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[2:03] <toad_> http://forporn.ytmnd.com/
[2:03] <toad_> (you need the mplayer plugin on linux)
[2:09] <toad_> bbl zzz
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[9:04] <boshaus2> hey guys, is it bad that my node status says "Pooled threads running jobs: 123 (102.5%) [QueryRejecting most incoming requests]"
[9:04] <boshaus2> a lot of the time?
[9:14] <boshaus2> darn.. 29 idlers
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[11:10] <hobx> I'm not idle
[11:10] <hobx> I'm full of life
[11:12] <boshaus2> woot
[11:16] <hobx> Can't answer your question though
[11:16] <hobx> It is probably bad, more in a global than local sense.
[11:19] <boshaus2> I like to be globally friendly :)
[11:19] <boshaus2> I have plenty of bandwidth, HD space, CPU, and RAM though
[11:21] <boshaus2> and know why #freenet used to be on the nice IIP.. and instead of moving to another anonymous network, they go to freenode.. which doesnt' even support cloaking unless you pay them
[11:22] * sbc (n=sbc@83.72.201.52.ip.tele2adsl.dk) has joined #freenet
[11:28] <toad_> boshaus2: iirc you can get a custom cloak
[11:28] <toad_> well you can choose between some standard ones
[11:28] <toad_> even if you don't pay
[11:29] <toad_> quick poll: how important is it to have anonymous IRC over freenet 0.7?
[11:29] <toad_> (it's not particularly easy, that's the problem)
[11:30] * toad_ thinks its pretty important
[11:35] <toad_> boshaus2: we were always on freenode
[11:35] <toad_> but there was an iip proxy
[11:35] <toad_> iip died
[11:35] <toad_> and everyone moved to i2p
[11:42] <sbc> toad_: How hard would it be to implement irc over freenet after you release 0.7? Would that make it more dificult, or just move that hard part further down the road?
[11:43] <toad_> well, implementing it before 0.7 would make 0.7 far more functional, and increase the likelihood of Anonymous Cowards getting involved in development
[11:43] <toad_> and it would properly test the underlying mechanisms (1:1 and 1:many rendezvous at a key)
[11:44] <toad_> i'm no longer convinced that minimalism is helpful
[11:45] <boshaus2> ah, ok
[11:45] <toad_> and i don't know that it will be a big problem re money either
[11:45] <boshaus2> well, since there is already anonymous IRC over I2P, I woudln't say its that important if its that much work
[11:46] <toad_> well yeah but I2P is harvestable, and I2P has everything else too... generally speaking people install I2P and we never hear from them again
[11:47] <toad_> the fact of the matter is that traffic here, and on the mailing lists, has declined significantly... while people are still, to a degree, making third party apps and chatting on fuqid
[11:47] <toad_> part of that imho was that we lost iip
[11:49] <toad_> we CAN offer just about anything for 0.7; email, searching, arch (distributed CVS replacement), even sockets
[11:49] <toad_> it's a matter of priorities, and marketing
[11:50] <sbc> I would wote for e-mail first then.
[11:50] <toad_> well, splitfiles first :)
[11:51] <toad_> if I implement splitfiles, then web interface and FCPv2, ian will think it's ready and release it
[11:51] <toad_> and it will crash and burn
[11:51] <toad_> we do need some sort of beta period...
[11:52] <toad_> anyway there's loads of other stuff we need
[11:52] <toad_> e.g. easy darknet introductions
[11:52] <boshaus2> I'll do some betaing :)
[11:52] <toad_> SSKs, public key connection authentication
[11:52] <boshaus2> is the alpha working very well at all?
[11:52] <toad_> but I think we need to do the client stuff first
[11:52] <toad_> not all of it, but most of it
[11:53] <toad_> the alpha works, within its limitations
[11:53] <toad_> which are severe
[11:53] <boshaus2> heh
[11:53] <toad_> CHKs only, command line interface, 32kB block limit, no splitfiles
[11:54] <boshaus2> will the transition for apps such as fuqid and frost be fairly easy? or will it require a decent amount of work for those devs?
[11:54] <toad_> not sure
[11:54] <toad_> not a massive amount
[11:54] <toad_> but fortunately the frost devs are still alive despite popular opinion
[11:54] <boshaus2> yeah, its a shame freenet isn't bigger, I"m not sure why more people aren't into this sort of stuff
[11:55] <toad_> boshaus2: because they use i2p and tor
[11:55] <boshaus2> bback is pretty active on the frost board
[11:55] <toad_> AND because they don't come here
[11:55] <toad_> we have lots of 0.5 users
[11:55] <toad_> okay not millions, but lots
[11:58] <boshaus2> increased my datastore and in about 24hrs it's already picked up 1.3GB
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[12:53] <hobx_> I don't get it? Since when has freenet ever intersected with iip and tor? Aren't those point to point anonymity systems?
[13:14] <NullAcht15> afaik, iip and tor are both anonymizers that allow people to anonymously connect to classical TCP servers (which are also reachable through othre means)
[13:14] <NullAcht15> Should Freenet streams work in 0.7, it will be in direct competition with i2p, though
[13:16] <NullAcht15> It might even outperform it, because freenet 1:many streams work very much like multicast
[13:17] <NullAcht15> This might allow ordinary users with inexpensive computers and internet connections to host servers with a lot of very large channels
[13:19] <NullAcht15> Imagine something like freenode hosted on a single 600-dollars computer with a 40 dollars/month dsl connection
[13:25] <boshaus2> $40/dsl! what a rip off! ;) I get fiber optic for 45 :)
[13:26] <boshaus2> mmm
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[14:12] <NullAcht15> boshaus2: well, that depends a lot on where you're living. Here in Germany, 45 Euros for a DSL connection with flatrate is considered a good deal
[14:12] <NullAcht15> But I think you can see what I was getting at
[14:35] * sleon (n=sleon@e180052118.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #freenet
[14:35] <sleon> hi
[14:35] <sleon> any progress on freenet ?
[14:36] <greycat> I think Ian took the influx of money from his last donation-plea and threw a huge party, and toad's still sleeping it off.
[14:37] <sleon> greycat serious? :D
[14:38] <greycat> no, I don't think Matthew would do that. Not sure about Ian... ;-)
[14:39] <sleon> hrrrhrhr
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[14:43] <spaetz> connect
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[14:58] <toad_> iip is not point to point
[14:58] <toad_> but iip is dead, that's the whole problem
[14:58] <toad_> if you want anon IRC either you Tor to freenode, or you use i2p
[14:59] <toad_> if you use i2p, you'll probably forget about freenet
[14:59] <toad_> :|
[14:59] <sleon> toad_ hallo, any news on alpha?
[14:59] <sleon> toad_ nea
[14:59] <sleon> toad_ i2p is extremely slow
[14:59] <toad_> sleon: it is?
[14:59] <toad_> news to me!
[14:59] <sleon> i tryed it last time
[14:59] <sleon> yes
[14:59] <toad_> well
[15:00] <toad_> if you want to expand the 0.7 testnet, that'd be useful
[15:00] <sleon> they have severe problems now
[15:00] <toad_> i think all the stuff implemented so far is working at a low level
[15:00] <toad_> except maybe the streams
[15:00] <toad_> so it's not vital that we have logs for everyone
[15:00] <sleon> toad_ do we have public and subscribe?
[15:00] <toad_> a larger network on the other hand would be useful
[15:00] <toad_> we have a partial impl of pub/sub
[15:00] <sleon> and split files?
[15:00] <toad_> i'm not sure whether we want to do that yet
[15:01] <toad_> no, see my message to devl/tech
[15:01] <sleon> toad_ ok how can i join the network?
[15:01] <toad_> question of immediate priorities - splitfiles, or pub/sub? 1:1 and IRC, even though it's a fair effort?
[15:01] <toad_> sleon: /join #freenet-alphatest
[15:05] <sleon> toad_ please
[15:06] <sleon> toad_ can you answer me on freenet-alphatest?
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[15:09] <sleon> toad_ what is your ref?
[15:10] <toad_> my ref is available from the topic
[15:10] <toad_> isn't there anyone else around?
[15:10] <toad_> i'm about to go shopping
[15:11] <toad_> and you have to connect both ways
[15:11] <sleon> sorry
[15:11] <sleon> ok
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[15:12] <toad_> sleon: you are connected to toad1
[15:12] <toad_> bbl
[15:12] <sleon> k
[15:41] <sleon> ????
[15:49] <sleon> hi
[15:49] <sleon> alll
[15:49] <sleon> freenet:PSK@U3q1DmF~okhwA8qEkno8R7uRLoE,GRFV3zU6b9bSmviwotXtSHRL6xDp7nWiVVZp5Qr5VdA,AAE/test
[15:49] <sleon> join pleaze
[16:06] <sleon> anyone ?
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[17:01] <Naf> hi
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[19:04] <toad_> ih
[19:13] <toad_> anyone here?
[19:16] <hobx_> I am
[19:16] <toad_> :)
[19:16] <hobx_> I trying the algorithm on the graph from thew PGP Web of trust
[19:17] <toad_> cool!
[19:17] <toad_> does it work?
[19:17] <hobx_> Well, on the Live journal data it didn't work at all
[19:17] <toad_> interesting
[19:17] <hobx_> on the pgp data it seems to work better, but perhaps not as good as with orkut
[19:18] <hobx_> certainly much better than LJ though.
[19:18] <hobx_> 4000 nodes with a mean degree of ~40 gave 91% success with 120 steps and a mean of 16 steps
[19:19] <toad_> what success at 16 hops?
[19:19] * hobx_ should look at more things. Like median steps, which would look much better
[19:19] <toad_> did you try a wider orkut spidering?
[19:19] <hobx_> no
[19:20] <toad_> do you have any idea what the difference is between LJ and orkut?
[19:20] <hobx_> Since the orkut data is not really legit, I don't think I can publish it.
[19:20] <hobx_> the LJ data seemed VERY clustery.
[19:20] <hobx_> Like clusters of 50 people where everybody knew everybody
[19:21] <hobx_> But I'm not sure. It seems to work worse than completely random data though...
[19:21] <toad_> i don't suppose you have any idea re FEC algorithms?
[19:22] <hobx_> that isn't my field
[19:23] <toad_> ok
[19:23] <hobx_> I'm running a 16000 sample from the PGP data now, but I don't have much hope for that. The mean degree is too small.
[19:23] <toad_> well LJ isn't really what we want.. it's "people whose blogs i listen to"
[19:23] <toad_> the mean degree is too small?
[19:24] <hobx_> toad_: Except in the LJ data, I used only connections that are symmetric
[19:24] <hobx_> meaning "blogs I listen to who listen to me"
[19:25] <hobx_> I still think perhaps it has to do more with common interests and less with trust though.
[19:25] <hobx_> Though I don't know what LJ is exactly, I have never read anything there.
[19:27] <hobx_> The mean degree is too small (18.72), and the number of people with small degree is too large (there are only 29,000 in the WoT data, and many have just one edge)
[19:27] <toad_> i thought low degree was good?
[19:27] <toad_> so the number of people with low degree in the orkut search isn't too low?
[19:28] <toad_> i would have expected it to be really high...
[19:30] <hobx_> Remember how I constuct the sets
[19:30] <hobx_> I start with somebody, then I keep adding the neighbor with the most neighbors already in the set.
[19:31] <hobx_> or rather "the node with the most neighbors in the set"
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[22:31] <toad_> hobx: so the problem is that you used by LJ data, rather than writing your own spider to fetch it in the correct order?
[22:31] <toad_> or adapting mine to do so?
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[23:42] <hobx> toad_: No
[23:42] <hobx> I got a full dump of the LJ data AFAIK
[23:42] <hobx> it is fucking huge, I then used the same algorithm to create subsets I could work on.
[23:42] <hobx> Same deal.
[23:51] <toad_> how did you get a full dump?
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Irc logs of #freenet : 2008 2007 2006 2005
These logs were automatically created by FreenetLogBot on chat.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.