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[0:36] <Prototyp1X29A> re again
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[2:29] <Elly> toad_!
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[8:11] <PrototypeX29A> hi
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[8:23] <PrototypeX29A> half of the website aren't working :/
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[9:28] <nextgens> hi
[9:28] <nextgens> PrototypeX29A> ?
[9:28] <nextgens> PrototypeX29A> which url isn't ?
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[9:32] <PrototypeX29A> now it does, except the wiki
[9:39] <nextgens> and wich one wasn't ? :)
[9:40] <nextgens> I haven't done anything today :/
[9:43] <PrototypeX29A> the faq and the mailing list-section iirc
[9:46] <nextgens> both are hosted on a different server ^-^
[9:46] <nextgens> it might be your end ;)
[9:46] <PrototypeX29A> what my end is near?, i'm gonna die?
[9:47] <PrototypeX29A> oh sorry, to less sleep
[9:49] <nextgens> sorry for my bad english :$
[9:49] <nextgens> I'd say your endpoint
[9:49] <nextgens> your side ...
[9:52] <PrototypeX29A> it might be my english, thats bad
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[12:26] <TheSeeker> what's new in 60276?
[12:37] <toad_> i don't remember
[12:37] <toad_> check the cvs list
[12:38] <toad_> or use svn to find out (what revno updates the version number? get the diff for that revno... or just the message for it, which you should be able to see from the websvn.. i don't think we have a full websvn at the moment though...)
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[12:56] <TheSeeker> I looked for the version change update, but didn't find one... have only seen one 60276 node, so it might not be real...
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[13:13] <toad_> n/x-674081280242de79)
[13:13] <toad_> argh
[13:13] <toad_> sorry
[13:14] <toad_> i wonder if spamassassin can be persuaded to work without messing the mail server up again
[13:20] <toad_> another day, another 40 spams...
[13:20] <toad_> ok, lets debug...
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[14:17] <toad_> WTF?
[14:17] <toad_> nextgens: what's wrong with the SVN repo?!
[14:19] <toad_> it asks me for my password!
[14:19] <toad_> it's not supposed to do that...
[14:20] <toad_> maybe an eclipse problem...
[14:21] <toad_> hmmm
[14:21] <toad_> it worked
[14:21] <toad_> hmmmmmmm
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[14:38] <linyos> toad_: what's the repo url?
[14:48] <nextgens> hi
[14:48] <nextgens> linyos> https://emu.freenetproject.org/trunk
[14:48] <nextgens> linyos> https://emu.freenetproject.org/svn
[14:48] <nextgens> sorry
[14:49] <linyos> ah, thanks.
[14:59] <nextgens> TheSeeker> it doesn't exist
[14:59] <nextgens> 15:58:32?nextgens?~ ?svn ls https://emu.freenetproject.org/svn/tags/
[14:59] <nextgens> 5106/
[14:59] <nextgens> 60275/
[14:59] <nextgens> cvs-archive/
[15:00] <toad_> nextgens: is it your intention to create a tag for every Version bump?
[15:00] <nextgens> yes, it should IMHO
[15:00] <toad_> is that automatic?
[15:01] <nextgens> maybe we should create a /tags/unstable/... ...
[15:01] <nextgens> toad_> the snapshoot generation is automatic ...
[15:01] <toad_> nextgens: the 0.7 branch has new version numbers
[15:01] <nextgens> as soon as you commit something in /tags, it triggers the snapshot script
[15:02] <nextgens> toad_> IMHO we shouldn't "release" the unstable branche
[15:03] <nextgens> but that's an other debate :)
[15:03] <toad_> nextgens: so i have to create a new tag when i bump the stable Version?
[15:03] <nextgens> yes
[15:03] <nextgens> and remember that tags and copys are costless with svn ;)
[15:04] <toad_> ok
[15:05] <toad_> nextgens: the tags names may not be sensible because the 0.7 versions are independant at present
[15:05] <toad_> unless we want to add a 7 to the beginning of them and bring them back into the fold :)
[15:05] <toad_> probably we want to just make tags like 0.7-180
[15:06] * nextgens is not sure that the snapshoot script will work on the first try with .7
[15:06] <toad_> here's a question: 8MB of zeros will easily fit inside a 32kB block after compression, but we impose limits on what can fit in a single CHK in order to avoid major memory usage
[15:07] <toad_> so what do we do if somebody tries to insert 8MB of zeros?
[15:07] <nextgens> toad_> an 'official' release (a commit to /tags) can only be done by a "trusted" dev. ...only a few people can commit there
[15:07] <toad_> maybe the problem is the whole "decode/encode in ram" thing?
[15:07] <toad_> nextgens: which group name?
[15:07] <toad_> admins?
[15:08] <nextgens> yes
[15:09] <nextgens> we can create an other group if needed ... that's not a big deal
[15:09] <linyos> single CHKs are a bad idea in the first place. their probability of failure is too high.
[15:09] <nextgens> but ATM, only you, Ian and me can commit there
[15:09] <toad_> linyos: if it fits inside a single CHK, why not just insert it as one?
[15:09] <toad_> if it's popular it will survive
[15:10] <linyos> well, what is the failure rate for typical blocks? 5%, 10%?
[15:10] * toad_ thinks we need to drop this limit and decode/encode to buckets
[15:10] <linyos> according to the simulations, it has been non-negligible.
[15:10] <toad_> linyos: popular blocks have a much lower failure rate
[15:10] <toad_> e.g. the CofE DBR manifest
[15:10] <linyos> everything can't be popular.
[15:10] <toad_> yes but a single block file will usually be more popular than a splitfile block
[15:11] <linyos> not necessarily.
[15:11] <toad_> anyway i don't see what you'd have me do
[15:11] <toad_> we can't easily duplicate metadata
[15:11] <linyos> toad_: insert N copies.
[15:11] <toad_> short of having URIs which refer to two blocks
[15:11] <toad_> linyos: really, really, really long URIs
[15:11] <linyos> where N is chosen based on the estimated real probability of failure and the target probability.
[15:12] <linyos> URIs can be huge
[15:12] <linyos> software doesn't care
[15:12] <linyos> (i wonder what the rfcs say about uri length)
[15:13] <toad_> what about freesites?
[15:14] <linyos> ?
[15:14] <PrototypeX29A> there are rfcs?
[15:15] <linyos> anyway, if the real failure rate is 10%, the chance of three copies all failing is 0.1%
[15:15] <linyos> four copies: 0.01% &c
[15:16] <linyos> you'd probably want to download all three copies concurrently. (a) that keeps them all equally popular (b) it avoids latency in the event of failure
[15:17] <linyos> and one block is small, so 300% overhead is not bad.
[15:21] <linyos> There is no limit to the length of an URL. However, if you
[15:21] <linyos> want to use an URL as attribute of an HTML tag, then the
[15:21] <linyos> URL should be limited to 1024 characters. This limitation
[15:21] <linyos> has not much to do with the URL itself, but the SGML declaration
[15:21] <linyos> of HTML which limits the length of attribute values to 1024
[15:21] <linyos> characters.
[15:24] <linyos> hmm
[15:35] <linyos> really the thing to do is: serialize the splitfile metadata into the every key.
[15:35] <linyos> because blocks=1 is just a special case.
[15:35] <linyos> that is the simple solution, anyway.
[15:39] <linyos> if you were serious, you could serialize a fifty block splitfile into 1024 bytes. that's easily over a megabyte of data.
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[15:49] <linyos> maybe we should not have uris at all
[15:52] <linyos> you'd just paste a block of data into the "freenet subscription manager" page.
[15:52] <linyos> and that page would list all of the freesites you've subscribed to.
[15:53] <PrototypeX29A> and how do you subscribe?
[15:53] <PrototypeX29A> or link?
[15:54] <linyos> either (a) paste in the "key block" for a site that you get out of band; (b) click the "subscribe to this freesite" link in the "freenet status bar" frame.
[15:54] <linyos> (which would be a browser frame always present in a freenet browsing session.)
[15:55] <PrototypeX29A> i don't understand it, but what do i know :)
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[16:08] <linyos> we also have to figure out a site publishing interface
[16:09] <linyos> i wonder if toad has any ideas about that
[16:10] <linyos> i suppose that would be done the same way:
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[16:10] <linyos> the user types in the path to his site tree
[16:11] <linyos> and it gets added to the freenet page under a "list of my sites"
[16:11] <linyos> and automatically inserted
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[16:56] <toad_> hmmm
[16:56] <toad_> linyos: hmmm
[16:56] <toad_> linyos: we need hyperlinks
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[17:34] <linyos> freesite hyperlinks are relative
[17:36] <toad_> freesite hyperlinks go to other freesites
[17:36] <toad_> that's the whole point of the web
[17:38] <linyos> <a href="/links/foobarsite">Foo Bar's Site</a>
[17:39] <linyos> the actual key for foo bar's site is in the metadata
[17:39] <linyos> and the node sends a http redirect
[17:39] <linyos> (or displays a pretty "loading.. N blocks done" transition page.)
[17:44] <toad_> hmmm
[17:45] <toad_> could you send this idea to tech?
[17:45] <linyos> sure, i promise i'll do it by tomorrow
[17:45] <linyos> i have various other ideas about this too
[17:47] <linyos> one nice thing about that particular feature is that it keeps the size of the html down
[17:47] <linyos> when you have lots of links
[17:47] <linyos> to other sites
[17:54] <toad_> linyos: what about name clashes?
[17:55] <linyos> i'll explain it better in my email
[17:55] <linyos> along with the seventeen other ideas i have about client stuff
[18:01] <toad_> bbiab
[18:01] <toad_> bbl
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[18:48] <toad_> hmmm
[18:48] <toad_> 71 block transmits running
[18:48] <toad_> yet i started a splitfile insert with only 5 threads
[18:48] <toad_> and that was 40 minutes ago
[18:49] <toad_> and the last fetcher stopped at that point
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[18:51] <toad_> well, i can see one of the problems is simply that it didn't realize that it was finished...
[18:51] <toad_> but why all the block transmitters?
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[19:06] <toad_> hmmm
[19:06] <toad_> i think we have a thread leak in the block transmitter code
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