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[0:16] * Topic is 'http://freenetproject.org | Stable: Upgrade to 5106 | Unstable:60275 |Channel logs: http://emu.freenetproject.org/irc/ | #freenet-alphatest for anyone who wants to help test 0.7 | DO NOT use the freenet packages supplied by debian! | A fresh install of freenet will take some time to become useful, be patient'
[0:16] * Set by NullAcht15 on Wed Nov 23 22:53:27 UTC 2005
[0:16] [freenode-connect VERSION]
[0:16] <nextgens> will be better with the bot
[0:17] <sbc> hehe
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[3:02] <nextgens> bbl
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[11:43] <toad_> hi folks
[11:43] <toad_> http://www.boingboing.net/2005/12/02/france_about_to_get_.html
[11:43] <toad_> http://www.fsffrance.org/news/article2005-11-25.en.html
[11:43] <toad_> http://eucd.info/petitions/index.php?petition=2 (if you are a french citizen)
[11:43] <toad_> http://www.eucd.info/index.php?2005/12/15/218-sending-an-open-letter-to-the-president-and-prime-minister-of-the-french-republic (if you aren't)
[11:46] <nextgens> hi all
[11:47] <toad_> nextgens: hi
[11:47] <nextgens> MPs are going to debate about it today again
[11:47] <toad_> i thought it was next week, between xmas and new year?
[11:47] <toad_> or is that the vote?
[11:48] <nextgens> around 3PM local time (2PM GTM)
[11:48] <nextgens> the vote will be a bit later ...
[11:48] <nextgens> but it might be today if they agree
[11:48] <toad_> nextgens: so we should send the letter through the form on the website?
[11:48] <toad_> rather than snail mailing it?
[11:49] <toad_> they don't have fax, strangely enough
[11:49] <nextgens> well, it's a bit late imho ... but either mailing it or using the form is good
[11:50] <toad_> theme?
[11:50] <toad_> communication d'un document public?
[11:51] <toad_> relayer un petition?
[11:51] <nextgens> :)) toad speaks french :)
[11:52] <nextgens> well, the third one sounds good
[11:52] <nextgens> but it's "une" petition :)
[11:53] <toad_> toad does not speak much french :)
[11:53] <toad_> i mean on the web form
[11:53] <toad_> http://www.premier-ministre.gouv.fr/acteurs/premier_ministre/ecrire
[11:55] * toad_ sends
[11:56] <toad_> <h4>Votre message a bien ?t? transmis au Service des interventions du Cabinet du Premier ministre.</h4>
[11:56] <toad_> cool
[11:57] <toad_> http://www.elysee.fr/ecrire/index.html
[11:57] <toad_> la culture?
[11:57] <nextgens> no :)
[11:57] <nextgens> our president
[11:57] <toad_> nextgens: category for this one?
[11:57] <nextgens> there's the white house and "l'?lis?e"
[11:57] * nextgens is starting Firefox
[11:58] <toad_> 4000 characters maximum? that's a very generous limit, this is 941 chars and that's a fairly packed A4 page
[11:58] <nextgens> "Les nouvelles technologies"
[11:58] <nextgens> (ITs)
[11:59] <toad_> ah
[12:00] <toad_> ah
[12:00] <toad_> it was 941 LEFT
[12:00] <toad_> :|
[12:01] <nextgens> at the bottom ;
[12:01] <toad_> huh?
[12:01] <nextgens> you can choose how you'd like them to answer
[12:01] <toad_> yeah
[12:01] * toad_ sets to par courrier electronique
[12:02] <nextgens> but specify a mail address if you'd like to be answered
[12:02] <toad_> i probably ought to specify full address etc anyway
[12:02] * toad_ does so
[12:02] <toad_> hmmm
[12:02] <toad_> 776 chars left out of 4000
[12:02] <nextgens> our LUG suggested us to write a plain mail insteed of using this form
[12:02] <toad_> hopefully some secretary somewhere will read the first hundred
[12:03] <toad_> snailmail from bristol to france will take at least 3 days this time of year
[12:03] <toad_> probably more
[12:03] <nextgens> as writting to the President is free and he might read with more attention "plain mails"
[12:03] <nextgens> yes, :/
[12:03] <toad_> okay, anything i need to change?
[12:04] * toad_ edited the message very slightly
[12:04] <nextgens> no, I don't think so
[12:04] <toad_> s/file/situation e.g.
[12:04] <toad_> ok
[12:04] * toad_ sends
[12:04] <nextgens> are you sending the french or the english version ?
[12:05] <toad_> the english version, my french is not that good
[12:05] <toad_> and it's implied by your page
[12:05] <nextgens> fine :)
[12:06] <nextgens> it's even better : non-french letter must be read by someone else I think :)
[12:06] <toad_> profession... hmmm
[12:07] <nextgens> working on a Terrorist new weapon : Freenet ;)
[12:07] <toad_> technicien/contremaitre/agent de maitrise ?
[12:07] <nextgens> no
[12:07] <nextgens> where is the form ?
[12:07] <toad_> http://www.elysee.fr/ecrire/index.html
[12:08] <toad_> put a message in, it aks you
[12:08] * ProtoX29A arrests nextgens, and all people who are able to do such terrorism stuff
[12:08] <toad_> agriculteur... no
[12:08] <toad_> artisan/commercante...
[12:08] <toad_> cadre d'enterprise
[12:09] <toad_> fonctionnaire
[12:09] <toad_> profession liberale
[12:09] <toad_> profession intellectuelle ou artistique
[12:09] <toad_> ouvrier
[12:09] <toad_> technicien/contremaitre/agent de maitrise
[12:09] <nextgens> Profession Lib?rale
[12:09] <toad_> etc
[12:09] <toad_> you see it?
[12:09] <toad_> cool
[12:10] <toad_> nextgens: cool, could you tell me what that actually means? :)
[12:10] <nextgens> it means that you are on your own ... that you don't have any direct boss
[12:10] <toad_> cool
[12:10] <nextgens> and that you don't belong to a firm
[12:10] <nextgens> belong^w aren't working for
[12:11] <toad_> and i write as ... professionnel?
[12:11] <nextgens> it depends :)
[12:11] <nextgens> you can specify both professionnal and personnal
[12:11] <toad_> particulier is individually, right?
[12:12] <toad_> how?
[12:12] <nextgens> yes
[12:12] <nextgens> you could if this form wasn't crap
[12:12] <toad_> :)
[12:12] * toad_ puts professional
[12:12] <toad_> if i worked as a missionary i wouldn't care this much :)
[12:12] <toad_> otoh if i worked in france as a programmer doing what i do now... i'd leave france
[12:13] <nextgens> well, it hasn't passed the parliement yet
[12:13] <toad_> indeed
[12:13] <nextgens> and probably won't pass fully
[12:14] <toad_> <h2>Merci de votre message,<br>Celui-ci a bien ?t? envoy? ? la Pr?sidence de la R?publique.</h2>
[12:14] <nextgens> but it remains a step in the wrong direction imho
[12:14] <toad_> YAY
[12:14] <toad_> if it establishes any of the things specified on the boingboing article, it's a monstrous step in the wrong direction
[12:14] <toad_> if it even partly establishes the first point, it's tantamount to the SSSCA
[12:15] <nextgens> toad_> if you'd like to be posted on what appends, see http://linuxfr.org/journal/ ;)
[12:15] <toad_> heh, the advert at the bottom of my copy of the boingboing article says "which side are you on? vote now"
[12:16] * toad_ babelfishes
[12:16] <toad_> ugh
[12:16] <toad_> babelfish can't handle it
[12:16] <toad_> okay
[12:17] <nextgens> http://dl-3.free.fr/52616e646f6d4956fb6bbd6fe03dcb45b35166959084e50840281120a2315dcd/DADvsi.ogg
[12:17] <nextgens> if you understant spoken french
[12:17] <nextgens> understand
[12:17] <toad_> not very well
[12:17] <nextgens> or http://rapidshare.de/files/9564943/DADvsi.ogg.html
[12:18] <nextgens> that's what has been said yesterday
[12:19] * toad_ installs a french/english dict...
[12:21] <ProtoX29A> heise.de says, software without drm will be illegal in france?!
[12:21] <toad_> http://linuxfr.org/journal/
[12:22] <toad_> nextgens: roughly what does the top post say?
[12:23] <ProtoX29A> my only french is 'ils sont fous ces francais'...
[12:24] <nextgens> toad_> the next step :
[12:24] <nextgens> one of our minister has said :
[12:25] <toad_> oh i see
[12:25] <toad_> Europe 1 is a TV channel
[12:25] <nextgens> "Well, I don't see any objection to make DRMs mandatory ; It will be a great oportunity for artists to express themselves and get paid"
[12:25] <nextgens> toad_> no, radio channel
[12:25] <toad_> near enough :)
[12:26] <nextgens> the problem is that yes forgot about free arts
[12:26] * toad_ was trying to figure out who "il" was referring to
[12:26] <toad_> but obviously the minister
[12:26] <nextgens> Donnedieu de Vabres
[12:26] <nextgens> yes
[12:26] <nextgens> I dunno what ministry he is in charge of ...
[12:27] <nextgens> it might be the new created one about ITs
[12:27] <toad_> nobody told him that making DRM mandatory will cost french business several billion euro :)
[12:27] <nextgens> hehe
[12:27] <toad_> (as they'll be legally compelled to upgrade to Vista when it comes out!)
[12:27] <nextgens> he doesn't care as long as he get paid from majors ;)
[12:28] <toad_> sorry, what are majors?
[12:29] <nextgens> MPAA/BSA/RIAA ... people willing to pass the law
[12:29] <toad_> :|
[12:29] <nextgens> but when we say Majors in french it's more specifical to Music
[12:29] <toad_> would the law in fact compel folk to upgrade to the best available DRM?
[12:30] <nextgens> the problem whith his statement is also the "Personnal copy"
[12:30] <nextgens> In france, you are allowed to do a personnal copy of almost anything
[12:30] <toad_> or is it simply that MS will issue a minor patch for win XP, office etc that introduces minimal DRM to comply with government requirements?
[12:30] <toad_> nextgens: that's nice, not the case here :(
[12:30] <nextgens> and you are allowed to lend it as long as it remains "for familly use"
[12:31] <nextgens> but he is willing to deny that, making DRMs mandatory
[12:31] <toad_> that's the old fair use versus DRM argument yeah
[12:31] <toad_> we can copy stuff for journalism, or personal research
[12:32] <nextgens> ATM they are speaking about imposing DRMs or not
[12:32] <toad_> there are also obviously explicit exceptions for academia etc
[12:32] <nextgens> the technology hasn't been choosed yet ...
[12:32] <nextgens> but bet that M$ will winn
[12:32] <nextgens> but bet that M$ will win
[12:32] <toad_> well, M$ win XP does not include copy protection support along the lines that would be required
[12:33] <toad_> presumably the govt has an assurance that they will produce something that doesn't require monstrous hardware upgrades?
[12:33] <nextgens> the next step will be TPM obviously as soon as they will realize that DRMs is useless unless you do use trusted harware
[12:34] <toad_> writing a file to a CD would have to check for a watermark, for DRM code, and maybe against a central database
[12:34] <toad_> indeed, but TPM isn't ready yet
[12:34] <toad_> afaik there isn't any TPM capable hardware out yet
[12:34] <nextgens> there is
[12:34] <nextgens> you are wrong :)
[12:34] <toad_> i heard the dual-core stuff was going to include it, but i also heard that it hadn't
[12:35] <toad_> and you need a trusted OS to run on it; Vista won't be out for another year
[12:35] <nextgens> agreed
[12:35] <toad_> nextgens: what hardware?
[12:35] <nextgens> but they haven't realized yet that TPM will be the next logical step ...
[12:36] <nextgens> the problem is that if this law passes, it will be logical to impose TPM as soon as TPM enabled hardware will appear
[12:36] <nextgens> toad_> specialized hardware
[12:36] <nextgens> not x86 based yet
[12:36] <toad_> well, if they agree to a national filtering infrastructure, then not only will freenet be a) illegal and b) actively attacked, but also it will be a relatively minor step forward to set up a national register of copyrighted and illegal works...
[12:37] <nextgens> toad_> I need to go, sorry
[12:37] <nextgens> will be back in 2 hours
[12:37] <toad_> ok
[12:37] <toad_> seeya
[12:38] <nextgens> that's why freenet is important to me : we WILL need it :'(
[12:38] <toad_> we have a document, lets call it "the constitution"
[12:38] <toad_> we have a national database of illegal files tied into everyone's trusted computer
[12:38] <toad_> we get a court order
[12:38] <toad_> the above system then deletes every copy on anyone's PC
[12:38] <toad_> (this is technically the step after TPM)
[12:39] <toad_> or we skip the court order and enter it directly, and hope nobody finds out :)
[12:39] <ProtoX29A> whats about my own fucking music?
[12:39] <toad_> accidentally, of course
[12:39] <nextgens> has a new bot joined the channel ?
[12:39] <nextgens> CIA-9> hello :))
[12:39] <toad_> nextgens: seeya
[12:39] <nextgens> toad_> you'll see next time you commit ;)
[12:40] <toad_> of course it would work for child porn too
[12:40] <toad_> and terrorism
[12:40] <toad_> it'd SOLVE ALL OUR PROBLEMS, and make Microsoft rich!
[12:40] <toad_> bbl
[12:41] <ProtoX29A> couldn't we nuke microsoft with say a h-bomb away?
[12:41] <toad_> :)
[12:41] <toad_> violence generally begets a) sympathy for the perceived victim, and b) more violence
[12:41] <ProtoX29A> perhaps european goverments too
[12:41] <toad_> we need to outcompete MS on a level playing field, but we also need to try to make sure the playing field stays level
[12:42] <toad_> hopefully when they try to spread this, it'll go through the EP
[12:42] <toad_> the EP is relatively easy to lobby; we've had major victories before (e.g. software patents)
[12:42] <ProtoX29A> violence doesnt beget sympathy, media does
[12:42] <toad_> well, bbiab
[12:43] <ProtoX29A> we need a bunch of brainwash tv-stations, that say "THERE IS NO TERRORISM, DON BE AFRAID, THERE IS NO TERRORISM, DONT BE AFREID, THERE IS NO ..."
[12:57] * sbc (n=sbc@83.72.201.52.ip.tele2adsl.dk) has joined #freenet
[13:01] <toad_> actually
[13:02] <toad_> a national hash database wouldn't work *that* well because people would change files slightly
[13:02] <toad_> what WOULD work would be full traceability
[13:02] <toad_> here's how it works
[13:02] <toad_> when you install vista 3.0, you enter your national ID number, contact details, etc, and click through a EULA
[13:02] <toad_> this establishes your Content Creator License
[13:02] <toad_> this is of course revocable
[13:03] <toad_> when you edit a document with a trusted editor (and non-trusted editors are of course illegal), it establishes an audit trail
[13:03] <toad_> all this goes into the national database
[13:03] <toad_> so if you have a document you can trace back its originator, all who contributed to it, etc
[13:03] <toad_> very useful functionality, really
[13:04] <toad_> of course some people will prefer not to be contacted about their work; there'd be lots of ways to tweak it to make the user happy
[13:04] * CIA-9 (i=cia@flapjack.navi.cx) Quit ()
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[13:04] <toad_> now, if the government wants to ban a document, they find the original
[13:04] <toad_> and then they span the tree
[13:04] <toad_> and they can then delete not only all copies of the original, but *ALL DERIVED WORKS*
[13:05] <toad_> another advantage of the system is that it is possible to provide quite sophisticated fair use rights (at the mercy of the authors and the software writers of course)
[13:05] <toad_> so that's the next-but-one-generation TPM system that will end all piracy, all free software, and all free speech :)
[13:06] <toad_> china would love it, but they'll have to write their own, since they're not going to buy MS's :)
[13:06] * greycat (i=rfc1413@wooledge.org) has joined #freenet
[13:06] <toad_> hi greycat
[13:07] <greycat> hi
[13:07] <toad_> greycat: check the last 50 lines or so of paranoid rantings relating to the french attempt to introduce mandatory DRM
[13:07] <toad_> in the IRC log: http://emu.freenetproject.org/irc/index.php?date=2005-12-21
[13:09] <toad_> greycat: the actual news is at the beginning of the log, from <toad_> hi
[13:09] <arcatan> mandatory DRM sounds, well, stupid
[13:09] <toad_> greycat: the actual news is at the beginning of the log, from <toad_> hi folks
[13:09] <toad_> arcatan: not stupid at all, very clever
[13:09] <greycat> yeah, I can skip stuff :)
[13:09] <toad_> utterly evil, but not stupid
[13:10] <arcatan> toad_: well, yeah, I don't mean stupid as in stupid
[13:10] <toad_> :|
[13:10] <greycat> you mean stupid as in "detrimental to humanity"?
[13:10] <toad_> don't underestimate Lord Voldemort/Sauron/Beelzebub :)
[13:10] * arcatan checks what detrimental means...
[13:10] <arcatan> greycat: yup
[13:10] <toad_> (who was the beastie that send sauron? Morgoth, that's the one)
[13:28] * mazzanet (n=irc@unaffiliated/mazzanet) Quit (No route to host)
[13:52] * roo9 (i=roo9@66.230.143.178) has joined #freenet
[13:52] <roo9> what would be the best version of freenet to use at the moment? I'm just looking to have a good connection
[13:55] <toad_> roo9: the stable branch
[13:55] <toad_> build 5106
[13:56] <toad_> if you want to be in on the ground floor for the next version, join #freenet-alphatest and we'll help you install a 0.7 alpha node
[13:56] <toad_> but basically for a working freenet you want the stable build number 5106
[13:56] <toad_> from http://downloads.freenetproject.org/
[13:59] <roo9> with .7 am I going to get connections to current nodes, I don't want to be stuck connected to a very small # of nodes
[14:01] <sbc> roo9: Then you want stable.
[14:03] <roo9> k, stable doesn't seem to be getting a solid connection to the network though, I can't remember though what metrics to look at to determine this though
[14:08] <sbc> roo9: The number of open connection is a good indicator. Look here: /servlet/nodeinfo/networking/ocm. On a new node, you should not expect anything in the first couple of hours.
[14:08] <sbc> .. or, you should expect open connections, but to to be able to get any content through the node.
[14:09] <roo9> hrm, I have 0 open connections
[14:10] <sbc> roo9: That's not good. Did you open your freenet port in your firewall?
[14:10] <sbc> And where did you get your seednodes from?
[14:11] <roo9> yes, freenet port is open, i verified that it is working, i set the right IP in the config file ( have nat
[14:11] <roo9> i got the seednodes from the download off the website, is there a better source?
[14:12] <sbc> roo9: I could give you mine. They might work better. Don't know how old the ones on the website are.
[14:23] <roo9> sbc: actually getting a good connection now :-)
[14:27] * hobx (n=hobx@c83-248-105-188.bredband.comhem.se) Quit ("Client exiting")
[14:28] <sbc> roo9: My seednodes are great quality. Only the finest nsa servers get allowed onto my seednodes list :P
[14:29] * roo9 hunkers down for a visit from the secret police
[14:29] <sbc> tell them I said "Hi".
[14:46] <roo9> it actually wouldn't suprise me too much in this country, which is a sad, sad thing, we have people who get visits from the homeland security people because they check ceritian books out of the library and a president who thinks its OK to wiretap phone conversations without a warrant
[14:54] * FallingBuzzard (n=FallingB@66.151.22.70) has joined #freenet
[15:05] <Ash-Fox> roo9, why don't you use encrypted phone communications then?
[15:07] <nextgens> hi
[15:08] <Ash-Fox> Hello nextgens
[15:10] <nextgens> sbc> seednodes should be updated every 3 hours or so on downloads.freenetproject.org ...
[15:19] <sbc> nextgens: But how is the quality of those nodes? It dosn't change much if you update the list of the same overloaded nodes every 3 hours:)
[15:20] <nextgens> they are 15 sources ATM
[15:20] <nextgens> most of them are unreachable though
[15:20] <nextgens> :/
[15:21] <sbc> :(
[15:22] <sbc> nextgens: How much acces do you need to add a node as a source? Could you add a .ref file that is avaliabil over normal http?
[15:22] <nextgens> yes, sure
[15:23] <nextgens> even a [gb ]ziped
[15:31] <nextgens> mms://wmt-live.event.oleane.net/seance-assemblee
[15:35] <nextgens> (DADVSI current speech about it)
[15:35] <nextgens> they are going to speak about it tomorrow it seems
[15:35] <nextgens> :/
[15:36] <nextgens> was planned today!
[17:14] <nextgens> yay, our MP's are talking about free software :))
[17:25] <sanity> about that dumb law they were going to pass?
[17:25] <sanity> i mean, how did that even get as far as it did?
[17:26] <sanity> nextgens: any english language news you could point me to about it?
[17:34] * protok0l (n=sodkghks@user-0c9h0lq.cable.mindspring.com) Quit ("Leaving")
[17:51] <toad_> lol sbc
[17:51] <toad_> <roo9> it actually wouldn't suprise me too much in this country, which is a sad, sad thing, we have people who get visits from the homeland security people because they check ceritian books out of the library and a president who thinks its OK to wiretap phone conversations without a warrant
[17:52] <toad_> the former is worrying
[17:52] <toad_> surveillance, ID cards etc, aren't such a big deal though IMHO - i'm more worked up about internment, and the ongoing attempts to utterly lock down cyberspace
[17:53] <toad_> yay, my money arrived!
[17:53] <roo9> well, I think that ID cards can be made to be OK
[17:54] <roo9> by some kind of distributed PKI identity system
[17:54] <toad_> well
[17:54] <toad_> I dunno about ID cards, i think they're inevitable, but I certainly don't want to pay 500E for them
[17:54] <roo9> no, not at all needed
[17:55] <toad_> i don't like them really
[17:55] <toad_> i can see a number of real advantages
[17:55] <toad_> and many reasons to be concerned
[17:55] <roo9> right now, companies can produce cards that have unmutable and supposedly unchangeable unique ids
[17:55] <roo9> couple this with a central database, based on a PKI system
[17:55] <toad_> but on balance, it's MUCH less of an issue than e.g. internment, outsourced torture, etc
[17:56] <roo9> or not so outsourced torture for that matter
[17:56] <toad_> roo9: well they tried that too, and got their fingers burnt
[17:57] <roo9> say your employer wants to give you access to their building, you send them your public key, they sign it with their private key, that gets stored in some kind of database, then a particular resource (door lock :P) can verify that you are authorized to access that resource (door)
[17:57] <toad_> roo9: better to hand it over to countries with expertise and recent experience in such matters, and in covering them up
[17:57] <roo9> i'm not a crypto expert, but I know several, and they assure me that it's possible
[17:57] <roo9> the torture issue is very bad, this domestic wiretapping thing is worse really, because it says alot about bush
[17:58] <roo9> like: why didn't he just ask FISA
[17:58] <roo9> the court setup specifically for this situation that has only denied about 4 out of 5000 requests for domestic survaliance
[17:58] <toad_> roo9: sure, though people can steal your token if it contains your privkey
[17:59] * roo9 == not crypto expert, those who are assure me there is some voodo to fix this
[18:00] <toad_> roo9: sure, you confirm it with biometrics, you make it tamper-proof, etc
[18:00] <roo9> and FISA allows you to start wiretapping and wait up to 3 days before you even notify them, and you can continue (or start) wiretapping right up until ( if ) FISA denies th request
[18:00] <toad_> but that's anything but foolproof
[18:00] <roo9> no, there was some kind of key voodo that allows you to protect your private key, i don't recall
[18:00] <toad_> roo9: you're being watched (electronically, not locally) all the time. get used to it. encrypt your telecommunications. :)
[18:00] <toad_> roo9: well, you have to have your privkey SOMEWHERE
[18:01] <toad_> it's true that your access token can be something else, something signed by or generated from it
[18:01] <toad_> but you need to protect your privkey
[18:01] * roo9 punches friends who won't wake up and come in here and explain it
[18:01] <toad_> and that's hard
[18:01] <roo9> he had a solution for this, but I was rather drunk that night
[18:02] <toad_> bbl
[18:02] <roo9> i encrypt everything that I don't want other people to read, but in reailty i'm not so concerned with my privacy, i publish my entire life on my blog, I publish my web browsing history, my music listening habits, my feed reading habits (full OPML and attention data)
[18:02] <toad_> indeed
[18:03] <toad_> there are two big issues
[18:03] <toad_> one is the excesses of the war on terror
[18:03] <toad_> in particular, internment and torture. and human surveillance. and moves towards ubiquitous surveillance.
[18:03] <roo9> the fallacy that the measures taken are because of the war on terror
[18:03] <roo9> and the fallacy that they will help
[18:03] <toad_> the other is the whole DRM bull****, which is security-for-the-megacorps-against-the-users
[18:04] <roo9> and even have a system so that (based on wireless SSID, and IP address and other factors) that allows people to know *where* I am (also updates the music based on what's playing in iTunes )
[18:04] <toad_> an attempt to take complete control of all the world's computers, and eliminate the evil communist open source movement
[18:04] <roo9> well, that shit in france for instance
[18:04] <toad_> [11:43] <toad_> http://www.boingboing.net/2005/12/02/france_about_to_get_.html
[18:04] <toad_> [11:43] <toad_> http://www.fsffrance.org/news/article2005-11-25.en.html
[18:04] <toad_> [11:43] <toad_> http://eucd.info/petitions/index.php?petition=2 (if you are a french citizen)
[18:04] <toad_> [11:43] <toad_> http://www.eucd.info/index.php?2005/12/15/218-sending-an-open-letter-to-the-president-and-prime-minister-of-the-french-republic (if you aren't)
[18:04] <roo9> hehe
[18:04] <toad_> bbl
[18:05] <roo9> k
[18:05] <roo9> I have always wanted to go live in france for a while, but if they pass a law like that i couldn't, I make my living from writing OSS, and I would be enjoined from doing so while there it's disgusting
[18:06] <toad_> me too
[18:06] <toad_> i've gotta go lend a friend a couple of video games
[18:07] <roo9> k, i'll ttyl
[18:07] <toad_> we may be able to talk later though
[18:07] <toad_> seeya
[18:07] <roo9> i'll hang around :)
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[18:14] <roo9> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4550314.stm
[18:22] * roo9 (i=roo9@66.230.143.178) Quit (adams.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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[18:37] <danderson> roo9: fear not, the resistance is active
[18:37] <danderson> we're not about to let this slip by passively.
[18:38] <danderson> there have been speakers all afternoon in the Assembl?e Nationale opposing the project.
[18:39] <roo9> yay danderson!
[18:39] <danderson> all speaking of the threat to free software
[18:39] <danderson> and the thread to individual rights, the threat to interoperability, etc.
[18:39] <danderson> nearly over now.
[18:39] <roo9> does it seriously have any chance of passing?
[18:40] <roo9> a few senators here introduced legislation to close the "analog hole", but I know it won't pass, it's ridiculious
[18:43] <danderson> well
[18:43] <danderson> before watching this afternoon's speeches, I'd have said it was certain of passing
[18:44] <danderson> now, if anyone in the assembly has a brain, I'd say that the most likely case is that it will be amended in such a way that it actually becomes fairly benign.
[18:44] <roo9> "only applies on the 3rd of every month when the 3rd of the month is a friday"
[18:44] <danderson> heh, not quite
[18:45] <danderson> but for instance, downloading media off the internet would remain (as it is now) assimilated to copying for private use, which french legislation authorizes
[18:46] <danderson> so, technically, "sensible" p2p downloading of protected media would be legal.
[18:46] <roo9> assuming you own/owned (but broke -- the dog at the CD!) it
[18:46] <danderson> yes
[18:47] <danderson> the point being - downloading to get around DRM on the cd would remain legal
[18:47] <danderson> which is good.
[18:47] <roo9> yep
[18:47] <roo9> though DRM on cds is what should be illegal
[18:47] <danderson> Also, reverse engineering and circumventing DRM measures to ensure interoperability would be protected from attacks.
[18:47] <danderson> this is true
[18:47] <danderson> but this is not the debate of the day
[18:47] <roo9> it's horrible here, none of that is legal
[18:48] <roo9> DMCA and all
[18:48] <roo9> i have to leave this POS country, go somewhere with some freedom"
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[18:53] <roo9> is it possible to reload the freenet config file without restarting freenet and dropping all active connections?
[18:53] <greycat> no; but the node will re-read *some* of the fields
[18:54] <roo9> when?
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[18:54] <greycat> freenet@griffon:~$ java -jar freenet.jar --onTheFly
[18:54] <greycat> targetMaxThreads, tfTolerableQueueDelay, tfAbsoluteMaxThreads, inputBandwidthLimit, outputBandwidthLimit, configUpdateInterval, seednodesUpdateInterval, aggressiveGC, maxOpenConnectionsNewbieFraction, maxHopsToLive, newNodePollInterval, announcementAttempts, announcementThreads, initialRequests, initialRequestHTL, requestDelayCutoff, successfulDelayCutoff, requestSendTimeCutoff, successfulSendTimeCutoff, logLevel, logLevelDetail
[18:55] <greycat> --configUpdateInterval <minutes>
[18:55] <roo9> oh, so at an interval... htm
[18:55] <roo9> *hrm
[18:55] <greycat> not sure what that translates to in the config file, or what the default is
[18:55] <roo9> it's commented out by default, not sure if that uses the default or if that disables it
[18:56] <greycat> that would mean it uses the default
[18:56] <roo9> so every 5 minutes then
[18:56] <greycat> and I'm sure it's enabled by default; I just don't know the interval
[18:57] <roo9> well, the config file has 5, so i'm assuming that's the default
[18:57] <roo9> if not, 1 of them needs to be changed
[19:02] -lilo- [Global Notice] Hi all. A few minutes ago, we experienced some server problems due to configuration issues with the current scale of spambot filtering. We've made configuration changes and we believe we should be in good shape. We'll keep you posted on anything further that may need to be done, and hopefully the issues are resolved for now.
[19:03] -lilo- [Global Notice] Thank for your patience, and thank you for using freenode. Have a great evening!
[19:21] <Hadaka> this is a really lame thing to be asking here about, so please forgive me - but what do you guys think of hamachi?
[19:22] <danderson> (excuse my french) merde.
[19:23] <Hadaka> hmmh, is it simply a vpn, nuttin more?
[19:23] <danderson> The proposal to adjourn the debate and return the project to a commission, with directives to study and refine the proposal further, has been rejected.
[19:26] <danderson> roo9: don't pack just yet.
[19:40] <roo9> that's not good, unless they intend to have a straight no vote
[19:52] * Elly (i=elly@ool-457856bb.dyn.optonline.net) Quit ("Leaving")
[20:30] <danderson> roo9: the debate, examination and voting on the 250 proposed amendments will start momentarily
[20:34] <roo9> i wonder if BCC has coverage
[20:34] * roo9 flips
[20:57] <nextgens> hi
[21:01] <danderson> roo9: if you understand french (legislative french that is), there is a live stream of the debate on http://wmt-live.event.oleane.net/seance-assemblee
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[21:18] <roo9> danderson: i barely understand legislative english
[21:19] <danderson> roo9: can't blame you. Anyway, they've started voting amendments now.
[21:19] <roo9> they vote on every single one?
[21:19] <nextgens> yes
[21:19] <nextgens> they are 250 amendments
[21:19] <danderson> yeah
[21:19] <danderson> each amendment has a small debate
[21:20] <danderson> it is defended by those proposing it, then replied to by the opposition, and then a vote is carried out.
[21:20] <nextgens> but most of them won't be debated as the personne requesting it is missing
[21:20] <danderson> say 10 to 15 minutes per amendment
[21:20] <danderson> yeah, if the person defending the amendment is absent, it is skipped.
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[21:40] <roo9> holy shit
[21:40] <roo9> that's going to take forever
[21:53] * greycat (i=rfc1413@wooledge.org) Quit ("This time the bullet cold rocked ya / A yellow ribbon instead of a swastika")
[22:13] <nextgens> well
[22:13] <nextgens> *FLASH*
[22:13] <nextgens> breaking news from the front :
[22:14] <nextgens> now we can download as much warez as we'd like in France as soon as we pay a small tax
[22:15] <nextgens> danderson> were sacem's representatives for a gainst that ?
[22:16] <danderson> nextgens: if the sacem had it's way, we'd pay a small tax per second spent online
[22:16] <nextgens> danderson> were sacem's representatives for or a gainst that ?
[22:16] <nextgens> danderson> were sacem's representatives for or against that ?
[22:16] <nextgens> raah
[22:17] <danderson> nextgens: I don't know. Sacem's representatives aren't (thanks zark) invited to the debate of the elected representatives
[22:17] <nextgens> :)
[22:18] <nextgens> and do we know who will be in charge of setting the amount due for the tax ?
[22:24] <danderson> I'd imagine the amendment takes care of that, but I don't have the fulltext available atm
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[22:33] <toad_> nextgens: how's it going?
[22:33] <toad_> and i don't think they _can_ make it legal to download warez, i think the EUCD requires punishment of non-profit violators
[22:34] <toad_> they can impose the tax anyway however :)
[22:35] <nextgens> toad_> http://recherche.assemblee-nationale.fr/amendements/visualiser.asp?k2dockey=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eassemblee%2Dnationale%2Efr%2F12%2Famendements%2F1206%2F120600154%2Easp%40AMDT&serverSpec=localhost:9920&querytext=%3CAND%3E%281206%3CIN%3ENUM%5FINIT%29&OrigQuery=&QueryParser=Simple&logTitle=&dtype=2&collection=AMDT&allsite=&ResultStart=151&ResultDocStart=152&maxDocs=500&ResultCount=10
[22:35] <nextgens> sorry, in french
[22:37] <nextgens> they have legalised the right to do "private copy"
[22:38] <nextgens> when you do own a licence, you are allowed to get a crack/whatever to ensure you will be able to use your licence even if you loose your original copy
[22:38] <nextgens> even if you have lost even
[22:43] <roo9> danderson: any news?
[22:44] <danderson> roo9: yes. An amendment was adopted, making the downloading of music (and films 4 years old or more) fall under the right to private copying.
[22:45] <danderson> meaning that, if you have given retribution to the authors, you are entitled to obtain the music from p2p networks, legally.
[22:46] <danderson> which is good, because without this amendment the project would have very much assimilated p2p == piracy
[22:46] <danderson> now less so
[22:54] <roo9> that is pretty good
[22:54] <roo9> better than here
[22:56] <CIA-9> nextgens * r7731 /branches/freenet-freejvms/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Patch to disable CPUID : I'm about to give up ... it won\'t work as expected with the current freenet-ext.jar ... Will see after Christmas ;)
[22:58] <roo9> why did I think that processing a wav->mp3 would produce different results every time, they all have the same md5sum
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[23:52] <toad_> [22:38] <nextgens> when you do own a licence, you are allowed to get a crack/whatever to ensure you will be able to use your licence even if you loose your original copy
[23:52] <toad_> woooh, cool
[23:52] <toad_> that's very nice
[23:52] <toad_> everyone assumes you can, morally you ought to be able to... but you can't, in the UK
[23:53] <toad_> so what's the conclusion then? if any?
[23:54] * zeboul (n=zeboul@pha75-2-81-57-114-186.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #freenet
[23:54] <zeboul> hello
[23:54] <toad_> hi
[23:55] <zeboul> how do you do well?
[23:55] <toad_> eh?
[23:55] <danderson> toad_: no conclusion yet. However, the amendment only covers music, and films published 4 years or more ago.
[23:55] <danderson> toad_: warezing software is not yet legalized.
[23:55] <toad_> :)
[23:55] <toad_> warezing software is dumb
[23:56] <zeboul> free software is better
[23:56] <zeboul> :)
[23:56] <danderson> exactly
[23:56] <toad_> well, to be fair, if you keep a hash of the CD, and download a new copy of it...
[23:56] <toad_> it might be nice
[23:56] <toad_> as a form of backup
[23:57] <toad_> hmmm i took a cash advance on my credit card for 200.00 two days ago and it still hasn't shown up on online banking... is this normal?
[23:57] <danderson> free culture, if that is what comes of this, would be cool
[23:58] <toad_> it's obviously a very good thing if they try to get nonsense through like this in sneaky ways, and all the MPs with liberal views on copyright turn out and vote completely the other way :)
[23:59] <toad_> the thing with being able to download a copy of stuff you legally own is really cool, we can't do that here
Irc logs of #freenet : 2008 2007 2006 2005
These logs were automatically created by FreenetLogBot on chat.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.