted
[15:08] <mutlimaenaida> toad_ just connect to toadstool please
[15:14] <ljn1981> bbiab
[15:22] * mutlimaenaida (n=speaker@) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[15:22] * mutlimaenaida (n=speaker@) has joined #freenet
[15:27] <_ph00> freenet crashed
[15:30] <_ph00> remember before, when the box browser couldn't add a large file to the upload queue?, well I checked the queue and that file was uploading twice, showing up two times, so I tried to delete the second one, the one that was till at progress unknown (whileoether was at progres 1.6) and then the queue page should update, but it went to "can't connect", so I tries to go to the fproxy home page, and I got can't connect agaion, so I assumed that freenet h
[15:30] <_ph00> ad crashed (checking if it's up...)
[15:33] <_ph00> no, it's still up. the web inteface was unreachable for a while, that's all
[15:43] * bsmntbombdood (n=gavin@) has left #freenet
[15:51] <CIA-5> ljn1981 * r10539 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Statistics page: Estimate average number of peers per node in the network.
[15:57] <CIA-5> toad * r10540 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/clients/http/DarknetConnectionsToadlet.java: Show the user more information when we fail to add a ref.
[15:58] * Urs_ShPo (n=gaim@) has joined #freenet
[15:59] <CIA-5> toad * r10541 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/node/PeerNode.java:
[15:59] <CIA-5> Better error handling when we fail to add a ref AND always set the end marker to End.
[15:59] <CIA-5> (Means stuff pasted from IRC will no longer fail to verify).
[16:01] <CIA-5> toad * r10542 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/clients/http/Toadlet.java: Doh. Add an HTMLNode version of sendErrorPage.
[16:02] <toad_> and what about 10542?
[16:02] * GrimHunter (n=grim@) has joined #freenet
[16:03] * toad_ wonders if emu will even try, or if it has a race condition...
[16:05] <CIA-5> toad * r10543 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/clients/http/filter/ (CSSTokenizerFilter.java CSSTokenizerFilter.jflex): Don't drop the space between an @import url and its media list.
[16:11] <_ph00> Freenet 0.7 Build #981 r10535
[16:12] <_ph00> why not 543?
[16:12] <_ph00> I just updated
[16:12] <TheSeeker> updated how?
[16:12] <_ph00> ./update.sh testing, then renamed the file to freenet.jar
[16:13] <_ph00> and resterted freenet
[16:13] <_ph00> a
[16:13] <TheSeeker> mirrors are a bit slow to update... if you just fetch freenet-latest you may not get the latest version ... that's whyI build from source (that, and to avoid wrapper issues, and add a stackdump on exit)
[16:13] <_ph00> k
[16:14] <_ph00> then I'll wait some minutes and grab the stable
[16:15] <_ph00> ...in the meantime, I think I'll grab a beer
[16:15] <_ph00> <homer> mmmm... beer...</homer>
[16:16] <ljn1981> Interesting
[16:17] <ljn1981> Either I screwed up something or I swapped location with some node and then swapped back again the same amount
[16:17] <toad_> hmmm
[16:17] <ljn1981> s/amount/distance/
[16:18] <ljn1981> Propably just a coincidece or somethig, I did check the math earlier ad it worked
[16:18] <TheSeeker> ljn1981: only two swaps, and your distance is 0?
[16:19] <ljn1981> TheSeeker: Yeah, the change is 0.0
[16:19] <ljn1981> And 2 completed swaps
[16:20] * hjubal (n=hjubal@) has joined #freenet
[16:20] <TheSeeker> what's the difference between avrPeersPerNodeU and avrPeersPerNodeT ?
[16:21] <ljn1981> Anyone know if we get all a nodes peer locations in a swap or only the connected ones? Or do I need to look it up?
[16:22] <ljn1981> TheSeeker: U is only counting a location once, T count the number of locations we've seen even if we've see some of them before
[16:22] <TheSeeker> PeerNode[] peers = node.peers.connectedPeers;
[16:22] <ljn1981> I'm not sure what to call those stats exactly but I decided on U for unique and T for total.
[16:22] <TheSeeker> seems to say we only use connected peers
[16:23] <ljn1981> k
[16:25] <TheSeeker> It would seem that the number of nodes counted in teh node size estimate only includes nodes from swap attempts that got to the swap or noswap phase...
[16:25] <ljn1981> Yeah
[16:25] <ljn1981> Otherwise we can't be sure it's valid
[16:26] <TheSeeker> why's that?
[16:26] <TheSeeker> How is a swap request that gets past "already locked" any more valid than one that doesn't?
[16:28] <ljn1981> Haven't looked too closely but there are some checks of all kinds of stuff before we actually swap
[16:29] <toad_> already locked is just a protection against doing 2 swaps at once
[16:31] <TheSeeker> In reality, a swap request's contents are inherently 'insecure'... if I hacked my node, I could send any list of peers I wanted to and you couldn't verify it...
[16:31] <nextgens> toad_> I'm wondering, regarding META checks, should the node or thaw be fixed ?
[16:31] <toad_> _ph00: the web interface was unreachable even though freenet was up?! ERRORs in the logfile?
[16:31] <_ph00> hjubal your node looks down to me, and it's still on 977
[16:31] <CIA-5> ljn1981 * r10544 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/clients/http/StatisticsToadlet.java: Changing some UI text a bit.
[16:32] <hjubal> _ph00, yes :(
[16:32] <hjubal> my node uses too much swap
[16:32] <hjubal> I don't know why
[16:32] <hjubal> I'm going to restart it as soon as possible
[16:32] <_ph00> toad_ yes it was unreachable for a couple of minutes, but I checked and freenet did not crash, it stayed up all the time (cheching the loog for errors)
[16:33] <_ph00> toad_ maybe you want to see my wrapper.log (I'm not so good at interpreting it)
[16:33] <CIA-5> toad * r10545 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/clients/http/filter/ (CSSTokenizerFilter.java CSSTokenizerFilter.jflex): Fix some more CSS problems.
[16:33] <Griffon26> hjubal: you probably mean it's using too much memory
[16:33] <hjubal> Griffon26, not sure
[16:34] <Griffon26> hjubal: to the application, there's no difference between swap and physical memory
[16:34] <Griffon26> except for delays
[16:34] <hjubal> Griffon26, sure, but think that until freenet service isn't running everything it's ok
[16:35] <_ph00> goddamnit... even the radio is singing "get a haircut and get a real job"
[16:35] <hjubal> when I start freenet swap starts to grow
[16:35] * rah (n=rah@) has joined #freenet
[16:35] <TheSeeker> ljn1981: This insecurity is one of the reasons I wanted to work out a way of local location 'migration' instead of doing swaps with other nodes... but so far I haven't come up with a nice algorithm that doesn't cause severe clumping at specific locations in the keyspace... :P
[16:35] <Griffon26> hjubal: if freenet just uses a lot of memory, your OS will have no choice but to put things in swap.
[16:36] <hjubal> Griffon26, I know what virtual memory is, I'd like to know if there's a way to solve it
[16:36] <Griffon26> hjubal: how much physical memory do you have?
[16:36] <hjubal> 512
[16:36] <TheSeeker> get more memory than freenet can possiby use ;)
[16:36] <Griffon26> hjubal: what do you have wrapper.java.maxmemory set to in wrapper.conf?
[16:36] <hjubal> 310MB free
[16:37] <Griffon26> TheSeeker: hehe.. good luck on that ;-)
[16:37] <Griffon26> hjubal: you mean to say that you have 310MB of unused physical memory and still a lot of swap in use?
[16:37] <hjubal> Griffon26, 128
[16:38] <TheSeeker> Griffon26: I have 3G ... freenet is currently using ~600MB
[16:38] <_ph00> toad_ I found two errors aroun the time when I had that non-reachable interface problem
[16:38] <hjubal> Griffon26, no, 310MB free, all apps loaded, freenet down
[16:38] <Griffon26> ah, k
[16:38] <_ph00> ERROR | wrapper | 2006/09/28 17:25:10 | JVM appears hung: Timed out waiting for signal from JVM.
[16:38] <_ph00> ERROR | wrapper | 2006/09/28 17:25:11 | JVM did not exit on request, terminated
[16:39] <hjubal> Griffon26, does wrapper.java.maxmemor specify total memory usage?
[16:39] <_ph00> my msg about that problem was timestamped 17:27, and I don't see any other errors right before that
[16:40] <TheSeeker> _ph00: I think he meant the freenet logs, not the wrapper log.
[16:40] <_ph00> last error before those two is timestamped 16:45
[16:40] <_ph00> woops
[16:40] <Griffon26> hjubal: it should I guess. If I keep it on 128, I prevent my system from swapping much. If I set it to 160MB, it starts swapping. So apparently it has some effect =)
[16:40] <_ph00> (checking freenet logs...)
[16:42] <TheSeeker> hmm, things like NPEs should still show up in the wrapper log though, shouldn't they?
[16:42] <_ph00&g