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[0:39] <agsarite> its nice to see the chinese government is doing so much to protect its citizens from the evils of the world, but who's going to protect the rest of us from us?
[0:43] <ph00> the us?
[0:43] <agsarite> makes sense.
[0:44] <ph00> howz my file doing?
[0:44] <agsarite> 48.2%
[0:44] <ph00> cool
[0:44] <ph00> I'm upping an even bigger 1
[0:44] <ph00> 701 MB
[0:45] <agsarite> you're trying to make freenet choke and die, aren't you?
[0:45] <agsarite> admit it!
[0:48] <ph00> yesterday an old guy, a retired judge, thought I was askiing too much: 15 euros for staying there over one hour, clean his never-reinstalled-2 years old windoze sysyem, use Partition Magic on his drive to give him a spare 'disk' where he can save his stuff (so I can reinstall windows for him later), discussing the installation of a 3- laptop wifi net, then I had to go to the store and buy stuff for hum, in bigcity traffic at 6PM...
[0:49] <ph00> and the guy thinks 15 euros is much!
[0:50] <ph00> then I'll have to buy stuff for appr 170 euros, and will I have to get a buck myself or not?
[0:51] <ph00> 230-250 total. He's gonna say it's too much. If you saw his apartment, central, big and everything, and while he was on the phone I hears about seashore villas etc
[0:51] <ph00> and then 15 eu for more than an hour work, plus another hour or so to the store and back, was too much...
[0:53] <agsarite> i think 15 euros is more than fair.
[0:53] <ph00> even a bit low!
[0:54] <agsarite> yes.
[0:54] <ph00> he's cheap, that's the problem
[0:54] <ph00> you can't get that rich if you aren't cheap
[0:58] <agsarite> you can't get that rich by being honest.
[0:59] <ph00> judges are really overpaid here
[0:59] <ph00> but I don't think a judge can be 100% honest and survive: you take the money or you take the bullets.
[0:59] <ph00> (now I made it too easy to guess in what country I'm living)
[1:00] <agsarite> lol
[1:00] <agsarite> but still, one person in a while country,
[1:00] <agsarite> err, whole.
[1:00] <agsarite> i'm terrible at this typing thing.
[1:00] <ph00> hm. 'they' know who ph00 is, that's for sure
[1:01] <ph00> sO I guess I have to be 'politically correct' here, then I'll say whatever I want on frost, with another nickname
[1:02] <ph00> someone can guess it's me, but they can't prove it, so who cares
[1:02] <ph00> and I haven't done anything illegal yet
[1:03] <ph00> ...as long as we still have *some* freedom of speech
[1:03] <agsarite> implying you're going to do something illegal. we can lock you up for thinking about commiting crimes now, you know.
[1:03] <ph00> what's that? minority report?
[1:04] <agsarite> that wasn't so much them thinking about commiting crimes. in most cases they were arrested before they even had a chance to think about it.
[1:04] <ph00> I'm thinking about committing 'crimes' that aren't crimes right now. Like saying what I think
[1:04] <ph00> yes. they didn't even got so far as thinking of it
[1:04] * sanity (n=ian@) Quit ()
[1:07] <ph00> I'm thinking about subbing an old TV show, I don't think there's subbed version of that
[1:07] <ph00> but I never did that before
[1:07] <ph00> what's an easy-to-use subbing software for linux?
[1:08] <agsarite> i have no clue
[1:08] <ph00> hm
[1:08] <agsarite> not something i've ever tried to do
[1:08] <ph00> I wouldn't have the patience to do that anyway
[1:08] <ph00> but maybe I should try
[1:08] <ph00> gonna try to google something up
[1:08] <ph00> like what?
[1:08] <ph00> 'adding subs'?
[1:09] <agsarite> linux subtitle editor?
[1:10] <ph00> adding subs linux gave me many hits, let's see how goo they are. then I'll do 'linux subtitles editor' ecc
[1:10] <ph00> maybe I should search my debian repositories first...
[1:11] <agsarite> why would you want to search for software that actually has a reasonable chance of working on your os? wheres you sense of adventure?
[1:11] <ph00> yeah. there are lots of them
[1:12] <ph00> my pooint is making some subs, not making some softare work.
[1:12] <ph00> btw
[1:12] <agsarite> your loss
[1:13] <agsarite> making broken software work can be so rewarding.
[1:13] <agsarite> so can tossing computers out windows.
[1:13] <agsarite> your less likely to have any regrets about that last part assuming you use someone elses computer, though.
[1:13] <ph00> I wanted to try a multiplatform flightsim called flightgear, I even succeeded installing the latest testing version with all dependecies from tarballs, and it did launch...
[1:13] <ph00> BUT
[1:14] <ph00> my video card is not doing 3d acceleration because I can't get the proper drivers to work
[1:14] <ph00> I'm using a free thingy
[1:15] <ph00> I tried the debian channel, but all I could get was noise
[1:15] <ph00> on the nvidia channel, even worse: linux snobs =:O
[1:16] <ph00> btw, they banned tor lately on #debian, so I guess I'm out of there until I get a cloak
[1:16] <agsarite> you have a nvidia videocard?
[1:16] <ph00> (I asked for one, but I didn't even get an answer)
[1:16] <ph00> yes
[1:16] <ph00> an ancient geforce4 with 64 MB
[1:17] <agsarite> i think i have one of those in a box somewhere.
[1:17] <agsarite> its defective, i have to wrap an elatic around it or else i get funny lines on the screen and the computer tends to crash.
[1:17] <ph00> I found an howto for the drivers, that worked fine on debian sarge, but not on etch. When I tried that, I couldn't even start X
[1:18] <ph00> my video card does a weir thing, on windows
[1:19] <ph00> I have this windows gaming partition, right, but the hardware is old and crappy and the game I play most (MS flightsim2004) need a lot of memory, video memory and processor, or it will go 'slide show'
[1:21] <ph00> so what I did was: install a 'light' version of windows, make sure that no unneeded stuff run at bootup, manually shutdown more unneded stuff before running FS, but most of all, I overclocked the CPU from the original 1600 to 2000 mhz
[1:22] <agsarite> i tried installing windows in vmware, but i couldn't get video to work right.
[1:22] <ph00> now, the picture is not so nice, the details are bad, and there is some weird imperfection a bit here and there
[1:22] <agsarite> i was stuck at like 640x480 with 4 bit color.
[1:22] <ph00> but, I get a stable 25FPS, no 'slideshows', that's the important thing
[1:23] <ph00> I can't think of other than 'get the proper driver' of course
[1:23] <ph00> but I realize that it can be tough sometimes
[1:24] <ph00> I think I just wrote something nice for the log freak to copy of frost
[1:24] <ph00> (the part about me looking for help for my video card)
[1:25] <ph00> btw he told me who is is. One of them.
[1:25] <agsarite> i have a nvidia card. i even have two monitors running on it.
[1:25] <ph00> must be a newer nvidia
[1:25] <ph00> with some more video mem
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[1:25] <agsarite> yes
[1:26] <ph00> my nvidia have problems with one monitor...
[1:26] <agsarite> but the old 64 mb geforce worked too, once upon a time.
[1:26] <ph00> that works, yes
[1:26] <agsarite> until one day i was working with the computers case off and dropped something on it.
[1:27] <agsarite> hence the need for the elastic wrapped around it for it to work.
[1:27] <ph00> works fine on windows anyway. and it would do that on linux too if I could install the proper driver
[1:27] <ph00> hehe
[1:27] <ph00> you're lucky that it kept working
[1:28] <agsarite> without the elastic it has green horizontal lines all over the screen, and windows couldn't autodetect what it was.
[1:28] <ph00> I once dropped a screw on the motherboard of a running computer, which incidentally was resting on one side
[1:28] <ph00> it shorted of course
[1:28] <ph00> it went 'zap!'
[1:28] <ph00> and died
[1:28] <agsarite> thats a tragic story.
[1:29] <ph00> ...and with a rubber band wrapped around? it works fine?
[1:29] <ph00> technological mysteries...
[1:29] <ph00> that's not so tragic, I was stupid.
[1:29] <agsarite> i know man, its amazing.
[1:29] <agsarite> except the heat would make them brittle and they would break
[1:29] * bsmntbombdood is now known as remote
[1:30] <agsarite> and then the computer would crash
[1:30] <ph00> use something that tan take the heat. tie it together instead of using rubberbands
[1:30] <ph00> ...use some glue?
[1:32] <agsarite> i'm not sure what specifically was broke on it, aside that pressure made it work.
[1:32] <ph00> welding. now I don't know the english for that, but you know what I mean, that dripping metal thing, at relatively low temps...
[1:32] <ph00> pressure hm?
[1:33] <agsarite> soldering
[1:33] <ph00> soldering yeah
[1:33] <ph00> but that won't give you pressure
[1:34] <ph00> maybe you should do that while keeping under pressure
[1:34] <ph00> hhmm...
[1:34] <ph00> buy a new one?
[1:34] <ph00> (rob the store?)
[1:34] <agsarite> it doesn't matter, i've since replaced it.
[1:34] <ph00> oh yeah. that was the card in the box
[1:34] <ph00> like jack
[1:35] * noggly_ (i=noggly@) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[1:35] <agsarite> i've got a really nice agp card here i'm not using. i bought it for my brother, but his computer died, and i replaced the cpu and motherboard for him, but the store only had pci-express, so i had to get a new video card too.
[1:36] <ph00> I once saw a jack-in-the box thing where a plastic dick jumped out, called 'Dick in the Box' , of course. I must be very stupid, becaus I found that funny.
[1:36] <ph00> I have to spiff up my box too
[1:36] <ph00> will cost me some 400 eu
[1:37] <ph00> but then I'll get basically a new machine, in the same class as a 2000-2500 eu box
[1:37] <agsarite> i bought some ram for my computer, but somehow my brother ended up with that too.
[1:37] <ph00> motherboard, CPU, videocard, and add some memory
[1:37] <agsarite> i should stop buying stuff for him
[1:38] <ph00> yes
[1:38] <agsarite> he has half a gig more ram than i do :(
[1:39] <ph00> if I have an old 512 mem stick, do I wan to add another 512 or completely replace the mem while upgrading?
[1:39] <agsarite> but i guess its fair, since he has windows and plays games all the time
[1:39] <ph00> that's basically the one thing you need all that mem for
[1:39] <ph00> my box runs fine on 1600MhZ/512 RAM
[1:40] <agsarite> my temp directory is a ram disk, lol
[1:40] <ph00> I need to upgrade for the windows gaming only
[1:40] * remote is now known as bsmntbombdood
[1:40] <ph00> that's what I call a 'really temporary' dir
[1:43] <ph00> on gaming windows boxes, I ususally make a dedicated partition for the paging file (fixed dimension), a dedicated partition for the OS itself, and one for the games (easier to keep well defragmented) and then a file storage partition where you write and delete files all the time without making other filesystems go fragmented. It does give me somewhat of a better smoothness on my old crappy box
[1:45] <ph00> but the real trick is the windows version itself. I'm pretty sure that MS adds 'weight' on purpose to make ppl buy new machines all the time: a 'stripped-to-the-bone' windows version takes less than 100MB ram and some 2GB on harddisk, and does just exactly what the 'regular' windows does
[1:45] <ph00> (i.e. playing games)
[1:47] <agsarite> its amazing how most normal people need to get these high end computers so they can surf the web, read email, and write a few text documents. and play solitare of course.
[1:48] <agsarite> my program is telling me to add categories to the flogs, but i can't figure out what to put them as. the all seem to go all over the place.
[1:49] <ph00> what program? one you wrote yourself?
[1:50] <agsarite> yeah, the script for generating the pages for indicia
[1:50] <ph00> I don't know anything about flogs, I never tried to make one
[1:51] <ph00> and I don't know how to code... I guess I started doing computers too late. the only thing I can do is using python as a calculator
[1:51] <ph00> I'm trying to learn but it goes vveeeerrryyyy ssslllooooowwwww
[1:51] <agsarite> i was playing with bayesian filters earlier, i wanted to see if i could get the program to figure out how to categorize things on its own instead of me having to tell it.
[1:52] <agsarite> im not nearly as optimistic about it as i was this morning.
[1:53] <ph00> you been on it all day?
[1:53] <agsarite> nah, i had a long nap in the middle of it.
[1:53] <ph00> hm...
[1:54] <ph00> completely forget the whole thing for a couple of days?
[1:54] <ph00> that helps sometimes
[1:54] <agsarite> for testing i made it read all the irc logs, and have it try to guess who would say a given phrase.
[1:54] <ph00> generally
[1:54] <ph00> hehe
[1:55] <ph00> I should be one of the easy to guess
[1:55] <agsarite> is was pretty biased towards answering toad and nextgens though, i suppose since they're the most likely people to say anything anyway.
[1:55] <ph00> yes
[1:55] <agsarite> apparently you're the most likely person to say 'penis'.
[1:55] <ph00> because they have a higher 'say' to 'ask' ratio
[1:55] <ph00> or something
[1:56] <ph00> I am?
[1:56] <ph00> I knw why
[1:56] <ph00> because I am one of the few, probably the only one, who actually used the word 'penis', lately
[1:56] <agsarite> ios is the most likely person to say 'hi'
[1:56] <ph00> I was saying something about guys with big cars and small dicks
[1:56] <agsarite> nextgens is the most likely person to say 'toad sucks donkey balls'
[1:57] <ph00> and I called those cars 'small penis compensator'
[1:57] <ph00> hehe
[1:59] <ph00> no, it was about guns. someone was talking about gun control so I said something like ppl who need to go around with a gun in their pocket must have a self esteem problem, form there I thought of jay leno once calling a big SUV a 'small penis comensator' and used that term for guns
[2:00] <agsarite> "<ph00> yeah, a hunting rifle maybe, but no way I would get a hand gun and carry it at all times. That's "small penis compensator" and nothing else"
[2:01] <ph00> have you seen those moron guys who post their refs in signed frost messages? how stupid can you get?
[2:01] <ph00> who is the most likely to go 'rtfm'
[2:01] <ph00> (I guess I am)
[2:01] <ph00> I was complaining about ppl saying that instead of helping
[2:01] <ph00> I guess the program only can count words, not understand contest (of course, even I understand that it would take much more coding)
[2:01] <agsarite> it doesn't understand context at all.
[2:01] <ph00> yeah. that was the one. you did a search on 'small penis complensator'?
[2:02] <agsarite> i grepped the logs i downloaded
[2:02] <agsarite> 14 instances of the word penis
[2:02] <ph00> maybe making it change the values for words when in proximity of other spacifical words
[2:03] <ph00> e
[2:03] <agsarite> words in reference to other words creates a 2d array, squaring the amount of data i need.
[2:03] <ph00> who's said 'moron', 'dumb' etc most?
[2:04] <agsarite> probably you first, then furiousrage
[2:04] <agsarite> i don't have the program i wrote.
[2:05] <agsarite> i was editing indicia when i was playing around with this
[2:05] <agsarite> i typed svn revert when i was done experimenting
[2:05] <ph00> nvs?
[2:05] <ph00> revert svn = nvs
[2:05] <agsarite> nvs?
[2:06] <ph00> mmhhuhahah
[2:06] <ph00> like 'invert' instead of revert
[2:07] <ph00> man I forgot. I got discs!
[2:07] <ph00> time for some burning
[2:10] <agsarite> i'm going to rewrite my little program just for the hell of it.
[2:11] <ph00> I love my hybrid desktop
[2:11] <ph00> Gnome, with and extra KDE panel
[2:12] <ph00> (done by auro running 'kicker' at login)
[2:12] <ph00> auto*
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[2:18] <agsarite> this thing started out as a simple library for making 2d tile based games. somehow it ended up with a webserver and code for bayesian filters.
[2:18] <agsarite> to date, i have used it in 0 games.
[2:19] <agsarite> when i get into writing vapor, its going to end up with some crypto.
[2:19] <agsarite> every simple 2d game needs high end crypto.
[2:19] <agsarite> obviously.
[2:19] * MineHaunter (n=van85@) Quit ()
[2:20] <ph00> of couse, yeah
[2:20] <ph00> (always tell him he's right...)
[2:21] * n0ob (n=travis@) Quit ("off")
[2:21] <agsarite> well, you've got to keep those players from h@x0ring their high scores, of course.
[2:22] <ph00> why would they? you want to set an high score, not type a false one in. unless you win something
[2:22] <ph00> but OK, I get the point
[2:23] <agsarite> that's not my point, i'm making fun of myself here.
[2:24] <ph00> if I could code, I would probably try to write a game where the player is God, based on the Bib??le
[2:24] <ph00> bible
[2:24] <ph00> could be fun
[2:24] * Gasi (n=chatzill@) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[2:25] <ph00> a 'send' menu, where you can choose ?charesty', 'blood rain' etc
[2:25] <ph00> 'deluge'
[2:25] <ph00> you could grant people miracles if they asked you for, etc
[2:25] <ph00> what could the goal of such a game be?
[2:26] <ph00> uniting the world under 'your' religion?
[2:26] <agsarite> the gold of the game is to convince the world you don't exist.
[2:27] <agsarite> by planting fossils and whatnot.
[2:27] <ph00> hehehe
[2:27] <agsarite> 'we'll see who believes in me now!'
[2:27] <ph00> wait: another player could play the devil
[2:27] <ph00> (or the computer could)
[2:27] <ph00> you could choose if you want to be god or satan
[2:28] <ph00> goal of god-player: annihilate satan and build a safe boring world; goal for satan, kill god an take his place
[2:29] <agsarite> then build strip malls and casinos.
[2:29] <ph00> yeah.
[2:29] <agsarite> and a good time will be had by all
[2:29] <ph00> 'soundtrack: AC/DC'
[2:30] <ph00> we 're ona HIIIIWAAAY TO HELL!
[2:34] * ph00 fires up streamtuner on some classic rock station
[3:18] * railk (n=railk@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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[3:40] <agsarite> ph00, can you connect to http://agsarite.no-ip.info:6666/
[3:41] <agsarite> or anyone else
[3:41] <ph00> wait...
[3:41] <ph00> I think I'm the only one awake...
[3:41] <ph00> well, now...
[3:41] <ph00> "awake"
[3:42] <BaDboD> hmm i need a noderef it seems,,
[3:42] <agsarite> i'm not entirely sure i've written this corrently.
[3:42] <ph00> I can connect, that's already something
[3:43] <agsarite> oh, okay them.
[3:43] <BaDboD> ill join the freenet-refs channel then
[3:43] <ph00> I'm connecting thru tor btw
[3:43] <agsarite> thats okay
[3:43] <ph00> I came directly to some results page
[3:44] <ph00> toad_ 17.7
[3:44] <ph00> nextgens 9.22
[3:44] <ph00> etc
[3:44] <agsarite> yeah, thats my program for calculating the probability of someone saying something
[3:44] <ph00> opps
[3:44] <agsarite> i wrote the web server all by myself
[3:44] <ph00> I pasted their names, now they'll think that someone has something to say...
[3:45] <agsarite> lool
[3:45] <ph00> hey, another nexgens trick, I got an outomated 'sorry I'm back for a while' messages when I typed hios name
[3:45] <ph00> ?sorry, I'm away'
[3:45] <ph00> try typing nexgens nick
[3:45] <agsarite> sure.
[3:46] <agsarite> nextgens is a cowards
[3:46] <agsarite> teh noes!
[3:46] <agsarite> ghosts!
[3:46] <ph00> onle because he's french? not all frenchyes are cowards
[3:46] <agsarite> anyway, i think the results are very revealing when you use the word penis.
[3:46] <ph00> only 95% of them
[3:47] <ph00> mmhhhuahahahah
[3:47] <ph00> well, the results are revealing wnhenever you use 'penis'
[3:47] <agsarite> if i updated the logs, i'm sure i'd be the one expected to say penis now.
[3:48] <agsarite> penis penis penis.
[3:48] <ph00> of course. I said 'penis' some 5 or 6 times under the last 2 hours alone.
[3:49] <ph00> hey. no one says 'whatever'? I know I did
[3:49] <ph00> freenet is gay
[3:49] <agsarite> it only breaks things apart at spaces, puncuation probably screwed it up.
[3:49] <ph00> I got some 8 results for 'penis' and no results for 'vagina'
[3:50] * ph00 goes back to his show
[3:50] <ph00> nice program btw
[3:50] <agsarite> laters
[3:50] <ph00> needs more fine tuning, but it's fun
[3:50] <ph00> l8r
[3:50] <agsarite> i'm going to use the code i used for a freenet app someday.
[4:22] <ph00> agsarite you could be using too many logs for you prog. Try using newer stuff only
[4:22] * Werdna (i=Andrew@) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[4:23] <ph00> like the last couple of months or so
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[4:24] <agsarite> i think is mostly because posts are so similar, it has to fall back to how often each person posts to get a probability.
[4:24] <ph00> yes but that will catch a lot of ppl who are not hanging around here any more
[4:25] <ph00> new nicks too
[4:25] * BaDboD (n=BaDboD@) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[4:25] <ph00> but, ok...
[4:25] <ph00> maybe..
[4:26] <agsarite> i'm pretty sure i coded it correctly, like at least 5%.
[4:26] <ph00> I don't know, maybe countiing how old a users's last post is
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[4:26] <agsarite> i'm not going to worry too much about it, it was just a little toy.
[4:26] <ph00> I mean, if a guy has the most probability of using a particular word, but he hasn't posted anything for the last 4 months, the probability should decrease
[4:26] <agsarite> and an excuse to use the word 'penis' excessively.
[4:27] <ph00> looking at how old last post is may coorect that
[4:27] * BaDboD (n=BaDboD@) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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[4:27] <agsarite> i don't have the dates, they were all dumped into the same pool.
[4:29] <agsarite> 93% complete...
[4:29] <agsarite> come on, upload.
[4:29] <ph00> wht
[4:29] <ph00> a
[4:29] <agsarite> lol
[4:30] <agsarite> 86% complete. . . 93% complete. . . 88% complete.
[4:30] <agsarite> this uploader is a timetraveler.
[4:31] <agsarite> i believe uploading files in freenet holds the key to unlocking the mysteries of time travel.
[4:31] <ph00> yeah
[4:31] <ph00> posting of frost too
[4:31] <ph00> ppl post from the future
[4:31] <agsarite> lol, its true.
[4:34] <agsarite> lol, that program i showed you wrote 1e+2 instead of 100%
[4:34] <agsarite> just as many letters, a lot less easy to read
[4:35] <agsarite> actually it wrote 1e+02
[4:35] <agsarite> thats even worse
[4:35] <agsarite> lol, i say lol too much.
[4:35] <agsarite> now i'm going to look like an aol'er
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[4:53] <ph00> lol-er
[4:53] <ph00> lolboy
[4:53] <ph00> you lollyboy
[4:53] * agsarite hangs his head in shame.
[4:54] <ph00> (one who says lol too much)
[4:54] <ph00> hehe
[4:54] <ph00> there's a couple of thing's I say too much...
[4:54] <ph00> one is
[4:54] <ph00> mmmhhhuuAHAHAHAHA
[4:55] <agsarite> my program claims to have never seen you say that.
[4:55] <ph00> and another one is
[4:55] <agsarite> but what does it know?
[4:55] <ph00> it doesnt
[4:55] <ph00> and you know why
[4:55] <ph00> because it's never spelled twice the same way
[4:56] <agsarite> i'll have to teach it to break words in to phonetics and compare those instead
[4:56] <ph00> well
[4:56] <ph00> that 'll take some time
[4:56] <ph00> maybe the last-post thing was easier
[4:57] <agsarite> NEVAR!!!!
[4:57] <agsarite> another word it claims never to have seen.
[4:57] <ph00> maybe you can get help by some freenode staffer and get access to some 'last login' log
[4:57] <ph00> of course not. ?nevar' is not even a word
[4:58] <agsarite> LIEAR!!
[4:58] <ph00> that neither
[4:58] <ph00> but I've been called 'liEr' a couple of times
[4:59] <ph00> damn
[4:59] <ph00> a movie I wanted to see is not working
[5:00] <agsarite> have you tried percussive maintenance?
[5:00] <ph00> another DVD in the garbage bin
[5:00] <agsarite> you burnt it yourself?
[5:00] <ph00> I wnoder what a 'real' DVD or CD costs, once you taken the price of all the discs you throw away and divide it for the remainiing pieces
[5:01] <ph00> yes, I bunt it myself, and some 1.6 of the data was missing
[5:01] <ph00> but the weird thing is
[5:01] <ph00> when I move the slider back and forth
[5:01] <ph00> the data seems to be there
[5:01] <agsarite> i'm sure its a software feature.
[5:02] <ph00> but when I play it, every now and then a message pops up 'data couldn't be read' and the program quits
[5:02] <agsarite> a feature to get the people making the writable dvds more money
[5:02] <ph00> no doesn't really quit, tops the movie only
[5:02] <ph00> and it could be a software feature if I was running windows vista
[5:03] <ph00> no, I mean the feature that won't let you see a DL'ed movie
[5:03] <agsarite> DRM is our friend.
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[5:07] <agsarite> fcp needs some way for me to get a files mime without needing to download the whole thing.
[5:07] <agsarite> the files size would be a useful thing to know, too.
[5:14] <TheSeeker> With my downloads never showing any progress unless I abort them and restart, I wonder how often insert blocks are succeeding, but are not getting reported as such?
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[5:31] <agsarite> i think its really gay how 'const foo x=whatever; bar(foo);' compiles, but 'bar(foo(whatever))' doesn't.
[5:32] <agsarite> why the heck aren't constants automagically converted to constant references?
[5:32] * agsarite pokes his compiler in disgust.
[5:38] <TheSeeker> surely you mean 'bar(foo(whatever));'
[5:39] <agsarite> if you're referring to my missing semicolon, then a poke your pedanticness in disgust.
[5:41] <ph00> semicolons suck;
[5:42] <TheSeeker> I just don't really know what you're talking about, or why it would be useful.
[5:43] <agsarite> i'm complaining about needing to make a seperate variable named x.
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[5:43] <agsarite> i screwed up my first example, it was supposed to be 'bar(x);'
[5:44] <ljn1981> Morning
[5:46] <ljn1981> I wonder how many trust this message... It's all over the place and the same each time:
[5:46] <ljn1981> Subject: Secure Anonymous Surfing
[5:46] <ljn1981> Body: Secure Anonymous Surfing
[5:46] <agsarite> i know i don't.
[5:47] <ljn1981> File attachment: SecureAnonSurf.zip
[5:47] <ljn1981> Posted by Anonymous
[5:47] <ljn1981> And the file suposedly contain a .exe file according to the one reply I've seen asking what it is.
[5:48] <ljn1981> Same for me
[5:49] <ljn1981> By definition I don't download any executable from freenet other than shell scripts and those get read till I understand them before being executed
[5:49] <TheSeeker> what's so odd about someone phishing for idiots?
[5:50] <ljn1981> TheSeeker: Nothing, just the first case I've seen on 0.7
[5:50] <TheSeeker> Aren't the majority of freenet users on Linux at this point?
[5:51] <ljn1981> Not a clue
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[6:16] * anonymouse is not on linux
[6:16] <ljn1981> Hmm
[6:16] <ljn1981> Stupid connection...
[6:16] <anonymouse> i would bet that the majority of dumb freenet users are on windows
[6:17] <anonymouse> i happen to be an exception ;)
[6:17] <ljn1981> Heh
[6:17] <agsarite> you're not on linux, not on windows, where be we then?
[6:17] <agsarite> bsd? mac?
[6:17] <anonymouse> oh no i didn't mean that
[6:17] <anonymouse> i'm not on linux, i AM on windows, but i'm not a dummy
[6:18] <anonymouse> my next desktop is going to be ubuntu then
[6:18] <ljn1981> I'm on OS X and I'll be on linux or OpenBSD as soon as I get a new machine, this one is too much of a piece of crap to bother reinstalling on
[6:18] <anonymouse> i'm sure not forking over cash for vista
[6:18] <anonymouse> i like my OS X box too
[6:19] <anonymouse> actually that one would be a really good candidate for a dedicated freenode, if i wasn't using it on a test network
[6:19] <ljn1981> I like mine too but I hate Apple for not supporting older OS versions properly
[6:19] <anonymouse> i have to get it away from my current desktop
[6:19] <anonymouse> performance killer
[6:19] <ljn1981> I can't get java 1.5 because I don't want to pay for the newest OS release, I'm only one behind
[6:19] <anonymouse> heh ljn1981 you must not be a true mac user
[6:20] <anonymouse> true mac users rationalize why apple's decisions are the best
[6:20] <anonymouse> ;)
[6:20] <ljn1981> No, I'm definitely not your typical mac user
[6:20] <anonymouse> although even the most apple-colored-glasses users i know, all hate the new itunes interface
[6:21] <anonymouse> so i make fun of them, telling them that they are required to love it, because it has been made by apple so must be perfect
[6:21] * anonymouse is pretty mean, he guesses.
[6:22] <ljn1981> The one that was supposed to look more like OS 10.4 was real icky, there were an update a few days ago that made it a bit more bearable but the old one is still the best
[6:22] <anonymouse> oh i didn't know they changed it again
[6:22] <anonymouse> maybe that's why everyone stopped complaining
[6:22] <anonymouse> i don't use itunes so i'm out of the loop
[6:23] <ljn1981> But what good is a new nicer interface anyway when the whole program is written like crap and therefore often is unresponsive for a long while or eat way much CPU?
[6:23] <anonymouse> hah try the windows version
[6:23] <anonymouse> i have tried three times to destroy it but it keeps coming back
[6:23] <anonymouse> and quicktime is even worse on windows
[6:23] <ljn1981> I only use it for podcasts and that's only because I can't be bothered downloading them manually or finding another client
[6:24] <anonymouse> it takes over all media mime types in the browser even though i explicitly unchecked all the little association boxes
[6:24] <anonymouse> had to go into firefox and manually edit the config interface
[6:24] <anonymouse> i mean there's good, there's bad, and there's Real Player bad
[6:24] <anonymouse> this is Real Player bad
[6:25] * anonymouse notices that he is talking off topic now
[6:25] <ljn1981> Speaking of nasty apple products, have you seen the new ipod nano models? Three new colors and they're so ugly it's sad
[6:25] <agsarite> its impossible to be off topic
[6:25] <anonymouse> i'm too used to irc'ing all day on general chans that don't have a narrow topic
[6:25] <anonymouse> oh nextgens might not agree
[6:25] <anonymouse> =)
[6:26] <anonymouse> no ljn1981 i don't keep up much with ipods either
[6:26] <anonymouse> i don't have a lot of mobile music needs, but if i did, i sure wouldn't buy an ipod
[6:26] <anonymouse> well.. maybe a nano, those are the first ones that weren't ridiculous
[6:26] <ljn1981> Hang on I'll find a pic
[6:26] <ljn1981> Yeah I have the same problem with not beig used to narrow topic chans
[6:27] <anonymouse> but samsung has much better form factors, feature sets, and batt life for some of its players
[6:27] <anonymouse> tho i heard a rumor that new nanos are supposed to have like 20+ hours of play time on a charge
[6:28] <ljn1981> Yeah and you can get up to 8GB versions now, and those ae the same price I gave for my 4GB one around release time of them.
[6:28] <ljn1981> Heence I want one!!!! But can't afford it and much less justify it even if I had the money
[6:29] <anonymouse> easy.. just sell your old one on ebay
[6:29] <anonymouse> mac users on ebay are apparently all morons
[6:29] <anonymouse> they pay like retail price for everything
[6:29] <ljn1981> http://a772.g.akamai.net/7/772/8352/20060914/email.euro.apple.com/apple/n36clonestore/version2/dk/images/mainimage.jpg
[6:29] <anonymouse> sometimes more
[6:29] <ljn1981> The original two colors are the black and the white ones
[6:29] <anonymouse> yeah hm
[6:30] <anonymouse> i still don't find the form factor that compelling
[6:30] <anonymouse> i like the little samsung bricks more
[6:30] <ljn1981> The problem with the old one is it's got my email address engraved on the back
[6:30] <anonymouse> and the new colors.. yeah i see what you mean
[6:30] <anonymouse> loud and ugly
[6:30] <anonymouse> if the blue was darker it would be ok
[6:30] <anonymouse> no hope for the others
[6:31] <ljn1981> Might, but unlikely
[6:31] <ljn1981> Mine is black but I should have gotten the white one, harder to see scratches on that
[6:33] <ljn1981> The form is nice to the touch and if you want smaller and cheaper and don't need a screen or more than 1GB storage you should look at the new ipod shuffle version, it's even smaller than the old one
[6:33] <anonymouse> heh scratches.. maybe they shouldn't make all their stuff out of cheap ass plastic
[6:33] <ljn1981> But ugly as fuck
[6:33] <anonymouse> ahahaha shuffle
[6:33] <anonymouse> if i got a shuffle for free i would give it away
[6:34] <anonymouse> i might even toss it in the garbage just to make a point
[6:34] <anonymouse> but probably would give it to goodwill
[6:34] <anonymouse> all of the worst aspects of mp3 players without any of the benefits
[6:35] <anonymouse> until the last price drop it wasn't even competitively priced with similar sized players that had more features
[6:35] <ljn1981> Well some of the scratches are entirely my fault, like having it hanging around my neck(bought those funny headphones) and playing with electronics stuff. Ipods don't like accidentally being dragged over the bottom side of a PCB.
[6:37] <anonymouse> yeah but it shouldn't have to live in a padded environment
[6:37] <anonymouse> it's a device meant to be used; rugged
[6:38] <ljn1981> Well I should have stuffed it inside my shirt
[6:39] <anonymouse> you could buy one of those silicone ipod condoms for it
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[6:46] <agsarite> magic!
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[6:48] <agsarite> if i begin my site title with an entity code, the entire title disappears in both opera and firefox.
[6:53] <anonymouse> =/
[6:54] <anonymouse> that doesn't sound ideal
[6:55] <agsarite> i wonder if its just a problem with my window manager, though.
[6:55] <anonymouse> possible
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[6:55] <anonymouse> can you test off site?
[6:55] <anonymouse> or are you doing a freesite
[6:56] <agsarite> i was viewing it from a file
[6:56] <anonymouse> right i mean is it something you would publish for example for others here to double check your findings
[6:56] <anonymouse> or is it a freesite where you would only publish the content on freenet
[6:57] <agsarite> make an empty text file, paste: <html><head><title>▸ you can't see this</title></head><body></body></html>
[6:58] <agsarite> rename something.html, open in web browser.
[6:58] <agsarite> i'm fairly sure its due to my current environment here, though,
[6:59] <agsarite> i'm doubtful opera and firefox would have the exact same bug.
[6:59] <anonymouse> well..
[7:00] * verl (i=verl@) Quit (Connection timed out)
[7:00] <anonymouse> yes confirmed
[7:00] <anonymouse> works for me
[7:01] <anonymouse> sleep time
[7:01] <agsarite> are you confirming that the problem exists or the problem is with me?
[7:01] <agsarite> i'm guessing it works.
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[7:02] <Bombe> My firefox shows the title.
[7:02] <agsarite> okay.
[7:03] <agsarite> i guess my wm just doesn't like unicode characters
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[9:15] <YESL> i want to update but i get this error: NET HELPMSG 3521.
[9:16] <YESL> does anyone know what the problem is
[9:19] <YESL> - Checking for Freenet updates...
[9:19] <YESL> - New version found!
[9:19] <YESL> - Shutting down Freenet...
[9:19] <YESL> 'stop.cmd' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
[9:19] <YESL> operable program or batch file.
[9:19] <YESL> The Freenet 0.7 darknet-8889-8889 service is not started.
[9:21] <ph00> sounds like a windows problem to me
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[9:26] <YESL> oke
[9:26] <YESL> thanxs
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[10:57] <Knochi> hi i'm new to freenet need some help
[10:58] <ljn1981> Welcome, what can we help you with?
[11:00] <Knochi> i added three refs right now... think freenet is running
[11:00] <Knochi> now i need a few good index pages i think
[11:01] <ljn1981> http://localhost:8888/freenet:USK@c55vMxUl-T-lD3nv0iOaXF~G1hnY6pOMRbzZSwACMmY,yd8~uwUmGm164-ipStoiBOJVjkbbYXJMlD~H5ftPxIA,AQABAAE/Indicia/19/
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[11:01] <ljn1981> http://localhost:8888/freenet:USK@e4TEIN5l1nkn6kjl63XBgYTYobmwGvtnyK2YW0b0ajo,hv-2~OfetXkb0FhDuPxorWIf0wXeZKPEfdIhwyh-mhk,AQABAAE/AnotherIndex/21/
[11:02] <ljn1981> These two are the best ones. They both list others too.
[11:02] <Knochi> when i want to add them, to my bookmarks.. which part i have to paste in the "key" field?
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[11:04] <ljn1981> freenet: and the rest of the line or the part after freenet: it doesn't matter
[11:04] <Knochi> ok
[11:05] <ljn1981> Keys start with KSK@, SSK@ or USK@
[11:05] <Knochi> ah ok
[11:05] <ljn1981> Oh I forgot CHK@
[11:06] <toad_> Knochi: you will need more than 3 refs ...
[11:06] <Knochi> yes i know
[11:07] <Knochi> three is minimum
[11:09] <Knochi> do more refs speed up the connection ?=
[11:09] <dbkr> any one know if, in Java, you can define a public static variable in an interface without a value that implementing classes must set a value for?
[11:09] <Knochi> or does it speed up over the time like other p2p networks?
[11:09] <dbkr> Knochi: to a point, yes, more refs will make browsing faster
[11:09] <dbkr> (but they'll also add overhead)
[11:11] <Knochi> ok... you want to share refs ?
[11:11] <TheSeeker> I'm on "ok" DSL, and ~25 conections doesn't come close to saturating the bandwidth I've given freenet :(
[11:11] <ljn1981> As a general rule you shouldn't add more nodes than they'll have at least 1kbps up and downstream each
[11:11] <Knochi> ok
[11:11] <ljn1981> 10 peers is considered a good amount most the time
[11:12] <TheSeeker> I give freenet 60KB/s
[11:12] <ljn1981> I can only spare 36/9
[11:12] <TheSeeker> I rarely see over 20KB/s used. more commonly 8-10
[11:14] <ljn1981> 5-8 here, 5.5 average
[11:15] <Knochi> ok.... how can i upload files to the freenet or make my own page? is there a good tutorial somewhere? perhabs in german?
[11:15] <TheSeeker> I was able to open another P2P app earlier and get 570 KB/s download speed with about 30 active sources for a download, so I know my connection isn't dead :P
[11:15] <ljn1981> wiki.freenetproject.org might have something
[11:16] <ljn1981> If you have java 1.5 you should use jsite to upload sites
[11:16] <ljn1981> If you don't have java 1.5 there are other tools
[11:17] <TheSeeker> somewhat ironic that jsite doesn't have a freesite... at least not one linked to by the indexes.
[11:17] <ljn1981> Now you mention it that is a bit ironic
[11:20] <Knochi> hmm funny thing this freenet
[11:22] <ljn1981> It's a lot different than most other nets.
[11:22] <TheSeeker> It seems that at present, routing and load ballancing are snafu. (I'd say fubar, but it *kinda* works, so that's not really true)
[11:23] <Knochi> is the freent used to distribute warez, too?
[11:24] <TheSeeker> Freenet is used to distribute data, indiscriminently, by design. Whatever that means to you, that is your choice to make.
[11:24] <Knochi> ok
[11:24] <Knochi> :-)
[11:24] * Werdna (i=Andrew@) Quit ("LOL RUNNING AWAY")
[11:25] <Knochi> what's frost ?
[11:25] <Knochi> is this another application i have to install?
[11:25] <TheSeeker> A (primarily) messaging system over freenet.
[11:25] <Knochi> a
[11:25] <TheSeeker> Frost should have been included with whatever installer you used to get freenet...
[11:25] <Knochi> ok
[11:25] <ljn1981> TheSeeker: It works better than 0.5 did so it's not all bad and on good days with popular content it can almost compete with tor in speed.
[11:25] <TheSeeker> is there a frost dir within your freenet dir?
[11:25] <ljn1981> Knochi: Kinda like usenet.
[11:26] <Knochi> yes
[11:26] <ljn1981> Knochi: frost, jsite and thaw might have been installed with the node.
[11:26] <ljn1981> Thaw is kinda an upload/download manager
[11:26] <Knochi> i setup the freenet note onto another PC
[11:27] <TheSeeker> What does Thaw do that the queue page can't do at this time?
[11:27] <Knochi> can i acess frost within another PC in local network?
[11:27] <TheSeeker> Knochi: not easily.
[11:27] <ljn1981> TheSeeker: Eat too much CPU time, hang and looks better than the queue page?
[11:28] <TheSeeker> ljn1981: I can do that with fuqid, thanks :P
[11:28] <ljn1981> It happily eat 60*% of my 1.5ghz G4
[11:28] <TheSeeker> without the CPU eating part
[11:28] <TheSeeker> and without another java process running :P
[11:29] <Knochi> can i install frost on the working pc and the freenet node on my "always on" pc ?
[11:29] <ljn1981> Sure
[11:30] <TheSeeker> It's technically possible to use frost from a different computer than you're running freenet on, but I think it involves ssh tunnels or somesuch :P
[11:31] <ljn1981> But you propably want to encrypt the trafic between them, it's not encrypted normally
[11:31] <Knochi> no need to encrypt it's an private network
[11:31] <ljn1981> TheSeeker: It doesn't have to but it's the recomanded approach to get it encrypted
[11:33] <ljn1981> First time you start frost it'll ask you a few questions, one being the address of the node, fill in the ip of the node and the FCP port number(9481 unless you changed it).
[11:34] <TheSeeker> And tell it that your'e using 0.7, that's kinda important too ;)
[11:34] <ljn1981> Wait a sec, I don't think you actually need the port number, I forgot what it ask exactly
[11:34] <Knochi> stupid question... how can i start frost ?
[11:34] <Knochi> found no exec
[11:34] <ljn1981> Yeah, 0.7 darknet
[11:34] <TheSeeker> java -jar frost.jar
[11:34] <Knochi> ah
[11:34] <ljn1981> I think there's a bat file too
[11:35] <TheSeeker> I thought a shell script was also provided, hmm.
[11:35] <ljn1981> And propably an sh file too
[11:35] <Knochi> something happend but i can see no questions... no GUI nothing
[11:35] <ljn1981> I just double click the jar, one of the few nice things about java in OS X
[11:36] <ljn1981> Haven't seen any other OS that let you just double click it
[11:36] <TheSeeker> Windows lets you.
[11:36] <ljn1981> Hmm
[11:37] <ljn1981> Cool, must be a new thing since last I used windows
[11:37] <Knochi> hello... what about frost?
[11:37] <TheSeeker> double clicking basically executes javaw -jar <jarfile> ... doesnt' work for the freenet jar, obviously :P
[11:37] <Knochi> do i have to install java 1.5 perhabs ?
[11:38] <TheSeeker> are you using sun java 1.4 ?
[11:38] <ljn1981> java 1.4 works too
[11:38] <Knochi> i'm using jo java... only rumtime
[11:38] <Knochi> i have no java installed
[11:39] <TheSeeker> jo java?
[11:39] <Knochi> NO java
[11:39] <TheSeeker> how are you runnign freenet? :P
[11:39] <Knochi> ah
[11:39] <Knochi> hmm good question
[11:39] <Knochi> i installed java runtime 5.0
[11:39] <TheSeeker> from Sun?
[11:40] <Knochi> yeah... www.java.com
[11:40] <Knochi> running frost.bat creates a frost0.log.lck file
[11:40] <TheSeeker> people come in fairly often trying to run freenet on blackdown, or IBM java, pfff ;p
[11:41] <Knochi> but i can't see a process or something like this in task manager
[11:41] <TheSeeker> it shoudl also make a .frost_run_lock
[11:41] <TheSeeker> Knochi: it should be a java process
[11:41] <Knochi> a i see... javaw
[11:42] <Knochi> but as i mentioned i can't see any interface
[11:42] <TheSeeker> nothing on your taskbar?
[11:42] <Knochi> nothing
[11:43] <TheSeeker> try alt+tabbing... you might see see a java icon there from a hidden popup window asking you a question
[11:43] <Knochi> do i have to tell frost, that freenet is running on 192.168.1.xx ?
[11:43] <Knochi> ahhh.... ok... simple but effectfull :)
[11:43] <Knochi> have it
[11:44] <Knochi> darknet 0.7?
[11:44] <TheSeeker> so you're not running frost on the machine that has freenet running?
[11:44] <TheSeeker> yes, 0.7
[11:44] <Knochi> the hypercube fluctuates ?????
[11:44] <Knochi> help ? :)
[11:44] <TheSeeker> Sending IP Address to NSA
[11:44] <TheSeeker> ...
[11:44] <Knochi> i have seen hypercube... ugly :)
[11:45] <Knochi> ok... cannot start without node... how can i tell frost that node is running on another pc ?
[11:45] <TheSeeker> good luck :P
[11:46] <Knochi> that won't help me much suck... eh seeker
[11:47] <TheSeeker> First open the ini found in the config dir and change availableNodes=127.0.0.1:9481 to availableNodes=192.168.1.xx:9481
[11:47] <Knochi> 9481? not 8888 ?
[11:47] <TheSeeker> frost uses FCP, not the web interface
[11:47] <Knochi> ah
[11:48] <TheSeeker> (Freenet Client Protocol)
[11:48] <Knochi> availablenodes doesn't exist, should i create it?
[11:49] <Knochi> doesn't help
[11:49] <toad_> hi folks
[11:49] <TheSeeker> yeah, the node is probably rejecting the request because it' not coming from localhost.
[11:50] <Knochi> the node i have configured
[11:50] <TheSeeker> that's why I mentioned ssh tunnels before :P there's toad_: he can probably help you a lot better than I can.
[11:50] <Knochi> i can access the html page
[11:50] <toad_> dbkr: i don't think you can, but if you manage it, tell me
[11:51] <Knochi> ah toad... following problem... running freenet node on a small "always on" PC in a private network. want to access with frost from another "working PC"
[11:51] <toad_> Knochi: i believe there is a page on how to use jSite to upload a freesite on freenet somewhere, but i dunno where
[11:51] <Knochi> freenet is running and i can access the html pages with http://192.168.1.xx:88
[11:52] <dbkr> toad_: no, I ended up using a function
[11:52] <toad_> Knochi: anonymous warez are dangerous ...
[11:52] <Knochi> that's what i want to do later... first i want to take a look at frost
[11:52] <Knochi> ?
[11:52] <nextgens> hi
[11:53] <TheSeeker> Knochi: toad_ seems to be working his way through the buffer, he'll catch up in a sec :)
[11:53] <Knochi> ok
[11:53] <Knochi> i'll wait
[11:54] <nextgens> Knochi> you have to tweak .bindTo and .allowedHosts settings
[11:54] <nextgens> bindTo ought to be set to 0.0.0.0
[11:54] <nextgens> and allowedHosts to a comma separated list of ip addresses
[11:54] <Knochi> a ok
[11:55] <Knochi> done this already but set bindto to the IP adress of the node
[11:55] <Knochi> local
[11:55] <toad_> did you set them for fcp
[11:55] <toad_> or just for fproxy ?
[11:55] <Knochi> fproxy
[11:56] <toad_> you need to set them for fcp
[11:56] <toad_> so that frost can connect
[11:56] <Knochi> i set them in freenet.ini
[11:56] <Knochi> where i have to set them for fcp?
[11:57] <toad_> go to the web interface
[11:57] <toad_> click on Configuration
[11:57] <nextgens> :@
[11:57] <nextgens> DO NOT EDIT FREENET.INI BY HAND
[11:57] <Knochi> i have to, because this settings doesn't appear in the webtemplate
[11:58] <hobx> files are meant to be edited
[11:58] <toad_> Knochi: eh?
[11:58] <toad_> oh
[11:58] <toad_> argh
[11:58] <toad_> maybe we should get rid of the default NewbieMode
[11:58] <nextgens> toad_> I'm against it
[11:58] <toad_> or maybe we should at least put the allowedHosts etc settings into it
[11:58] <toad_> make them non-expert
[11:58] <Knochi> yes... where can i get expert settings ? :)
[11:58] <nextgens> it's good for usability
[11:59] <nextgens> show the full page to everyone and you'll gonna have to do long hours support
[11:59] <toad_> well if fproxy.allowedHosts/bindTo is non-expert, then fcp.allowedHosts/bindTo should also be non-expert
[11:59] <nextgens> explaining everyone settings they don't understand
[11:59] <toad_> hobx: config files which are edited by the node are awkward if the user edits them as well as the node
[11:59] <nextgens> on the other hand, we might highlight the AdvancedDarknet mode
[11:59] <toad_> hobx: we don't support comments, for example
[12:00] <nextgens> so that wizzards can switch it on
[12:00] <hobx> tip: don't use a human readable format
[12:00] <toad_> hobx: :)
[12:00] <Knochi> i'm only new to freenet... otherwise i'm fairly good understanding tcp/ip ports and this networking thingies
[12:00] <nextgens> toad_> I'm in favour of base64 encoding it
[12:00] <nextgens> or xoring
[12:00] <toad_> nextgens: well at the very least, fcp.allowedHosts/bindTo should be visible on newbie mode
[12:00] <toad_> nextgens: right?
[12:00] * Werdna (n=Andrew@) has joined #freenet
[12:00] <Knochi> thw wizard didn't show to me, too
[12:00] <nextgens> toad_> I'm not sure about that
[12:01] <nextgens> toad_> but having a 1. time useralert asking whether FCP should be allowed on the LAN might be a good idea
[12:01] <Knochi> ok how can i switch to expert settings ?
[12:01] <toad_> nextgens: we could put a big comment at the top of the file explaining that you really shouldn't edit it, if you do while the node is up it won't be read and may be overwritten, any comments will be deleted and most settings aren't written unless they're changed ?
[12:01] <nextgens> Knochi> maybe because it's not written yet ;)
[12:01] <toad_> nextgens: well, how do we detect what's a LAN? an ISP might use 10.x.y.z
[12:01] <toad_> Knochi: turn on "advanced darknet" mode
[12:01] <nextgens> we ask the user
[12:01] <toad_> Knochi: it's under fproxy
[12:02] <toad_> Knochi: that will show you everything
[12:02] <Knochi> ah foundit
[12:02] <toad_> nextgens: and if the user is an idiot?
[12:02] <nextgens> but we ask him once and fill in both bindto and allowedHost
[12:02] <Knochi> ahhh super
[12:02] <toad_> nextgens: i thought you were against asking questions in the installer?
[12:02] <nextgens> whereas if we show both to an idiot, he won't understand how to make both work
[12:02] <toad_> nextgens: we've talked about a post-setup setup on the web interface ... ?
[12:03] <nextgens> I'm against it, hence I told "1. time useralert"
[12:03] <nextgens> yes
[12:03] <nextgens> and figured out that it's what useralerts are meant for
[12:03] <toad_> well
[12:03] <nextgens> see the MeaningfullNodeNameUseralert
[12:03] <nextgens> we show it on startup
[12:04] <toad_> i think we should - at least for now - make the existing settings visible to newbies
[12:04] <nextgens> :|
[12:04] <toad_> and in the long run, we should eliminate bindTo (or make it expert, and auto-configured if not set)
[12:04] <toad_> it's not that hard to eliminate bindTo
[12:04] <CIA-5> dbkr * r10498 /trunk/freenet/src/freenet/ (7 files in 4 dirs):
[12:04] <CIA-5> Accept IPv6 localhost by default, and fix crashing issues with trying to compare IPv6 addresses with IPv4 matchers.
[12:04] <CIA-5> Fixes a bug that prevents the web interface from being accessible by default if 'localhost' is resolved by the browser to an IPv6 address.
[12:04] <toad_> and in the very long run, MAYBE we can ask the user what addresses are LAN
[12:04] <nextgens> hmm, defaulting to 0.0.0.0 is BAD
[12:04] <Knochi> what does "bindto" mean ?
[12:04] <nextgens> and won't work on some setups
[12:05] <toad_> but that requires a smart configurator
[12:05] <nextgens> like mine
[12:05] <toad_> nextgens: we don't want to bind to 0.0.0.0
[12:05] <toad_> nextgens: we want to see that allowedHosts=127.0.0.0,192.168.1.0/24, and bind to 127.0.0.1 and 192.168.1.7
[12:05] <toad_> nextgens: and not 82.32.17.1
[12:05] <toad_> nextgens: we did it in 0.5, it's not hard
[12:05] <toad_> well actually we didn't
[12:05] <nextgens> hmm
[12:06] <nextgens> it's stupid
[12:06] <toad_> i think we bound to * if there were more than one
[12:06] <nextgens> and no you didn't in .5 :)
[12:06] <toad_> nextgens: why is it stupid?
[12:06] <toad_> nextgens: it saves the user work which could easily be done by the computer
[12:06] <nextgens> because binding to more than one address means 2 running sockets
[12:06] <toad_> yes
[12:06] <toad_> we support that already
[12:06] <toad_> bindTo can be a comma separated list of addresses
[12:06] <nextgens> agreed, but it's not smart
[12:06] <toad_> how is it not smart? sockets are reasonably cheap
[12:07] <toad_> and we're only talking per interface; we don't have many interfaces
[12:07] <nextgens> ... as are threads :D
[12:07] <toad_> :)
[12:07] * makomk (n=aidan@) has left #freenet
[12:07] <toad_> we're only talking about FCP, Fproxy and TMCI
[12:07] <toad_> most people have TMCI disabled
[12:07] <toad_> so just FCP and Fproxy
[12:07] <nextgens> well, here I do have 75 iface on my freenet host
[12:07] <toad_> that's maybe 4 threads
[12:07] <toad_> nextgens: well you're a nutter
[12:07] <toad_> nextgens: we optimise the common case, and let the nutters sort it out themselves
[12:08] <nextgens> hence I don't want you/freenet to spawn 4threads/sockets per if ;)
[12:08] <toad_> by providing enough advanced options for them to do so if they need to
[12:08] <Knochi> can somebody tell me what bindto means ?
[12:08] <toad_> well you can just specify bindTo manually
[12:08] <nextgens> ok, that sounds fair
[12:08] <toad_> Knochi: your PC has more than one internet address
[12:08] <nextgens> maybe we should default to 0.0.0.0 then
[12:08] <toad_> Knochi: if it's on a LAN it'll have at least 3
[12:08] <nextgens> that's what .5 did iirc
[12:08] <Knochi> yeah i know
[12:09] <toad_> Knochi: well, bindTo is a list of IPs on which to listen for connections
[12:09] <Knochi> the local adress (localhost) the one from the network adapter and the ISP assigned
[12:09] <toad_> Knochi: right
[12:09] <toad_> Knochi: you DON'T want fproxy or FCP listening on the ISP assigned address, only on the LAN and localhost
[12:09] <toad_> nextgens: ok, i file bugs ...
[12:09] <Knochi> yeah
[12:10] <Knochi> then i should enter localhost and 192.168.1.xx
[12:10] <Knochi> ??
[12:10] <toad_> exactly
[12:10] <toad_> 127.0.0.1,192.168.1.<something>
[12:10] <toad_> you need the actual IP addresses
[12:10] <toad_> you can specify ranges in allowedHosts, but bindt
[12:10] <toad_> you can specify ranges in allowedHosts, but bindTo needs actual local addresses
[12:10] <Knochi> but i don't need to acess the node from the pc it is running on... can i enter only the private IP ?
[12:10] <nextgens> toad_> Knochi can be considered beeing a wizard/geek,whatever and since he is here he hasn't managed yet to get it working
[12:11] <nextgens> showing those settings to the average user isn't productive imo
[12:11] <toad_> Knochi: you can only enter the LAN address if you want
[12:11] <Knochi> i understand very wll nextgens
[12:11] <toad_> Knochi: but I'd put the localhost address in too personally
[12:11] <Knochi> ok then i made it already right :)
[12:11] <toad_> nextgens: that's because we *don't show the settings now*
[12:11] <nextgens> hmm
[12:11] <nextgens> ok, show it then
[12:11] <nextgens> but I'm still not convinced
[12:12] <nextgens> most people including Knochi don't make any difference in between FCP/fproxy/console
[12:12] <toad_> in the long run we need to detect the interfaces and ask the user which is the LAN / if there is a LAN
[12:12] <toad_> nextgens: well they have to if they are setting up frost to run on another machine
[12:12] <nextgens> and that means adding 6 new settings
[12:12] <Knochi> nextgen... that would be, because it isn't explained very well
[12:12] <toad_> Knochi: what is?
[12:13] <toad_> Knochi: do you see the fcp settings now?
[12:13] <Knochi> yeah#
[12:13] <nextgens> Knochi> I'm not blaming you nor even pretending it's documented :)
[12:13] <Knochi> already made
[12:13] <nextgens> documented or documentated ?
[12:13] <Knochi> documented and "explained well" is not the same
[12:13] <toad_> Knochi: is there anything wrong with the documentation on the options, now that it is visible?
[12:14] <Knochi> i haven't read the documentation yet... something like "what's that" or "help on that" links would be very helpfull
[12:14] <toad_> Knochi: i mean there is a description on the FCP option
[12:14] <toad_> Knochi: does it make sense?
[12:15] <Knochi> hmm i will read a little bit more
[12:15] <Knochi> ok have to go now... thank you very much for help
[12:15] <nextgens> the other important point we have underestimated again is that people don't read docs unless they have to
[12:15] <toad_> indeed!
[12:16] <nextgens> so a "captive" setup wizard makes sense
[12:16] <Knochi> you are right... people first want to play around and than read the documentation
[12:16] <nextgens> possibly with timing restriction so that we ensure the user does read the text :p
[12:16] <Knochi> i will return in the evening... by
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