Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
[0:00] <toad_> we should think about providing a request-keys-near-a-given-location mechanism...
[0:00] <sanity> why?
[0:00] <toad_> announcements did the same thing in 0.5
[0:00] <toad_> just to get the node started
[0:00] <toad_> i suppose it's not necessary on 0.7, but it might be helpful?
[0:01] <sanity> i don't understand what it would do or why..?
[0:01] <toad_> it would download one or more keys close to a specified location
[0:01] <sanity> remember, we aren't going to piggy-back the node connection stuff on requests any more as we did before
[0:01] <toad_> of course we are, we have to
[0:02] <toad_> that's a basic part of the algorithm
[0:02] <sanity> nope
[0:02] <sanity> toad_: dijjer doesn't do that
[0:02] <toad_> but that's later on, when you have actual requests
[0:02] <sanity> toad_: it separates out joining from requests
[0:02] <toad_> dijjer is wrong, the algorithm oskar said works is connect-on-success and LRU
[0:02] <toad_> yes, *joining* is separate
[0:02] <toad_> just as announcement was separate in 0.5
[0:02] <sanity> any connection to a new node is "joining"
[0:03] <sanity> a join is like a request, except no data is requested
[0:03] <toad_> has oskar simulated such a thing?
[0:03] <toad_> I don't see why we need to separate them
[0:03] <sanity> none of oskar's simulations *actually* transfer data
[0:03] <sanity> we don't need to separate them, but separation of concerns is a good thing
[0:03] <toad_> so what is the basic algorithm then?
[0:03] <sanity> ok
[0:04] <toad_> from a security perspective there's a clear benefit to using a successful transfer to gain marginal trust
[0:04] <sanity> give me a minute to write it down
[0:04] <toad_> sometimes he called it just "LRU"
[0:04] <toad_> sanity: do all dijjer peers get connected to seed1.dijjer.org?
[0:04] <sanity> toad_: its destination sampling
[0:05] <toad_> sanity: surely we want to skip the first few hops?
[0:05] <toad_> sanity: right, go on
[0:05] <toad_> I interpreted that as "destination of the successful request", as in 0.5
[0:05] <sanity> seed1.dijjer.org gets to choose whether it wants to connect (sometimes it will if is doesn't have enough connections)
[0:05] <sanity> give me a minute...
[0:06] <toad_> okay, so they decide whether to connect based on how close they are to the target, how many connections they have and want, etc
[0:07] <toad_> sanity: i think it's important that 0.7 opennet not be less secure than 0.5 opennet ... otherwise the hoards will kill us
[0:07] <sanity> i don't think it will be
[0:08] <toad_> aren't there security benefits to path folding only on successful transfers ?
[0:09] <toad_> a join request as described on dijjer connects to lots of nodes, some far from the target, some close ... "destination sampling" implies we only connect to the destination, no? i should wait for you to dig out whatever you were going to dig out...
[0:10] <sanity> i'm not digging it out, i'm writing it from scratch
[0:10] <sanity> just hold your horses there for a minute :-)
[0:11] <toad_> If none of these are the case, then we forward the request to the
[0:11] <toad_> closest peer in our routing table to the hash of the block, adding our
[0:11] <toad_> own address to the "forwarders" field of the requestData message.
[0:11] <nextgens> not sure many devs will contribute to the opennet mess though
[0:11] <nextgens> ...
[0:12] <sanity> nextgens: won't be a mess
[0:12] <nextgens> all students are kinda busy when their term start
[0:12] <toad_> If we end up being the "source", meaning that we had the data in our
[0:12] <toad_> dataStore, or if we had to get it from the web server, then we must
[0:12] <toad_> connect to each of the peers listed in the "forwarders" field of the
[0:12] <toad_> requestData message after returning the data. They will also try to
[0:12] <toad_> connect to us because our address will be in the dataSource field of
[0:12] <toad_> the requestSuccessful message.
[0:12] <toad_> path folding, more or less
[0:12] <nextgens> and some, including me, aren't convinced at all by opennet ; Even if I've got nothing else to propose :$
[0:13] <toad_> nextgens: don't you think we need opennet, at some point ?
[0:13] <toad_> nextgens: since we already have a crappy opennet?
[0:13] <sanity> nextgens: we will have to agree to differ on that one
[0:15] <toad_> is dijjer actually working? folk here have said bad things about it ...
[0:15] * ASDFWER (i=asdf3@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[0:15] <nextgens> toad_> no, I'm not convinced we NEED it, I see it as a feature on the wishlist of some people not that concerned by their anonymity
[0:16] <sanity> toad_: it works, more or less, but it has some bugs, including a periodic OOM that takes down the seed node every few days.
[0:16] <toad_> nextgens: people will make their own opennets for the foreseeable future, and they will use them for most of the node on the network
[0:16] <sanity> toad_: really dijjer needs about 10 hours of solid debugging from someone that knows what they are doing
[0:17] <toad_> nextgens: we have to face the reality that people don't have any friends they'd admit to running freenet to
[0:17] <sanity> toad_: and i'm hopeful it will get it from Mason Glaves soon
[0:17] <toad_> nextgens: not at *this stage*
[0:17] <nextgens> :|
[0:18] <nextgens> I'm worried that implementing it could hurt the network
[0:18] <toad_> but if we don't reach critical mass we'll never be able to grow virally in any real way
[0:18] <toad_> of course if we have opennet to reach critical mass we may never grow virally ...
[0:18] <nextgens> from 2 different ways at least
[0:18] <nextgens> 1) the team^^wtoad will spend time on it
[0:18] <toad_> 2) more connection churn ?
[0:18] <sanity> ok, here it is: http://wiki.freenetproject.org/OpennetDesign
[0:19] <nextgens> 2) opennet nodes will be harvestable and if a country decides to "ban" freenet node on sight, it WILL hurt the network
[0:19] <toad_> nextgens: isn't #freenet-refs?
[0:19] <nextgens> yes, and 3) maybe the worst, connection churn
[0:20] <toad_> sanity: I don't see how that will get the long links
[0:21] <toad_> sanity: it'll get plenty of short links, but if you start at roughly X and route towards roughly X you won't see much in the way of long links
[0:21] <toad_> sanity: have you run this by oskar?
[0:21] <sanity> toad: i just wrote it 3 minutes ago!
[0:21] <toad_> granted we don't want many long links, but we do want SOME long links
[0:21] <sanity> toad_: but the basic concept is destination sampling
[0:21] <toad_> well i'm not sure it's what oskar was talking about when he talks about destination sampling
[0:22] <sanity> toad_: argh, i screwed up
[0:22] <sanity> toad_: you are right, it should route towards a random location, *not* its own location
[0:22] <toad_> well if it routes to a random location then we'll get too many long links
[0:23] <toad_> won't we?
[0:23] <toad_> even dijjer has freenet 0.5 style destination sampling!
[0:23] <sanity> wait, painkiller clouding my brain
[0:24] <ljn1981> <nextgens> toad_> no, I'm not convinced we NEED it, I see it as a feature on the wishlist of some people not that concerned by their anonymity <--- My view too.
[0:25] <toad_> ljn1981: i regard it as expedient
[0:25] <toad_> ljn1981: and *hope* that we'll be able to build a darknet on top of it
[0:25] <sanity> toad_: what i'm trying to do is make a "connect" request effectively the same as a request for data, except there is no actual data found or transferred
[0:25] <toad_> frankly i'd prefer that we improve it in other ways to the point that it can grow largely virally, but i'm not sure if that will ever happen
[0:26] <ljn1981> See the hope part there is what really bother me.
[0:26] <toad_> yes but it's there anyway
[0:26] <toad_> it's there _now_
[0:26] <sanity> toad_: wait, pls focus on the algo for a sec
[0:26] <toad_> sanity: well, it needs to be the same distribution as with requests ... here's a question: what impact do local variations in the number of local versus remote requests started have on routing?
[0:27] <sanity> toad_: how about the connect request is initially routed randomly for a few hops, and then it tries to find its way back to the source node - establishing connections along that path
[0:27] <toad_> i was under the distinct impression that what oskar had proved was that if you do destination sampling on successful requests with LRU, it works...
[0:28] <toad_> sanity: ignoring the random routed hops? hmmm
[0:28] <toad_> maybe
[0:28] <toad_> needs to be simulated
[0:28] <sanity> toad_: sorry, i took a strong painkiller about 30 minutes ago, and my brain has now turned to mush
[0:28] <toad_> if we get the link range distribution wrong, we're screwed
[0:28] <toad_> sanity: :|
[0:29] <toad_> well, maybe I need to talk to oskar
[0:29] <sanity> toad_: first fix the wiki page
[0:29] <sanity> toad_: ok, i will try
[0:30] <toad_> sanity: i can see benefits from decoupling it, but i can see some serious costs too
[0:30] <toad_> maximum should be at least 2x desired
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[0:31] <toad_> ljn1981: we have that element of hope _anyway_, as i was saying; right now 95%+ of node connections are established through #freenet-refs
[0:32] <ljn1981> I don't like #freenet-refs or the refs boards on frost either.
[0:32] * toad_ wonders what would happen if a small cluster of nodes spammed join requests ...
[0:32] <toad_> we could limit them to 1 per link per minute or something ...
[0:33] <toad_> ljn1981: true, but they're a reality, and sadly a dominant one right now
[0:33] <ljn1981> But at least those promote the idea of the darknet more than opennet and doesn't provide an easy but bad way out of having to set up connections
[0:33] <sanity> toad_: gah, what i wrote on that wiki page is flawed
[0:33] <toad_> ljn1981: sure, they provide a hard and bad way
[0:34] <ljn1981> Ok I think I'm gettting tired, I forgot to write half that line...
[0:34] <sanity> but it will be a few hours before my brain is unmuddled enough to fix it
[0:34] <toad_> sanity: did you get a response from oskar?
[0:34] <sanity> toad_: no
[0:34] <ljn1981> And the refs things do not take up development time.
[0:34] <sanity> toad_: we need to write down the proposal before we ask him for an opiinon
[0:34] <toad_> sanity: ok
[0:34] <sanity> toad_: but you get the general goal here?
[0:34] <toad_> sanity: we could artificially construct a 1/d distribution
[0:34] <nextgens> [00:32] <@ toad_> | we could limit them to 1 per link per minute or something ...
[0:35] <nextgens> we could use hashcash on the messages
[0:35] <toad_> sanity: we just take the closest node to the target, and we make a series of requests which are themselves distributed 1/d
[0:35] <MakeSpace> re open net: to get few long links and more short, when a connectResponse is returning to the requester, and if a node wants another peer, it signs up to the message randomly with probability dependant on its distance to the requester.
[0:35] <sanity> toad_: why? destination sampling is a nice elegant way to get a 1/d distribution
[0:35] <toad_> sanity: because what you're proposing isn't destination sampling
[0:35] <ljn1981> toad_: Sure it's not a good way either but it at least promote the idea of the right way to do it more than an automated system would.
[0:35] <toad_> sanity: if we artificially construct it, we can be pretty sure it's correct
[0:36] <sanity> toad_: i haven't written my proposal yet. that original thing was screwed.
[0:36] <toad_> but oskar's simulations say that true destination sampling with LRU does work, so we should probably use that for security's sake if nothing else
[0:36] <toad_> nextgens: hashcash on announcements isn't a bad idea, but it requires very tolerant users
[0:37] <sanity> gah, we can't have hashcash
[0:37] <sanity> it is pointless
[0:37] <toad_> it won't deter an attacker who can afford dedicated hardware, that much we do know
[0:37] <sanity> it won't deter anyone
[0:37] <toad_> s/dedicated/custom
[0:38] <toad_> well, here's the argument: path folding (as in 0.5) is expensive to abuse, because they have to fetch something from you before they'll connect to you, or you have to fetch something from them
[0:38] <toad_> announcements, on the other hand, require nothing; they exploit marginal trust
[0:39] <toad_> and they are trivially abused; any measures to limit them to a few per identity are easily avoided by making multiple identities
[0:39] <toad_> the realistic answer is probably to rate limit announcements
[0:39] <sanity> toad_: i think the person initiating the connect messages isn't going to wind up with 1/d links
[0:39] <toad_> don't reject them, just queue them, and use token passing the same way we do for requests
[0:39] <sanity> toad_: they will only get 1/d links when they start connecting to other nodes that are initiating connections to it
[0:40] <toad_> sanity: in the algorithm proposed on the wiki? yes
[0:40] <sanity> toad_: but the same is true of data requests
[0:40] <toad_> sanity: hmmm i don't follow
[0:41] <sanity> wait
[0:41] <sanity> no
[0:41] <toad_> sanity: data requests work because of feedback between the network sending mostly close-to-target reqs to the node, and the node connecting to more specialized nodes for each request...
[0:41] <sanity> crap
[0:41] <sanity> i need to think this through
[0:41] <MakeSpace> another proposal for 1/d links. When the ConnectResponse arrives at the requester, then select from the list of offered nodes to get 1/d
[0:42] <sanity> MakeSpace: yeah, but it should be possible to do this without "artifically" enforcing 1/d
[0:42] <sanity> i just need some time to think about it
[0:42] <toad_> MakeSpace: sure, we can artificially enforce the distribution; it's not like we won't have to do such crap on announcements
[0:42] <sanity> when i'm not high on vicodin
[0:42] <toad_> okay
[0:42] <toad_> talk to you monday?
[0:42] <sanity> toad_: that is when i'm having my operation (i hope) :-)
[0:42] <toad_> tuesday then :)
[0:42] <sanity> toad_: i will email you tomorrow
[0:42] <sanity> toad_: you can read my response monday
[0:43] <sanity> or i may email you later once i can think again
[0:43] <toad_> MakeSpace: if we do it right, we can do it non-artificially, which is much harder to abuse; and we can severely rate limit announcements, which are very easy to abuse
[0:43] <toad_> okay
[0:43] <sanity> toad_: if you think of an approach, feel free to email me
[0:43] <toad_> MakeSpace: by sampling the destination of successful requests
[0:43] <toad_> sanity: apart from the obvious?
[0:44] <toad_> sanity: i mean doing what we did in 0.5, and what i've always assumed oskar meant: connect to the datasource
[0:44] <toad_> okay
[0:44] <toad_> good night folks
[0:45] <MakeSpace> vague proposal: the ability to respond is 1/d limited by crypto. you can only sign one to the list if you can compute some function of your address and theirs...
[0:45] <MakeSpace> cu toad_
[0:45] * toad_ (n=toad@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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[1:03] <_ph00> whern downloading a large file with, if an error " Temporary files error: invalid stored block lengths" pops up towards the ending of the download (more than 98% when last checked, 'failed' with that error at next check...
[1:03] <CIA-5> nextgens * r10505 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/crypt/ (DSA.java DSAGroup.java):
[1:03] <CIA-5> Fix some crypto code:
[1:03] <CIA-5> 1) we were generating the "h" parameter of the group with only a few bytes
[1:03] <CIA-5> 2) we weren't verifying DSA signatures as we ought to
[1:03] <CIA-5> TODO: what about following FIPS-186-3 insteed of the first version ?
[1:03] <CIA-5> Of course it needs to be carefully reviewed... and hasn't been tested ;p
[1:03] <nextgens> I've commited something I'd like to receive feedback on
[1:03] <_ph00> would the almost completely downloaded file get discerded?
[1:04] <_ph00> discarded
[1:04] <_ph00> *
[1:05] <nextgens> bbl
[1:05] <_ph00> the queue page showed 100% completed, but the status said 'failed' and the error message 'Temporary files error: invalid stored block lengths' was showing: would the file get deleted?
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[1:07] * ChanServ sets mode +o toad_
[1:08] <toad_> nextgens: what you are proposing is essentially that we make freenet so desirable that people want to connect to their friends, and then we deprecate #freenet-refs , right?
[1:08] <toad_> ljn1981: you likewise
[1:08] <toad_> all you anti-opennet doubters
[1:08] <_ph00> toad_ , one question
[1:09] <toad_> i'm not sure we can without numbers ...
[1:09] <toad_> _ph00: go on
[1:09] <_ph00> on a large file download using thaw, the queue page showed 100% completed, but the status said 'failed' and the error message 'Temporary files error: invalid stored block lengths' was showing: would the file get deleted?
[1:09] <toad_> it didn't manage to put the file together
[1:09] <_ph00> the guy had just that, but he can't find the file
[1:09] <toad_> it didn't get that far
[1:10] <_ph00> so it's gone? not even there-but-incomplete
[1:10] <_ph00> ok
[1:10] <_ph00> and why could that happen? bad upload to begin with?
[1:10] <toad_> well i dunno if the temp files were gone
[1:10] <toad_> i dunno
[1:10] <toad_> some bug or other, file a bug with full details :)
[1:11] <_ph00> it did fail even on my own box, I tried to re-download right after uploading, it jumped right up to 98%, probably because it was al??ready in my store, but then failed
[1:12] <toad_> hmmm
[1:12] <_ph00> I think we talked about that file once or twice
[1:12] <toad_> might be
[1:12] <toad_> how was it inserted?
[1:12] <_ph00> thaw
[1:12] <toad_> hmmmm
[1:12] <toad_> recently?
[1:12] <toad_> reproducible error?
[1:12] <toad_> can you insert other files successfully?
[1:13] * blibbet (n=blibbet_@) Quit ("Leaving")
[1:13] <MakeSpace> nextgens> trunk/freenet/src/freenet/crypt/DSAGroup.java looks good
[1:15] * toad_ (n=toad@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[1:15] <_ph00> I'm trying to insert another one, but we're talking big files here, several hndred MB, so it takes time. and no, I never completed another upload.
[1:15] <_ph00> maybe I should insert something small, as a test
[1:15] * _ph00 looks for a .pdf to insert
[1:19] <agsarite> lol, lets do risky medical experiments on prisoners in exchange for shorter sentences.
[1:19] * _ph00 inserts a 4MB .pdf
[1:20] <_ph00> well, you would consent to that if you had to face 20 or 30 years
[1:20] <_ph00> I know I would
[1:20] * jLadd (n=jladd144@) has left #freenet
[1:20] <agsarite> you would get, like, the amount of time you would be expected to live normally, multiplied by the probability they're going to accidently kill you.
[1:21] <agsarite> its totally fair.
[1:22] <agsarite> and if you earn more time than your sentence was, you get that time off your next one!
[1:22] <MakeSpace> Hmm... my node spontaneously restarted again...
[1:23] <_ph00> depending on who the subjects are
[1:24] <_ph00> what if a really dangerous guy got relesed early because he had medical experimets done on him, and those experiments fucked up his brain even more, making him, say more violent? or made him litterally fearless?
[1:25] <agsarite> have you seen the cube?
[1:25] <agsarite> now thats the kind of risky medical experimentation i'm talking about!
[1:27] <_ph00> no, what cube?
[1:28] <_ph00> the fluctuating hypercube?
[1:28] <agsarite> they were 3 movies: cube, hypercube, and cube-zero.
[1:28] <_ph00> are they experimenting with cubic suppoitories? (ouch!)
[1:28] <agsarite> people were traped in a maze of cubes, and they had to solve puzzles to escape.
[1:29] <_ph00> where?
[1:29] <agsarite> if they make mistakes, they die in strange and exotic ways.
[1:29] <agsarite> and if they don't make mistakes, they die at the end anyway.
[1:30] <_ph00> like rats, basically
[1:30] <_ph00> bah
[1:30] <_ph00> I guess they didn't tell them at the beginning
[1:30] <_ph00> hey! don't do that, buddy, that deal is a rip off! they said they 'd let me go, but they killed me instead
[1:31] <_ph00> ...anmd how can you talk if you're dead?
[1:31] <_ph00> oh that...
[1:31] <_ph00> that's side effect of the experiments they did on me
[1:31] <agsarite> they supposedly either signed up for it to get out of a life sentence, or they were abducted against their will. either way they had their memories removed so none of them knew why they were there
[1:32] <MakeSpace> interesting... restart happened after a peer tried to connect with an IP v6 address. Disabling the peer, see if that makes my node more stable
[1:32] <_ph00> they still remebered they names, their skills, and that they were prisoners?
[1:33] <agsarite> i think most of them were abducted against their will.
[1:33] <_ph00> makespace how does ipv6 work for you on the 'regular' internet?
[1:33] <_ph00> BRB...
[1:34] <MakeSpace> i don't think my machine talks ipv6. I did just upgrade the OS, so maybe I should go poke at the network settings...
[1:35] <agsarite> i don't think the internet supports ipv6. but i don't really know these things.
[1:36] <agsarite> we were running out of ip addresses and there was a huge push for it, then they invented network address translation, and it seemed like everyone forgot about it.
[1:37] <MakeSpace> I had a peer with only ipv6 addresses. I temporarily removed them.
[1:38] <MakeSpace> the net definately will move IPv6 packets. but not many machines seem ready to talk IPv6 afaik
[1:39] <_ph00> my debian box does
[1:40] <agsarite> i'm not sure i'd want all machines to have unique addresses now. it resembles the plan to have everything on the planet have a unique id too much.
[1:42] <MakeSpace> the logs say "network unreachable" which implies that I have set up my NIC and/or routing tables to only send IPv4 packets.
[1:43] <_ph00> or, that it set that way by default
[1:43] <_ph00> agsarite, yes, I never thought of it that way, but yes.
[1:44] <_ph00> we'll soon get global ID cards
[1:44] <MakeSpace> I am very paranoid about those things. My machines will only accept connections on one port, ssh
[1:44] <_ph00> oops: we already have: passports
[1:44] <agsarite> heh
[1:44] <_ph00> biometric ID on passports is already there
[1:44] <agsarite> i think all new US passports are supposed to have chips in them now.
[1:45] <_ph00> I guess some EU passports does that already
[1:46] <_ph00> don't know about japan, but I think they probably have chip-ID's already
[1:47] <_ph00> in some counntries, there are magnetic band driving licenses, that hold your info on that cradit-card-like strip
[1:47] <_ph00> (I heard that, but I never actually saw one of those)
[1:47] <_ph00> RFID is bad, hm' kay?
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[2:55] <boomerbob> anyone here familiar with fuqid?
[2:55] <boomerbob> how do u configure it for 0.7, there are no settings?
[2:56] <boomerbob> everything says 'for freenet 0.5 only'
[2:56] <agsarite> if its for 0.5 only, then it won't work in 0.7. the protocols have all been rewritten.
[2:56] <boomerbob> i have the new fuqid
[2:57] <agsarite> i don't have any experience with fuqid, in all honesty.
[2:57] <boomerbob> but all the settings relate to 0.5
[2:57] * noggly_ (i=noggly@) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[2:57] <agsarite> probably mostly because i don't use windows.
[2:57] <boomerbob> what else will work instead of fuqid?
[2:57] <agsarite> thaw
[2:57] <boomerbob> this new freenet is terrible
[2:58] <boomerbob> i had 380+ active nodes on the old version, i have 6 here!
[2:58] <agsarite> yes, yes it is.
[2:59] <boomerbob> and fuqid makes it 10 times worse
[3:00] <boomerbob> myusthave been written by the same idiot
[3:23] <boomerbob> anyone use fuqid?
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[4:02] <agsarite> if i think the windows equivalent of 'file:///absolute/filename' should be 'file://c:/absolute/filename' (notice missing slash)
[4:03] <agsarite> but i thnk firefox has 3 slashes.
[4:04] <agsarite> my logic being, file:///absolute/filename will default to the drive of the working directory, and hence be equivalent to the unix filename.
[4:04] <agsarite> 'file:///c:/absolute/filename' appears to be a file named 'c:'
[4:06] <agsarite> maybe i could remap 'c:' to a unix type directory like '/c/', like mingw does.
[4:07] <agsarite> oh, wait, this isn't where i meant to say this.
[4:07] <agsarite> all wells.
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[4:29] <Docta_Z> hello
[4:30] <Docta_Z> anyone there?
[4:30] <MakeSpace> no, i'm no here. why do you ask ;)
[4:30] <MakeSpace> ???
[4:31] <Docta_Z> i was going to be like everyone who's in the united states should support the us pirate party
[4:31] <MakeSpace> ???
[4:32] <_ph00> are you starting US pirate party?
[4:32] <MakeSpace> i am not personally interested in pirating anything
[4:32] <_ph00> that's cool
[4:32] <Docta_Z> its about freedom of information
[4:32] <Docta_Z> there is one comeing up
[4:32] <_ph00> maybe we should start more pirate parties in more countries and connect all of them
[4:33] <_ph00> and make one big world pirate party
[4:33] <Docta_Z> http://pirate-party.us
[4:33] <Docta_Z> there are many pirate partys coming up
[4:34] <_ph00> I think the whole concept of 'pirating stuff' is wrong. Softeware should be freely usable, and people should pay for support only, like they did before bill gates started with the idea of considering software as 'goods'
[4:34] <agsarite> i'm not a US citizen, sorries. It looks like fun, though.
[4:35] <_ph00> so start a prates canediennes le party
[4:35] <_ph00> a mexico piratas el party
[4:35] <_ph00> etc
[4:36] <agsarite> i like a 'world pirate party' better.
[4:36] <_ph00> I thinm I'm gonna try to get a pirate party stared in another EU country, or meybe even a EU pirate party
[4:36] <Docta_Z> agsarite: there might be a party in your city
[4:37] <Docta_Z> **country
[4:37] <_ph00> you have to connect local pirate parties to do that: you can run for office 'worldwide' must be states, countries, regions, provinces, etc
[4:37] <_ph00> can't *
[4:37] <Docta_Z> yup
[4:38] <agsarite> like i was going to vote, let alone run for anything.
[4:38] <_ph00> we could start with tiny town or county or whatever we have in different countries, local pirate parties and run for offices in cities, towns etc
[4:38] <MakeSpace> www.freestateproject.com
[4:38] <Docta_Z> thre is a thing on the site
[4:39] <Docta_Z> wiki that tries to find what the laws are
[4:39] <_ph00> then grow bigger anf go eu countries, eu, while on the other side of the pond you would go north american (including canada and mexico) then pan-american,
[4:39] <Docta_Z> in state
[4:39] <agsarite> once things get big enough to matter, they always seem to cave into political pressure and become the same as everything else, with a different name.
[4:39] <_ph00> in the meantime something should get started in autralia too, and maybe connect to asia...
[4:39] <_ph00> the world pirates!
[4:39] <_ph00> well... that's a mjor problem
[4:40] <Docta_Z> http://www.pp-international.net/
[4:40] <_ph00> major
[4:40] <_ph00> a fast growing party, which is alternative to the traditional ones
[4:40] <_ph00> if that gets popular consent
[4:41] <_ph00> it will attract a lot of assholes who don't give a damn for the basic pirate principles, and only want to get political carreers started
[4:41] <_ph00> that the main problem, I suppose
[4:41] <_ph00> basically the same things that happens to *any* party
[4:42] <_ph00> aaaa.... I'm comin up, so you better get this party started....
[4:42] <Docta_Z> lol
[4:42] <_ph00> (a song, was that, but who sang that?
[4:43] <_ph00> that could be a good campaign
[4:43] <_ph00> 'let's get the party started'
[4:43] <_ph00> run 'talk like a pirate' day
[4:44] <_ph00> dress like a pirate happenings
[4:45] <_ph00> hm... then we 'll have pirate music, pitae clothes, pirate goods, with the pirate logo verywhere, and the whole thing will turn in a big joke
[4:45] <_ph00> nah
[4:45] <_ph00> I don't like that
[4:45] <_ph00> but 'let's get this party started' was good
[4:46] <MakeSpace> the party song should be 'happy birthday to you' the most pirated song ever
[4:47] <Docta_Z> brb going to light somethng on fire
[4:47] <_ph00> something funny?
[4:56] * Skiver (n=Skiver@) Quit ("Leaving")
[5:29] <Docta_Z> yum that was good
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[9:16] <sleon> what is the name of the guy again who has written thaw ?
[9:19] * sleon sets mode +v Tritman
[9:22] <Tritman> sleon, I think it's Jflesch
[9:23] <Tritman> but I don't have news from him since weeks
[9:27] <sleon> i am trying to get into his one-socket-design :)
[9:31] <Tritman> I can't help, I've seen him one time on IRC since a month, hence ...
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[9:54] <ljn1981> toad_> nextgens: what you are proposing is essentially that we make freenet so desirable that people want to connect to their friends, and then we deprecate #freenet-refs , right?
[9:54] <ljn1981> <toad_> ljn1981: you likewise
[9:55] <ljn1981> toad_: I don't know, I just don't like opennet and don't mind waiting longer for the masses
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[10:11] <nextgens> sleon> Jerome Flesch
[10:11] <nextgens> hi
[10:11] <nextgens> sleon> he is doing an internship atm and doesn't have access to the internet at home :/
[10:12] <Tritman> hi
[10:12] <nextgens> sleon> the one socket design is kinda basic
[10:12] <nextgens> you take a lock, enqueue futher tasks if the lock is already taken
[10:13] <nextgens> but I heard there is a bug in that's implementation :/
[10:13] <sleon> s4e
[10:13] <sleon> yes
[10:14] <sleon> nextgens: and i am seeking for it :)
[10:14] <sleon> reading the code right now
[10:14] <sleon> it is really good written :) yummy
[10:16] * nextgens is gonna spend more time on the DSA code
[10:17] <nextgens> our dsa groups aren't large enough afaik :/
[10:17] <nextgens> but changing them would mean rekeying
[10:17] <sleon> nextgens: are you that good into freenet now ? wow!
[10:18] <nextgens> what do you mean that good ? :p
[10:18] <sleon> na, that you can say such smart things as toad :)
[10:18] <nextgens> the crypto code is understandable by everyone who wants to have a look at it
[10:20] <nextgens> toad is far better than me, he is a professional programmer and a very skilled debugger
[10:20] <nextgens> whereas I'm kinda a java n00b ;)
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[10:28] * ChanServ sets mode +o toad_
[10:28] * toad_ (n=toad@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[10:28] <nextgens> hey toad
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[10:29] <sbc> morning all.
[10:29] <nextgens> he had the ears whistling :)
[10:36] * mazzanet (n=mazzanet@) Quit ("Reboot")
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[10:44] <CIA-5> nextgens * r10506 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Create a FreenetFilePersistentConfig class so that our config. framework is independant from a Node object
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[11:08] <CIA-5> nextgens * r10507 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/ (config/FreenetFilePersistentConfig.java node/Node.java): Cleaner design for FreenetFilePersistentConfig : we don't need the node object at all in fact
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[11:17] <Beta_M> nextgens: is there something wrong with the page that you've inserted?
[11:18] <Beta_M> it was working 10 mins ago, but now it's fubar
[11:19] * shuttler (n=cc@) Quit ()
[11:20] <nextgens> the page I've inserted ?
[11:20] <nextgens> where ?
[11:20] <Beta_M> you know the NIM one
[11:21] <nextgens> I haven't touched it for ages
[11:21] <Beta_M> it only loads as SSKasdf/nim-1/ but USKasdf/nim/1/ becomes /9/ and then DNF's
[11:21] <Beta_M> weird
[11:32] * sTAy (n=malten@) Quit ()
[11:51] <CIA-5> nextgens * r10508 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/ (config/FreenetFilePersistentConfig.java crypt/DSAGroup.java): indent
[11:52] <nextgens> ok, now let's see StS
[12:01] <_ph00> can someone plz try to fetch this 4 MB .pdf file, just to see if it was correcly uploaded? it's an e-book about linux
[12:01] <_ph00> http://127.0.0.1:8888/CHK%40nu71xm3zCLR~wV9eCvIM-4fiCCAmrxwmnf8HemFRco4,KwAaPPUbI1VxXnM8ZgFyUy4AbvxpOtELuG2pKhhNvSg,AAEC--8
[12:01] <_ph00> oops
[12:01] <_ph00> CHK%40nu71xm3zCLR~wV9eCvIM-4fiCCAmrxwmnf8HemFRco4,KwAaPPUbI1VxXnM8ZgFyUy4AbvxpOtELuG2pKhhNvSg,AAEC--8
[12:01] <_ph00> (no 127.0.0.1:8888)
[12:01] <_ph00> (I guess you *could* use that anyway...)
[12:01] <_ph00> am I still connected?
[12:01] <_ph00> ping
[12:01] <Griffon26> nope, not me =]
[12:02] <Griffon26> yes, you are
[12:03] <Griffon26> _ph00: what's with the URL encoding?
[12:03] <_ph00> what?
[12:04] <_ph00> http://127.0.0.1:8888/CHK%40nu71xm3zCLR~wV9eCvIM-4fiCCAmrxwmnf8HemFRco4,KwAaPPUbI1VxXnM8ZgFyUy4AbvxpOtELuG2pKhhNvSg,AAEC--8
[12:05] <Griffon26> attempting to download
[12:05] <_ph00> cool
[12:05] <_ph00> thx
[12:05] <Griffon26> weird filename
[12:06] <_ph00> what? learn linux in 24 hours
[12:06] <_ph00> the small print read 'yeah, right'
[12:06] <_ph00> :P
[12:07] <Griffon26> it's using nu71xm3zCLR~wV9eCvIM-4fiCCAmrxwmnf8HemFRco4.pdf as the filename
[12:08] <_ph00> oh yeah?
[12:08] <_ph00> I didn't ch...
[12:08] <_ph00> I did
[12:08] * Beta_M (n=Somebody@) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
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[12:08] <nextgens> _ph00> do you have the copyright and are you allowed to share it ?
[12:08] <_ph00> I changed it from 'ebook - learn linux in 24 hours <something more>.pdf
[12:08] <_ph00> to learn linux in 24 hours.pdf
[12:09] <_ph00> I don't know, I found it on the internet
[12:09] <nextgens> so the answer is likely to be no :)
[12:09] <nextgens> please stop advertizing it here
[12:10] <_ph00> ok
[12:10] <_ph00> I get it, we have already problems enough
[12:15] <_ph00> oh and btw, I uploaded that file myself, not asking any freenet people before doing that, and surely not 'as a freenet involved person' but only 'as myself'
[12:16] <_ph00> (and OK, not advertising files without checking legal stuff any more)
[12:19] <_ph00> bbl
[12:19] * _ph00 is now known as ph00_away
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[12:29] <CIA-5> volodya * r10509 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/clients/http/WelcomeToadlet.java: Fix the error reporting when NIM failed (box wasn't shown)
[12:37] <Tritman> bbl
[12:37] <CIA-5> volodya * r10510 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/ (5 files in 4 dirs): KSK does not silently remove slashes, but rather generates InserterException.META_DATA_NOT_SUPPORTED
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[12:58] <nextgens> I hardly understand what ET means ... even if I'm french :/
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[13:32] <Griffon26> nextgens: I think he's from another planet
[13:39] <MakeSpace> hi folks.
[13:41] <MakeSpace> My node spontainiously restarted again. Grr... I thought it was an IPv6 peer... I temporarily took them off my peer list. No joy...
[13:47] <MakeSpace> Hmmm... this time both of my nodes restarted. Last time it was only the main node.
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[13:57] <MakeSpace> the wrapper log was last written around 1830 yesterday for the main node, and 0530 yesterday for my second node
[13:57] <boomerbob> erm...i just shut down freenet, but how do u resart it, i can find any icon?
[13:57] <MakeSpace> run.bat if you are on windoze
[13:57] <nextgens> there should be icons
[13:58] <nextgens> when have you installed it ?
[13:58] <MakeSpace> in the freenet directory
[13:58] <boomerbob> its not there
[13:58] <MakeSpace> i have never installed it on windoze
[13:59] <MakeSpace> sorry, I take it back about run.bat. I have no idea how to start it on windoze
[13:59] <MakeSpace> nextgens> andy ideas about my node restarts?
[14:00] <nextgens> MakeSpace> stick your wrapper.log to a pastebin please
[14:00] <MakeSpace> boomerbob> maybe there is something in a benu
[14:00] <boomerbob> i found it, its within another folder, bin / start.cmd
[14:00] <MakeSpace> boomerbob> thanks for the info. now I can help other windoze users.
[14:01] * boomerbob (n=boo@) Quit ()
[14:05] <MakeSpace> nextgens> http://dark-code.bulix.org/vnpf2d-18140 from last two restarts I have logs for
[14:07] <MakeSpace> nextgens> is it OK if I restart the nodes from the command line now?
[14:08] <nextgens> INFO | jvm 2 | 2006/09/23 18:36:41 | Goodbye. from freenet.node.Node@43a4181c (Shutdown from fproxy)
[14:08] <nextgens> it's not a crash
[14:08] <nextgens> well restarting the node using provided scripts shouldn't hurt
[14:08] <MakeSpace> the thing that is weird is that there are no entries from the most recent shutdown. No log entries in wrapper.log for the most recent restarts.
[14:09] <MakeSpace> restarting now
[14:11] <MakeSpace> I do have some java exceptions in my freenet/logs/ logs. None from the most recent restarts. I have a log fine from the previous 15 minutes, but the logs for the 15 including the restart are 0 length
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[14:17] <MakeSpace> I have a bunch of java exception in the logs since the start up
[14:17] <nextgens> MakeSpace> stick them to a pastebin :)
[14:24] <nextgens> bbl
[14:24] <MakeSpace> cu
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[14:24] <MakeSpace> nextgens> http://dark-code.bulix.org/l93umr-18141
[14:25] <hjubal> hi
[14:25] <MakeSpace> hi
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[14:34] <pitibull> hello
[14:34] <pitibull> is someone here?
[14:34] <agsarite> i try not to be.
[14:34] <MakeSpace> hello
[14:34] <pitibull> is some one has a node to exchange
[14:35] <pitibull> im trying freenet for the first time
[14:35] <agsarite> visit #freenet-refs
[14:35] <pitibull> ok thanks
[14:38] <MakeSpace> nextgens> (or anyone) is it normal to see bunches of log lines like: Sep 24, 2006 12:29:54:642 (freenet.io.comm.UdpSocketManager, UdpSocketManager sender thread on port 51728, NORMAL): Dropping unclaimed from 62.107.110.94:33832, lived 30652984ms : packetTransmit {packetNo=31, data=Buffer {1024}, sent=11111111111111111111111111111111, uid=7466866138564827118}
[14:40] * QshelTier is now known as Bombe
[14:40] * Bombe never looks at the log files.
[14:41] * MakeSpace looks everytime the node restarts with out being asked to restart
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[14:51] <TheSeeker> MakeSpace: considering it's "NORMAL" and not "ERROR" ... I'd say, yeah, it's probably normal :P
[14:55] * Bombe (n=bombe@) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[14:55] <MakeSpace> thanks was wondering if it had anything to do with my node spontaineously restarting 2 or 3 times a day
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[15:10] * ChanServ sets mode +o Bombe
[15:20] * pitibull (n=11591043@) Quit (Excess Flood)
[15:28] <hjubal> sometimes I have to restart my box due to swap
[15:28] <hjubal> is there a way to limit memory usage?
[15:29] <MakeSpace> linux has ulimit -- i think thats the right tool, try man ulimit
[15:29] <hjubal> I found instructions about heap size, but I think jvm can allocate more ram
[15:30] <MakeSpace> i think you know more them me. sorry.
[15:31] <hjubal> MakeSpace, don't be sorry, thx for the tip, I'm reading man page
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[16:05] <nextgens> hi
[16:05] <Zothar> hi
[16:06] <MakeSpace> nextgens> started looking at verify() now...
[16:07] * zalamazoo (n=chatzill@) has left #freenet
[16:07] <hook> hello, need some help lease
[16:16] * hook (n=chatzill@) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[16:17] * hook (n=chatzill@) has joined #freenet
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[16:18] <nextgens> hook> hmm ?
[16:19] <hook> hi :-)
[16:23] * ASDFWER (i=asdf3@) Quit (Client Quit)
[16:23] <nextgens> hook> I suggest you try #freenet-fr out :)
[16:25] <hook> yes thx nextgens
[16:25] <hook> :-)
[16:30] <nextgens> svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/svn/trunk/freenet/src/freenet/crypt'
[16:30] <nextgens> svn: emu.freenetproject.org: emu.freenetproject.org
[16:31] <nextgens> hmmmkay
[16:31] <nextgens> may someone try to access https://emu.freenetproject.org/svn/trunk/freenet/src/freenet/ please ?
[16:31] <nextgens> is it working ?
[16:33] <MakeSpace> server certificate failed (prob my browser)...
[16:33] <nextgens> hmm, no that's normal
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[16:34] <MakeSpace> ??? after failing I get could not connect ???
[16:34] * Tritman (i=Tritman@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[16:35] <MakeSpace> no I take that back. I get a page with ]> on it
[16:36] <MakeSpace> fails with konqueror, but works with firefox (now)
[16:37] <Zothar> np here with firefox
[16:38] <nextgens> I've got a DNS problem :<
[16:42] <CIA-5> nextgens * r10511 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/crypt/DSA.java: More work on our DSA code : handle the unlikely case where R or S is equal to zero : retry a new signature with a different K
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[17:43] * jLadd (i=jladd144@) Quit (Client Quit)
[17:46] * FooDerGrosse (n=kevin@) Quit ("W??hlt die PiratenPartei Deutschland!!!")
[17:49] <MakeSpace> interesting. My node restarted (yet again). My guess now is that is has something to do with high cpu load.
[17:54] <nextgens> that's possible
[17:54] <nextgens> the wrapper is monitoring cpu usage
[17:58] * blibbet (n=blibbet_@) has joined #freenet
[18:00] * MakeSpace is away: bbl
[18:01] * Urs_ShPo (n=gaim@) has joined #freenet
[18:17] * MineHaunter (n=van85@) has joined #freenet
[18:26] * gars_toulouse (i=just_a_g@) has joined #freenet
[18:26] <gars_toulouse> Hi
[18:26] <gars_toulouse> I need some key for exchange
[18:28] <gars_toulouse> http://dark-code.bulix.org/1j8zba-18164?raw
[18:28] <nextgens> I suggest you try on #freenet-refs and #freenet-fr insteed
[18:28] <gars_toulouse> Raaa
[18:29] <gars_toulouse> That is write in the topic !!
[18:29] <gars_toulouse> Sorry all
[18:45] <Zothar> nextgens: my recent node restarts have been OOMs
[18:47] * gars_toulouse (i=just_a_g@) has left #freenet
[19:07] * rebo123 (n=rebo123@) has joined #freenet
[19:23] * ljn1981 (i=LJN@) has joined #freenet
[19:24] <ljn1981> Hey guys
[19:40] * MakeSpace is back
[19:53] * ljn1981 (i=LJN@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[20:00] * MikeW (i=Mike@) has joined #freenet
[20:14] <agsarite> yay, it's broken! http://localhost:8888/KSK@smilies-testupload
[20:15] * agsarite pokes the absent toad for telling me i could create a KSK freesite.
[20:19] <rebo123> hi
[20:19] <rebo123> Sending IP address to the NSA?
[20:19] <sanity> rebo123: yeah, we don't want terrorists using it
[20:19] <Bombe> :)
[20:20] <rebo123> phew.
[20:20] <rebo123> Another piece of software free from the terrorist threat :)
[20:21] <rebo123> I have a tiny question..
[20:21] <rebo123> should I configure my firefox in any special way
[20:21] <rebo123> to make it work more efficiently with freenet?
[20:21] <rebo123> I mean caching options, concurrent connections, etc?
[20:21] <sanity> rebo123: http://www.freenethelp.org:14741/SpeedingUpFreenet
[20:22] <rebo123> :)
[20:22] <rebo123> also
[20:22] <rebo123> can I run my own frost-board?
[20:22] <sanity> rebo123: i believe so
[20:22] <sanity> anyone can create a frost board
[20:23] <rebo123> oh
[20:23] <rebo123> so if I just click add new board
[20:23] <rebo123> and/or add new folder
[20:23] <rebo123> everyone will see it?
[20:24] <MineHaunter> no one will see the folder
[20:24] <sanity> rebo123: i think you need to publicize it
[20:24] * sanity isn't a frost expert
[20:24] <MineHaunter> they can see your new board if you attach it to a message
[20:24] <rebo123> How do I publicise it?
[20:24] <MineHaunter> post it to the board 'boards'
[20:25] <MineHaunter> post a new message there and use the command "attach boards"
[20:25] <rebo123> ah.
[20:25] <rebo123> I see lots of messages where they make fun of people
[20:25] <rebo123> and tell them to post their ref#s in signed messages
[20:26] <rebo123> is that the freenet equivalent of rm -rf / ?
[20:28] <MineHaunter> you should post your ref in a signed message so when someone adds you they can reply to you in private
[20:28] <MineHaunter> but this way you give up your anonimity for that frost identity
[20:29] <MineHaunter> either use another identity for normal posting or choose another medium to exchange refs
[20:29] <sanity> personally i wouldn't use frost to exchange refs
[20:29] <rebo123> ok
[20:29] <rebo123> alright
[20:29] <sanity> ideally you should only exchange refs with people you know and trust
[20:29] <rebo123> am I understanding the concept of 'signed' correctly?
[20:29] <sanity> soon we will have opennet which will make all of this a lot easier except for the paranoid
[20:30] <rebo123> Does it mean hashing your message in such a way that it's guaranteed to be written by you?
[20:30] <sanity> rebo123: i don't know what it means in the context of frost
[20:30] <MineHaunter> rebo123: exactly
[20:31] <rebo123> ok
[20:31] <MineHaunter> sanity: will opennet be a distinct network or a node option?
[20:31] <rebo123> What do the green/yellow things mean?
[20:31] <rebo123> like CHECK
[20:31] <sanity> MineHaunter: node option
[20:31] <MineHaunter> k
[20:32] * sbc (n=sbc@) Quit ("Leaving")
[20:33] <MineHaunter> rebo123: you can mark identities bad or good, useful to keep track of trusted people
[20:33] <rebo123> ah
[20:33] <MineHaunter> rebo123: if you mark someone as good, you will be able to send him encrypted messages
[20:33] <MineHaunter> there should be a frost guide somewhere...
[20:34] * Griffon26 (n=griffon2@) Quit ("brb")
[20:35] * Griffon26 (n=griffon2@) has joined #freenet
[20:37] <rebo123> ok :)
[20:37] <rebo123> also, suppose someone tells me a chk@.. address
[20:37] <rebo123> how do I get to it?
[20:40] <MineHaunter> you can use FProxy interface, on the homepage there is a input field to download keys
[20:40] <MineHaunter> there are also third party clients which allow you do download keys
[20:40] <MineHaunter> one of the is fuqid
[20:41] <rebo123> ah
[20:41] <rebo123> should I just google that?
[20:41] <MineHaunter> or as a last resort, you can use telnet interface with the ClientGet command
[20:42] <MineHaunter> fuqid is a windows program, but it runs on wine too
[20:44] * blibbet (n=blibbet_@) Quit ("Leaving")
[20:44] <agsarite> fuqid is evil, in my own extremely biased opinion.
[20:47] <rebo123> ok
[20:47] <rebo123> you say that if one posts their ref in a signed message, they can be replied to in private
[20:47] <rebo123> how do I do this?
[20:48] <MineHaunter> agsarite: why do you think so?
[20:48] <MineHaunter> rebo123: you first have to mark him good
[20:53] <rebo123> I see..
[20:53] <rebo123> ok
[20:53] <rebo123> how do I add a frost board knowing the keys?
[20:53] <rebo123> on the fuqid homepage, there's information about their board
[20:54] <rebo123> the name, the prvkey and the pubkey
[20:54] <rebo123> how do I use this information?
[20:57] <MineHaunter> create a new board with those parameters
[21:00] <hjubal> bye
[21:00] * hjubal (n=hjubal@) Quit ("..3 2 1 ???check inignition and may God's love be with you???..")
[21:00] <rebo123> oh
[21:00] <rebo123> I did.
[21:00] <rebo123> and there are no messages...
[21:19] <rebo123> I have a(nother) question
[21:19] <rebo123> when I add a reply to a frost board topic, will it automatically be propagated through the entire network?
[21:34] * railk (n=railk@) Quit ("Cya, wouldn't want ta be ya!")
[21:35] * railk (n=railk@) has joined #freenet
[21:41] * oCc (n=nodeOne@) Quit ("s?ren")
[21:41] <MakeSpace> rebo123> yes the message will propagate through the network
[21:47] * rah (n=rah@) Quit ("<AND> theres no way im going to invest the time and energy to demonstrate to him how his beleifs are ludicrous and mine are b)
[21:52] * Grizzy (i=Generic@) has joined #freenet
[22:00] <Grizzy> pastebin seems screwed up; where can I paste my ref?
[22:01] <MakeSpace> there is a .ca service like pasebin
[22:07] <Grizzy> thanks. can't figure out how to get it to output the bare file.
[22:08] <MakeSpace> something like foo.ca/raw/bar
[22:09] * blindside2026 (i=Kel@) has joined #freenet
[22:09] <Grizzy> Anyone for key exchange? http://pastebin.ca/raw/181414? (thanks, it worked!)
[22:10] <Grizzy> sorry "ref" exchange
[22:10] * blindside2026 is now known as PraiseChaos
[22:10] <MakeSpace> this isn't the channel to ask for exchanges. please use #freenet-refs
[22:10] <Grizzy> aaah, ok.
[22:10] <MakeSpace> np
[22:10] <Grizzy> can I grumble about bugs?
[22:11] <MakeSpace> they are more likely to get fixed if you just report them rather than 'grumbling' about them ;-). but yes
[22:12] <Grizzy> I really can't get "wrapper" to work; and the shell scripts are weird, with [[ instead of [ . Where's the bug report address/wiki/whatever?
[22:13] <Grizzy> found the bug tracker.
[22:13] <Grizzy> another signup nuisance.
[22:14] <Grizzy> wasn't too painful
[22:16] * SinnerG (i=SinnerG@) has joined #freenet
[22:20] <Grizzy> It IS painful; I didn't have cookies enabled, it didn't tell me, and the registration is messed up.
[22:21] <MakeSpace> cookies are evil. i hate web sites that require them... grrr...
[22:22] <Grizzy> Nobody knows what session cookies are (simply cookies without a date stamp) firefox allows them.
[22:23] <Grizzy> everyone wants to set "permanent" cookies.
[22:23] <Grizzy> "persistent"
[22:23] <Grizzy> I think there's some database update problem; I can't sign in.
[22:24] <MakeSpace> sign into what?
[22:24] <Grizzy> Mantis, the bug database.
[22:25] <MakeSpace> o. Sorry I don't know anything about it. maybe someone else here can volunteer help
[22:26] <MakeSpace> anyone here happen to know how to use automake?
[22:26] <Grizzy> I'm trying to have it send me a password reminder.
[22:26] <rebo123> Unknown external address
[22:26] <rebo123> Freenet is currently attempting to detect your external IP address. If this takes more than a few minutes there is something wrong and you can use the Temporary IP Address Hint configuration parameter.
[22:27] <rebo123> is that bad?
[22:28] <Grizzy> I had to install "Ant" to get source building to work.
[22:28] <Grizzy> rebo - you're probably behind a masquerading firewall.
[22:28] <MakeSpace> I don't think so, but I don't fully understand that code. try entering your current ip in the configuration page.
[22:28] <MakeSpace> (i don't think its a problem...)
[22:29] <MakeSpace> grizzy, just currious, why are you rebuilding from source?
[22:29] <Grizzy> visit some website like http://www.dnsstuff.com/ and look in the upper right corner for your IP number.
[22:30] <Grizzy> I was trying to machine code compile with gcj.
[22:30] <MakeSpace> grizzy> cool.
[22:31] <Grizzy> As it stands, java sucks a lot of CPU. :o(
[22:31] <nextgens> Grizzy> hmm ?
[22:31] <nextgens> Grizzy> provided scripts are bash scripts
[22:32] <nextgens> and in bash, [[ is valid
[22:32] <nextgens> and is an interface to bash tests
[22:32] <Grizzy> nextgens - not on my machine.
[22:32] <Grizzy> I've only seen [[ used years ago.
[22:32] <nextgens> bash dates from years ago ;)
[22:32] <Grizzy> I added an alias from [[ to "test", and it sorta works.
[22:33] <Grizzy> sorry "symbolic link"
[22:33] <nextgens> I don't see how it possibly can
[22:33] <nextgens> as they are closing braces ]]
[22:33] <Grizzy> I don't remember [[ being used since 10 MHz 68000 machines.
[22:34] <Grizzy> generally, to get [ to work, [ is symlinked to "test"
[22:34] <MakeSpace> from bash info page...
[22:34] <MakeSpace> `[[...]]'
[22:34] <MakeSpace> [[ EXPRESSION ]]
[22:34] <MakeSpace> Return a status of 0 or 1 depending on the evaluation of the
[22:34] <MakeSpace> conditional expression EXPRESSION. Expressions are composed of
[22:34] <Grizzy> perhaps I'm getting the default BSD shell, and not bash
[22:35] <nextgens> you've submited twice the registration to mantis btw
[22:36] <Grizzy> what, are you reading the raw nroff for the bash manpage?
[22:36] <nextgens> I don't need the raw version
[22:37] <nextgens> why ?
[22:37] <nextgens> btw MakeSpace is talking about the gnu/info page
[22:37] <nextgens> not the man
[22:37] <rebo123> how come my reply in frost still hasn't showed up?
[22:38] <MakeSpace> this is true, "info bash" should work. I use emacs though...
[22:38] <rebo123> also, grizzy, freenet was working fine an hour ago
[22:38] <rebo123> and then I rebooted
[22:38] <rebo123> and that message came up
[22:39] <Grizzy> In the "bash" info page on "Bourne Shell Builtins" they document [ and not [[. Nobody uses [[
[22:39] <nextgens> I do :p
[22:39] <Grizzy> it is indeed in the man page, but it actually DOESN'T WORK on an unmodified system.
[22:40] <Grizzy> FreeBSD 6.1
[22:40] <MakeSpace> are you sure you are running bash and not sh?
[22:40] * nextgens bets that bash isn't installed
[22:40] <nextgens> and bash is symlinked to sh
[22:40] <Bombe> [[ is mentioned in the RESERVED WORDS section of the bash man page.
[22:40] <Grizzy> echo $SHELL
[22:40] <Grizzy> /bin/bash
[22:40] <nextgens> that doesn't mean anythin
[22:41] <nextgens> do "which bash" and "bash --version" insteed
[22:41] <nextgens> btw, I'm 100% sure that the syntax is valid in bash
[22:41] <Grizzy> in the locals "BASH_VERSION" is '3.00.16(1)-release'
[22:42] <nextgens> whether we should migrate scripts from bash to sh is something else
[22:42] <nextgens> I dunno sh and I'm not planning to learn it
[22:42] <MakeSpace> ~/src/libgcrypt-1.2.1> bash --version
[22:42] <MakeSpace> GNU bash, version 3.1.17(1)-release (x86_64-suse-linux)
[22:42] <MakeSpace> Copyright (C) 2005 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
[22:42] <Grizzy> look at anyone else's configuration scripts. Nobody uses [[
[22:43] <MakeSpace> i agree [[ is less portable
[22:43] <nextgens> attach a patch to the mantis ticket then
[22:43] <MakeSpace> I bet no one would complain if you fixed the .sh scripts to work with bare bourne shell :)
[22:43] <nextgens> otoh it's more readable
[22:43] <Grizzy> if I can ever sign into mantis.
[22:44] <nextgens> and anyway I don't see why [[ would be less portable
[22:44] <Grizzy> documentation can be wrong, you know.
[22:45] <MineHaunter> I have a problem with USKs
[22:45] <Grizzy> and the GNU $F#$%$$$ zealots like info, which doesn't document [[ as available in bash.a
[22:45] <Grizzy> they probably failed to upgrade the man page.
[22:45] <MineHaunter> if USK@<key>/14/ works, it should work USK@<key>/-14/ too, doesn't it?
[22:46] <nextgens> it's in the manpage too
[22:47] <MakeSpace> wow, I can't even find a bourne shell on which to test [[
[22:47] <Grizzy> It's NOT in the info page.
[22:47] <nextgens> MakeSpace> bash in bourne Again shell ;)
[22:47] <nextgens> not bsh
[22:48] <Grizzy> /bin/sh in FreeBSD
[22:48] <MakeSpace> on my info page I find [[ on the (bash)Conditional Constructs node
[22:49] <nextgens> :@
[22:49] <nextgens> Grizzy> STOP SUBMITING REGISTRATION REQUEST !
[22:49] <nextgens> s
[22:49] <nextgens> it's the third one !
[22:49] <Grizzy> then fix the login process.
[22:49] <nextgens> it works for me
[22:50] <MakeSpace> grizzy> like I said, why don't you fix the script to run under bare bourne shell? it would make other free bsd users happy
[22:50] <Grizzy> what browser?
[22:52] * RichiH (i=richih@) has left #freenet
[22:52] <MineHaunter> I have a working USK@<stuff>/14/ ... USK@<stuff>/-14/ should work too, but it doesn't
[22:52] <MineHaunter> it it normal?
[22:52] <nextgens> MakeSpace> they are other issues as well on *BSD
[22:52] <nextgens> MineHaunter> it should work but take longer
[22:53] <nextgens> MakeSpace> the wrapper for instance uses dynamicly linked libraries wich aren't bundled anymore in recent version of freebsd :/
[22:53] <nextgens> +s
[22:53] <Grizzy> wrapper itsself doesn't install it's own command line program; if I copy it to /usr/local/bin, it gives slews of errors when I run.sh start
[22:54] <nextgens> why do I keep forgetting "s" tonight ?
[22:54] <MineHaunter> when retrieving USK@<stuff>/-14/ after some time fproxy closes the connection
[22:54] * gathers (n=gathers@) Quit (Client Quit)
[22:54] <nextgens> MineHaunter> have you changed your browser's timeout ?
[22:56] <Grizzy> Your account may be disabled or blocked or the username/password you entered is incorrect.
[22:56] <MineHaunter> I'm using wget with timeout disabled
[22:56] <Grizzy> this is just after entering the password twice, in the "reset password" dialog.
[23:00] <nextgens> jbugg and jbug have already logged in
[23:00] <Grizzy> I had misspelled "freenetproject.org" in my cookies exceptions.
[23:00] <nextgens> jbuggg hasn't yet though
[23:00] <Grizzy> I have never been able to log in.
[23:00] <Grizzy> it stll rejects logins.
[23:01] <Grizzy> Your account may be disabled or blocked or the username/password you entered is incorrect.
[23:01] <Grizzy> I never actually "get" logged in, it's reporting wrong.
[23:02] <nextgens> well as the account is enabled, you do have logged in
[23:02] <nextgens> try grabbing https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view_all_bug_page.php
[23:02] <nextgens> or loggin in as an anonymous user
[23:02] <nextgens> guest:guest
[23:03] <Grizzy> the web password reminder thing works, appears to set the password, then I still can't log in.
[23:03] <Grizzy> that page didn't work.
[23:03] <Grizzy> guest:guest works.
[23:04] * NullAcht15 (n=NullAcht@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[23:07] <Grizzy> I gotta leave.
[23:07] * SinnerG2 (i=SinnerG@) has joined #freenet
[23:08] <SinnerG2> okay, I got the basic stuff done I think
[23:08] <SinnerG2> 1) Create folders for the new 'webhost' package
[23:08] <SinnerG2> (and set limits)
[23:08] * SinnerG (i=SinnerG@) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[23:08] <SinnerG2> 2) create mysql databases + add user ||3) Set a limit on processes
[23:08] <SinnerG2> now, lets create the script :)
[23:10] * BomBoola (n=bomboola@) has joined #freenet
[23:13] <SinnerG2> Suggestion: Add (auto)ignore feature for N2N Messages :p
[23:13] <SinnerG2> From: cptn_insano
[23:13] <SinnerG2> perhaps you could add email notification to ifreed.net for pending requests
[23:13] <SinnerG2> he keeps sending me that ;p
[23:25] * MikeW (i=Mike@) Quit ()
[23:29] * Werdna (n=Andrew@) has joined #freenet
Irc logs of #freenet : 2008 2007 2006 2005
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