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[1:24] <rah> how can I test if my node can accept connections using telnet?
[1:24] <rah> ie, what kind of input can I provide it to get a conclusive response?
[1:26] <Sugadude> rah: Your external IP and freenet's port.
[1:27] <rah> erm
[1:27] <rah> duh
[1:27] <rah> that's what I need in order to run telnet
[1:27] <rah> I'm asking what I need to type to get a conclusive response
[1:28] <rah> or any response, for that matter
[1:28] <Sugadude> Just a few random characters, until your node realizes something is wrong and kills the connection.
[1:29] <rah> I've done that
[1:29] <rah> that's not really a response
[1:29] <rah> I mean, I want it to give me data back
[1:29] <Sugadude> It's good enough.
[1:29] <rah> not really
[1:30] <rah> the inbound connection count for my node is 0
[1:30] <Sugadude> Yes it is.
[1:30] <rah> over uptimes of days
[1:30] <rah> and I've been running the node for months
[1:31] <Sugadude> That's normal, sometimes.
[1:31] <rah> "sometimes normal"? :)
[1:34] <Sugadude> Well it's normal, since it usually means that other nodes don't want (or need) to connect to your node. But it might indicate that other nodes *can't* connect to your node.
[1:35] <Sugadude> You can try to set up another (possibly transient) Freenet node and only give it your external IP/port as a seed and see whether you get a connection. Maybe.
[1:35] <rah> hmm
[1:35] <rah> the not being able to connect is what concerned me
[1:36] <rah> I may try setting up another node
[1:36] <rah> thanks
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[4:15] <khafra> I did all the "get freenet working with a Firewall/NAT stuff, but it still doesn't work with my NAT, won't connect to any other nodes.
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[8:25] <khafra> I still did all the "get freenet working with a Firewall/NAT stuff, but it still doesn't work with my NAT, won't connect to any other nodes.
[9:33] <sleon> khafra: hi
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[11:42] <khafra> sleon: heya.
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[12:07] <khafra> The pace of action on this channel is somewhere between grass growing and empires crumbling.
[12:12] <Sugadude> Most Freeneters are from the US, so they're probably sleeping at the moment.
[12:53] <toad_> :)
[12:53] <toad_> sorry
[12:53] <toad_> was busy with other thing most of yesterday
[12:53] <toad_> will get to work soon today however
[12:53] <toad_> SSKs await!
[12:55] <Sugadude> Aren't these implemented already?
[13:10] <Tubbie> not in 0.7
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[15:28] <toad_> [19:00] <greycat> write once, run anywhere! well, almost anywhere... well, if the user has the right version...
[15:28] <toad_> write once, debug everywhere!
[15:29] <toad_> actually to be fair, freenet runs on windows with minimal platform issues, having been developed almost entirely on linux
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[16:15] <NullAcht15> that's two platforms. Three if you count Linux on amd64. In my personal experience, Java programs usually cause way more portability headaches than a well-written C++ program
[16:17] <NullAcht15> The only reason why Java could be considered better portable is the availability of semi-decent cross-platform libraries for handling GUIs, network stuff, threads and similar things in the default Classpath
[16:18] <greycat> they consider it "more portable" because you don't have to recompile it for each target platform. unfortunately you have to compile the runtime engine on each platform... and oh, wait, that's not Free is it?
[16:18] <toad_> the problem is that at any given time we don't have a reliable windows coder
[16:18] <NullAcht15> But by now you can have that in C++, too, with Qt, and with much more FOSS-friendly licensing
[16:19] <toad_> if it was written in C++ we would need one
[16:19] <toad_> anyway it's far too late to change language now
[16:19] <NullAcht15> IMO, most of the time the "runtime engine" is a major pain in the behind
[16:19] <toad_> and cutting C++ down to a usable, high level, garbage collected, subset + libraries which will avoid buffer overflows and so on basically means java anyway
[16:20] <NullAcht15> toad_: Right you, are, but we just need to bitch about it from time to time
[16:20] <toad_> NullAcht15: i agree
[16:20] <toad_> NullAcht15: GCJ is the future
[16:21] <NullAcht15> Garbage collection? Hm, I'm not sure this is a good idea. Garbage collection pretty much always means a big performance hit and significantly increased memory consumption
[16:22] <NullAcht15> (Because the programmers won't bother freeing their memory themselves anymore and gc is never quite that efficient)
[16:22] <toad_> you will still get space leaks from time to time with GC
[16:22] <toad_> however, GC saves programmer hours and frankly that's all that matters within reason
[16:23] <toad_> it saves a lot of programmer hours, in fact
[16:23] <greycat> it can be argued that the increased memory consumption of the GC makes up for the decreased memory consumption of not having a memory leak...
[16:23] <toad_> that depends on the GC
[16:23] <greycat> and the programmer
[16:23] <toad_> yes
[16:23] <Sugadude> And the phase of the moon.
[16:24] <toad_> well, for example, a simple monolithic GC takes up virtually no memory
[16:24] <toad_> it only uses memory when it's actually doing a mark/sweep operation
[16:24] <toad_> now, what IS a problem with GC is that you have to page everything in to do a GC
[16:24] <toad_> it completely messes up the virtual memory management
[16:25] <toad_> however IMHO this is as much to do with primitive kernels as GC itself (*cough* Hurd/L4 *cough*)
[16:25] <NullAcht15> toad_: Yes, GC means less work for the programmer, but IMO this is a good trade-off only in special cases
[16:26] <toad_> such as when you are trying to write something which hasn't been done before, and don't have a budget
[16:26] <toad_> e.g. freenet
[16:26] <NullAcht15> Namely In-house solution in some well-funded organisation, where you can just invest the money you save in development into better hw
[16:26] <toad_> i accept that there are cases where it is important to get the best possible performance regardless of manpower costs
[16:26] <toad_> but this isn't one of them!
[16:27] <greycat> manpower is definitely not a resource Freenet has in abundance
[16:27] <NullAcht15> Well, the result of this is Freenet being practically unusable in quite a number of cases
[16:28] <greycat> you're welcome to write your own node
[16:29] <NullAcht15> The idea behind this was, if I recall correctly, that Fred is only a proof-of-concept, and after that's done properly for once, third-party programmers will provide alternative, optimized code
[16:29] <toad_> NullAcht15: just how much does 128MB of RAM cost nowadays exactly?
[16:29] <toad_> $30?
[16:29] <greycat> once the algorithms and protocols stabilize, that might even happen...
[16:29] <toad_> greycat: indeed
[16:29] <NullAcht15> But the freenet project isn't stabilizing, FNP sin't being documented. It has been SIX YEARS now
[16:29] <toad_> the problem is not GC, it's java-versus-free-software
[16:30] <toad_> NullAcht15: your point?
[16:30] <NullAcht15> toad_: 128MB is definitely not enough for fred nowaadys
[16:30] <toad_> if we do things the hard way, as you seem to be suggesting, then it will take even longer
[16:30] <greycat> it's not stabilizing because it's still undergoing development
[16:30] <nextgens> hi
[16:30] <greycat> 0.7 is practically a full rewrite of the whole thing
[16:31] <toad_> nextgens: hi
[16:31] <toad_> NullAcht15: we will see what 0.7 needs
[16:31] <toad_> certainly routing will need much less RAM
[16:32] <toad_> oh, does anyone know a good java database ? we will need something for the datastore...
[16:32] <nextgens> odbc ? :)
[16:32] <toad_> we need to keep the datastore index on disk, although we may want a bloom filter in RAM to optimize the common case of data-is-not-in-store
[16:32] <nextgens> would be cool if we can store data almost everywhere
[16:33] <toad_> nextgens: probably too slow and too heavy though
[16:33] <nextgens> isn't there any bercklay db implementation in java ?
[16:35] <nextgens> http://www.sleepycat.com/products/bdbje.html
[16:36] <nextgens> berkeley, sorry
[16:38] <toad_> nextgens: looks good
[16:38] <toad_> nextgens: transactional?
[16:38] <toad_> i mean data integrity, we don't need ACID
[16:39] <toad_> The architecture is based on a log-based, no-overwrite storage system,
[16:39] <toad_> enabling high concurrency and speed while providing ACID transactions
[16:39] <toad_> and record-level locking.
[16:39] <toad_> hmmm
[16:39] <toad_> does that mean that disk usage will increase indefinitely?
[16:39] <nextgens> yes, it's transactional
[16:40] <nextgens> yes, it's not round-robin
[16:40] <toad_> sorry?
[16:41] <toad_> will disk usage increase to infinity with time in normal usage?
[16:41] <toad_> also, is JMX on by default?
[16:41] <toad_> obviously JMX is nice, but we want it under our control
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[16:43] <nextgens> the english for this word isn't round-robin ... :/
[16:43] * nextgens is looking for the right word
[16:43] <NullAcht15> argh, does anyone have an address of a usable, publically accessible nameserver handy? My stupid ISPs nameserver is telling me the ip of www.google.com is 127.0.0.1
[16:43] <greycat> run your own
[16:43] <nextgens> root servers ?
[16:43] <PrototypeX29A> oh you are google
[16:43] <greycat> root servers won't recurse for you, naturally
[16:44] <PrototypeX29A> NullAcht15: where to i find a website containing "britney spears" and "porn"?
[16:44] <toad_> nextgens: looks good to me
[16:44] <nextgens> NullAcht15> try 212.27.32.132
[16:45] <toad_> heh
[16:45] <toad_> PrototypeX29A: freenet? :)
[16:45] <NullAcht15> seems to be fixed now anyway. was probably just a temporary glitch
[16:45] <PrototypeX29A> toad_: yeah, thats what the commercials say
[16:46] <greycat> freenet could probably find you an underage impersonator who sort of looks like her...
[16:46] <PrototypeX29A> lol
[16:47] <toad_> not that i would encourage people to get porn from freenet
[16:47] * greycat never understood the attraction to too-young people anyway.
[16:47] <PrototypeX29A> perhaps pics of her child
[16:48] <toad_> ugh
[16:48] <toad_> PrototypeX29A: he meant britney
[16:48] <NullAcht15> greycat: _I_ never understood the attraction to Britney Spears...
[16:49] <greycat> point.
[16:49] <toad_> it's called "celebrity"
[16:54] <NullAcht15> It's called masses of stupid people incapable or too afraid of thinking for themselves or developing their own tastes
[16:55] <NullAcht15> Not that I don't think that a free-minded individual could not develop a taste for her/her music
[16:55] * greycat tries to parse all the negatives in that last one
[16:55] <NullAcht15> -double negative
[16:56] <PrototypeX29A> she sings so nicely
[16:56] <NullAcht15> PrototypeX29A: I think she's squeaking and whining
[16:57] <PrototypeX29A> yes but she looks nice
[16:57] <PrototypeX29A> i guess she is as beatiful as all other whores, but we know her name
[16:57] <NullAcht15> sure did four years ago
[16:58] <nextgens> what about speaking about transactionnal databases and let britney on #freenet-chat ?
[16:58] <NullAcht15> nextgens: right
[16:58] <PrototypeX29A> sorry for bringing that up
[16:58] <NullAcht15> it's a stupid subject
[16:58] <NullAcht15> anyway
[16:58] <PrototypeX29A> yes it is, im sorry
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[17:11] <toad_> :)
[17:11] <toad_> nextgens: the java BDB looks good to me
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[20:16] <Carradine> Hello peeps
[20:21] <Carradine> I'm not really sure on what to do with Freenet, either i'll add some content which i have no idea of what or should i join the 0.7?
[20:28] <Carradine> Any ideas?
[20:34] <toad_> Carradine: hi
[20:34] <toad_> Carradine: you can do both :)
[20:34] <Carradine> I can?
[20:35] <Carradine> Explain.
[20:35] <Carradine> If you have the time.
[20:35] <Carradine> I see you are kinda busy chatting up some "babe" with your skills in #freenet-alpha :)
[20:37] <toad_> heh
[20:37] <toad_> there aren't any babes here :)
[20:37] <Carradine> Hehe
[20:37] <toad_> but it's good for the project to explain how stuff works to people
[20:37] <Carradine> Of course!
[20:37] <toad_> ok
[20:37] <toad_> well
[20:38] <toad_> if you have a reasonable amount of RAM there's no reason why you can't run both 0.5 and 0.7, separately
[20:38] <Carradine> Well, as i said before 1500MB.
[20:38] <toad_> right
[20:38] <toad_> you might as well thebn
[20:38] <toad_> then
[20:38] <toad_> good internet connection?
[20:38] <Carradine> 8M sym.
[20:38] <Tubbie> OMG i want that :D
[20:39] <toad_> :)
[20:39] <Carradine> Tubbie: Hehe.
[20:39] <Tubbie> *want
[20:39] <Carradine> My grandma got better tho :(
[20:39] <toad_> :)
[20:39] <Carradine> She has 100/10
[20:39] <toad_> Tubbie: do your nodes have anything else running on the same machine that might cause sudden CPU spikes?
[20:39] <Tubbie> my grandmother is on dial-up :)
[20:39] <toad_> my grandmother doesn't have a computer :|
[20:39] <toad_> neither of them
[20:40] <Tubbie> only a samba server, but the backup script was fucked up
[20:40] <Tubbie> fixed now
[20:40] <Tubbie> hopefully :)
[20:40] <toad_> my niece's grandmother, on the other hand, used to work as a webmaster...
[20:40] <Carradine> Cool
[20:40] <toad_> my niece's grandmother = my mum
[20:40] <Tubbie> ah :D
[20:40] <Carradine> He
[20:41] <Carradine> So how do i get .7 running?
[20:41] <Tubbie> see http://wiki.freenetproject.org
[20:43] <Carradine> I'm there...checking.
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[21:26] -dmwaters- {global notice} Hi all, that split was my fault. had to update the server's firewall, and it apparrently reset the connections on the server. I apologize for this, and thank you for using freenode!
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[21:31] [freenode-connect VERSION]
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[21:42] * danderson (n=dave@natulte.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
[21:43] * NullAcht15 (n=NullAcht@dslb-082-083-224-007.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #freenet
[21:43] * hobx (n=hobx@c83-248-105-188.bredband.comhem.se) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[21:44] * danderson (n=dave@natulte.net) has joined #freenet
[21:44] * sandos (n=sandos@tor/session/x-6cfd78c4bab96da0) Quit (Success)
[21:44] * sandos_ is now known as sandos
[21:46] * rara (n=zeboul@pha75-2-81-57-114-186.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #freenet
[21:46] <rara> hello
[21:46] <toad_> hello
[21:46] <Sugadude> Hola.
[21:46] * rara is now known as zeboul
[21:46] <toad_> Sugadude: you got a 0.7 node yet?
[21:47] <Sugadude> toad_: Not yet.
[21:50] <toad_> Sugadude: it's testnet at the moment
[21:50] <toad_> exclusively testnet
[21:51] <Carradine> Very exclusive.
[21:52] <toad_> but you can join it, for the bargain price of your earthly soul!
[21:52] <Carradine> Schh!!
[21:52] <Carradine> You were supposed to down play that soul thing!
[21:53] <Carradine> Im outta here...
[21:53] <Carradine> :P
[21:53] <Carradine> brb
[21:53] <Sugadude> I can't give you that, I already sold it.
[21:57] * _sleon (n=sleon@85.180.50.82) has joined #freenet
[21:58] <Carradine> Well, join anyway. :)
[21:58] <Carradine> We'll work something out, hehe..mohaha!
[22:01] <Carradine> Join #freenet-alphatest
[22:08] * sleon (n=sleon@85.180.50.156) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
[22:08] * _sleon is now known as sleon
[22:17] * Carradine (n=Carradin@dawn.najt.nu) has left #freenet
[22:23] * toad_ (i=toad@pdpc/supporter/active/toad-with-underline) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[22:51] * toad_ (i=toad@pdpc/supporter/active/toad-with-underline) has joined #freenet
[22:51] * ChanServ sets mode +o toad_
[23:23] * MrNaughty (n=mrnaught@S0106001125372935.ed.shawcable.net) has joined #freenet
[23:35] * sleon (n=sleon@85.180.50.82) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[23:51] * Eol (n=Eol@tor/session/x-dcd265775bb032c3) has joined #freenet
Irc logs of #freenet : 2008 2007 2006 2005
These logs were automatically created by FreenetLogBot on chat.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.