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[1:52] <Elly> whoot
[1:52] <Elly> my node doesn't suck
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[2:21] * Elly RNFs toad_
[2:23] <sandos> =)
[2:30] <Elly> Anthill Inside.
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[4:41] <Elly> grr
[4:41] <Elly> no inbounds, 23 outbounds
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[5:52] <mikeDOTd> the freenet-latest.tgz download is still slow as hell
[5:53] <mikeDOTd> 36kB in the last 3 minutes...
[5:53] <mikeDOTd> (total, not per second)
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[5:56] <mikeDOTd> you might as well take down the link
[5:56] <mikeDOTd> there we go
[5:56] <mikeDOTd> maybe sf.net is just sucking as usual
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[9:56] <nextgens> mikeDOTd> can you try to d/l it from http://downloads.freenetproject.org please?
[9:56] <nextgens> mikeDOTd> and report if it's better or not
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[12:16] <nextgens> hi
[12:16] <nextgens> toad_> here ?
[12:16] * nextgens is updating the website
[12:17] <nextgens> should I install a "cvsview" like application for the SVN repository or is https://emu.freenetproject.org/svn/ enough ?
[12:17] <nextgens> (no history, only HEAD is aviable)
[12:20] <nextgens> should we use emu and coralcache by default on the download page ?
[12:23] <nextgens> http://www.freenetproject.org/index.php?page=whatsnew
[12:23] <nextgens> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:14:37 +0000
[12:23] <nextgens> erf
[12:32] <nextgens> they aren't any snapshot for fcptools either
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[13:39] <nextgens> still no news from SF :-S
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[14:37] <sandos> nextgens: yes you should ;)
[14:37] <sandos> I would probably use it
[14:37] <sandos> websvn is the nice ;)
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[14:41] <toad_> hi folks
[14:41] * toad_ back
[14:41] <toad_> mikeDOTd: so get it from emu via coralcache
[14:41] <toad_> nextgens: did we update the links to point to emu/cc?
[14:42] <nextgens> no
[14:42] <toad_> nextgens: yes, and yes
[14:42] <nextgens> should I ?
[14:42] <nextgens> ok
[14:42] * nextgens has set up a bandwidth monitoring tool to "evalutate" the impact of changing it
[14:42] <nextgens> but it needs to run a bit if we'd like to compare
[14:43] <nextgens> :/
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[15:56] <nextgens> hi sanity :)
[16:01] <sanity> howdy
[16:12] <toad_> hi sanity
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[18:12] <toad_> any 0.7 testing volunteers? we have splitfiles working... please join #freenet-alphatest
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[18:15] <toad_> hmmm, this is interesting...
[18:15] <toad_> we don't seem to do a signature verification in the 0.5 code for SSKs
[18:16] <sandos> sounds bad?
[18:18] <toad_> i don't think we verify it at all actually... all we verify is that 1) the hash in the storables matches the data, and 2) the key is equal to the hash of the pubkey and the document type
[18:20] <toad_> @author Scott G. Miller
[18:20] <toad_> hmmmmmm
[18:23] <toad_> ahhh
[18:23] <toad_> we verify it in the Storables
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[18:28] <toad_> i don't suppose there's any way to derive a family of pubkeys and privkeys from a single pub and priv, without there being some obvious link between the two?
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[18:47] <toad_> does it take longer to create a signature, or to verify one?
[19:14] <nextgens> toad_> longer to sign
[19:14] <nextgens> as your pub key is often shorter than the private one
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[19:28] <toad_> Total time signing: 1075
[19:28] <toad_> Total time verifying: 1017
[19:29] <toad_> either way it takes around a millisecond to either sign or verify a sig
[19:29] <nextgens> not very revelent though :/
[19:29] <nextgens> relevent
[19:31] <nextgens> brb
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[19:34] <sleon> hoi
[19:42] <toad_> priv key is shorter than pub key
[19:42] <toad_> hi sleon
[19:42] <toad_> pub key is 415 bytes
[19:42] <sleon> hi
[19:44] <toad_> ok, so the full SSK metadata is 626 bytes
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[19:53] <toad_> where was i?
[19:53] <toad_> SSK metadata is 626 bytes
[19:56] <toad_> errr SSK headers are 626 bytes
[19:57] <toad_> CHK headers are 36 bytes
[19:57] <toad_> hmmm
[19:58] <toad_> this means my current header block size of 512 bytes is insufficient and should be raised to 1024 to accomodate SSKs...
[19:58] <toad_> also...
[19:59] <toad_> well at present we send the metadata on the DataReply... this makes sense...
[19:59] <nextgens> [20:42] <@ toad_> | priv key is shorter than pub key
[20:00] <nextgens> really ?
[20:00] <toad_> sure, pubkey is huge
[20:01] <toad_> 415 bytes
[20:01] <toad_> privkey is 23 bytes
[20:02] <toad_> hmmm
[20:02] <toad_> with a large payload, it takes 2x as long (~ 2ms) to verify as to sign
[20:03] <Elly> denial of service, yay
[20:05] <toad_> i don't think there's a credible DoS attack here actually
[20:05] <nextgens> but what will prevent an offender from sending garbage ?
[20:05] <toad_> even if we go for minimum size keys with only one key's worth of garbage
[20:06] <toad_> nextgens: it won't get far, that's the main thing
[20:06] <toad_> you can only DoS nodes you are directly connected to
[20:06] <toad_> and they will know it is you doing it
[20:06] <toad_> => not a very useful attack really
[20:06] <toad_> becomes more interesting with some of our anonymity enhancing techniques though
[20:07] <toad_> not useful with premix routing, but maybe with the random-tunnels thing
[20:08] <toad_> if the tunnels are shared (single output node for each node?)
[20:09] <toad_> no
[20:10] <toad_> it's not useful with tunnels either
[20:10] <toad_> because it'd be detected at the first hop
[20:10] <toad_> it might be viable with premix routing, if we create a new tunnel for each request
[20:10] <toad_> but that's probably not a good idea
[20:13] <toad_> well it might be
[20:14] <toad_> but anyway there are ways to beat it even then
[20:14] * Elly pokes toad_
[20:14] <toad_> so
[20:14] <Elly> less talk more code
[20:14] * toad_ pokes Elly
[20:15] <toad_> Elly: how big should SSKs be?
[20:15] <Elly> big?
[20:15] <Elly> why would I have any clue at all
[20:15] <Elly> you might as well ask a random person on the street
[20:15] <toad_> that's the topic ultimately being debated here
[20:16] <toad_> well ian says normal size (32kB), and that has some advantages
[20:16] <Elly> the topic is why I would have a clue?
[20:16] <toad_> however, if we make them really small, we can use them for streams
[20:16] <toad_> and we can cache loads of them
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[20:17] <Elly> what're the advantages of big?
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[20:18] <toad_> same size as everything else, more or less
[20:18] <toad_> fits in the same datastore
[20:18] <toad_> simplest probably
[20:18] <toad_> can put huge metadata in
[20:19] <toad_> we cannot generally include the target file though, because of the metadata/data separation...
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[20:19] <toad_> nextgens: any opinions?
[20:20] <toad_> 398 bytes payload (total = 1kB), 1024 bytes payload, 32768 bytes payload
[20:20] <toad_> seem to be the obvious options
[20:20] <Elly> then you have to decide based on what you want people to use it for
[20:20] <toad_> maybe we should have 32kB for now, and implement 1kB ones later if we need them for streams
[20:20] <Elly> if you prefer chat and small files (ie, HTML), streams
[20:21] <toad_> most freesites' metadata will probably fit inside 1kB
[20:21] * Elly shrugs
[20:21] <toad_> well, big files don't need SSKs
[20:21] <toad_> they only need CHKs
[20:21] <toad_> if that freesite includes a bunch of ISOs, then its metadata won't fit inside a 32kB block
[20:21] <toad_> if it includes a bunch of smallish splitfiles, it might
[20:22] <toad_> ISOs should probably be inserted separately anyway
[20:22] <toad_> to avoid having to duplicate the metadata every day!
[20:22] <Elly> no kind of file can fit inside 32kb except text
[20:22] <Elly> and really small-ass jpegs
[20:23] <Elly> and midis I guess
[20:23] <toad_> i don't have to do all the metadata support before FCP, because most of it is only needed for fproxy related stuff
[20:23] <toad_> Elly: right
[20:23] <toad_> frost needs basic insert/retrieve of SSKs and KSKs, afaics
[20:24] <Elly> just do something
[20:36] <toad_> which is more important, frost or fproxy?
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[20:46] <Elly> dunno
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[23:15] <Resonant> Um, the link on the main page for Linux/Unix install seems to be broken.
[23:15] <Resonant> Its like the source and binary packages got mixed up, or something
[23:15] <toad_> 1sec
[23:16] <Resonant> Thanks.
[23:16] <toad_> that's true
[23:16] <toad_> wierd
[23:17] <toad_> it's zip.bz2 !
[23:17] <Resonant> Yea
[23:17] * toad_ tells nextgens
[23:17] <Resonant> No. the file inside is a tar
[23:17] <Resonant> and when you open it
[23:17] <Resonant> it has folders like
[23:17] <Resonant> EDU
[23:17] <Resonant> (You have to rename the inside file)
[23:17] <toad_> file says it's a zip
[23:17] <Resonant> Oh.
[23:17] <Resonant> Hm.
[23:17] <toad_> but it is in fact a jar
[23:17] <Resonant> Oh.
[23:18] <toad_> i'll get nextgens to fix it
[23:18] <Resonant> Tahnks. :)
[23:18] <Resonant> Er
[23:18] <Resonant> Thanks
[23:18] <Resonant> All work and no sleep makes me a dull boy.
[23:18] <Resonant> :|
[23:18] <toad_> http://downloads.freenetproject.org.nyud.net:8090/
[23:19] <Resonant> Which one should I get?
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[23:21] <toad_> hmmm
[23:21] <toad_> doesn't seem there's a valid one at the moment
[23:22] <toad_> Resonant: he's here, it should be fixed soon
[23:22] <Resonant> Ok
[23:22] <Resonant> Thanks toad.
[23:22] <toad_> Resonant: otherwise, give me your email address, and i'll either tell you when it's fixed, or send you a jar
[23:22] <toad_> well a tg
[23:22] <toad_> z
[23:22] <Resonant> Ok
[23:23] <Resonant> Yea, I just reformatted my node
[23:23] <Resonant> and was like
[23:23] <Resonant> "Uh-oh"
[23:23] <Resonant> er, node machine
[23:23] * smains (n=smains@tor/session/x-f7a76c4744abb10e) Quit (SendQ exceeded)
[23:24] <toad_> :)
[23:24] <toad_> Resonant: if you want in on 0.7, join #freenet-alphatest
[23:24] <toad_> we have some code to play with, although it doesn't do anything like everything 0.5 does yet, and it has lots of bugs
[23:25] <Resonant> Sure, why not
[23:26] * nextgens is building a new stable snapshot
[23:29] <nextgens> Resonant> http://downloads.freenetproject.org.nyud.net:8090/freenet-stable-latest.tbz
[23:29] * louisb__ (n=lou@CPE0013f70131cb-CM0012c91006bc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #freenet
[23:29] <Resonant> Thanks!
[23:37] <Elly> my node is kicking ass and taking names
[23:43] <rah> new stable?
[23:46] <nextgens> well, the current stable-latest was broken by my fault
[23:47] <nextgens> latest build is 5106
[23:47] <nextgens> but the tar archive wasn't built properly
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